Talk:Sabra and Shatila massacre

Restructuring

The subsections U.N. condemnation, MacBride commission and Israeli Kahan commission are listed under the section "Postwar testimonies by Lebanese Forces operatives" despite having nothing (or very little) to do with the testimonies. I propose to restructure the article to move the postwar testimony paragraph to a subsection of "Role of various parties" and to rename the section about the UN condemnation and the two mentioned commissions to something along the gist of "International Response and Investigations".

Sharon libel suit

I think it is worth mentioning that Sharon pursued a similar suit against Time in an Israeli court, which was settled by both parties with compensation which was reported as substantial ("Neither party would disclose the amount of the payment, but the Israeli radio reported that the figure was substantial" - https://www.nytimes.com/1986/01/23/nyregion/time-magazine-and-sharon-settle-the-libel-suit-he-filed-in-israel.html).

Edit request: Number of victims in the sidebar from 460 to 700

• What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):

  −

  sidebar: 460[2] to 3,500[3] (number disputed)

  +

  sidebar: 700 to 3,500[3] (number disputed)

• Why it should be changed:

The change was proposed in Talk:Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre#Are_there_modern_sources_that_state_the_number_of_casualties_as_low_as_460?

The main argument is the source cited for the 460 figure casts doubt on it [1]. Today it does not seem to be any support for the accuracy of this figure.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

[1] https://archive.org/details/israelslebanonwa00zeev/page/282/mode/2up

Bowad91017 (talk) 09:32, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done Skitash (talk) 10:06, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

References

Edit request: added requested page number and estimated values

• What I think should be changed:

−

Bayan Nuwayhed al-Hout in her Sabra and Shatila: September 1982[74][page needed] gives a minimum consisting of 1,300 named victims based on detailed comparison of 17 victim lists and other supporting evidence, and estimates an even higher total.

+

Bayan Nuwayhed al-Hout in her Sabra and Shatila: September 1982[74][page 296] gives a minimum consisting of 1,300 named victims based on detailed comparison of 17 victim lists and other supporting evidence, and estimates an even higher total of 3500.

• Why it should be changed:

The page number was requested, also added the estimated amount to be less vague.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):*

Here is a screenshot of the page https://pasteboard.co/4brdZhsXT8gX.png

Bowad91017 (talk) 09:23, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

References

 Done ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 21:06, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

typo: Germanos' report says twenty children

• What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):

−

Germanos' report determined that 460 people had been killed (including 15 women and 12 children.)

+

Germanos' report determined that 460 people had been killed (including 15 women and 20 children.)

You could also add information from Bayan Nuwayhed al-Hout's book but it's not necessary:

• named, missing (persumed dead): "32 females (women and young girls)" p. 292
• female victims named, confirmed dead: 201 (p.292)
• for children she says "In List 3, age is only sometimes mentioned: for 585 victims out of a total of 906. Of these, children account for 108 (18.46%)." (p. 292)

List 3 are those named and confirmed dead.

• Why it should be changed:

typo. The linked source says twenty but an editor must've misread tweleve.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

Bowad91017 (talk) 12:50, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

• female victims named, confirmed dead: 201 (p.291 not p. 292). sorry. "in List 3, they totalled 201 (22.18%)."

Bowad91017 (talk) 12:52, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

References