Talk:Wheat beer

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Wheat beer styles source[edit]

I'd like to cite this article - http://beer.about.com/od/wheatbeer/a/WheatGuide.htm - as a source for the various styles of wheat beer. Breddings (talk) 19:13, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not cite your own self published articles on Wikipedia, it constitutes link promotion and original research. thanks - MrOllie (talk) 19:38, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
From No original research -
"This policy does not prohibit editors with specialist knowledge from adding their knowledge to Wikipedia, but it does prohibit them from drawing on their personal knowledge without citing reliable sources. If an editor has published the results of his or her research in a reliable publication, the editor may cite that source while writing in the third person and complying with our neutrality policy. See also Wikipedia's guidelines on conflict of interest."
and from Conflict of interest -
"Editing in an area in which you have professional or academic expertise is not, in itself, a conflict of interest. Using material you yourself have written or published is allowed within reason, but only if it is notable and conforms to the content policies. Excessive self-citation is strongly discouraged. When in doubt, defer to the community's opinion."
My work at About.com is not "self-published" in the same way a blog is, which I'm assuming is what you mean. I am a recognized expert with a specialized knowledge as described in the excerpts I copied above. Could you take a second look at the article and see if you don't think it supports the Wikipedia entry?Breddings (talk) 20:00, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology[edit]

Is it not the case that the the term "Weißbier" comes from the fact that the words wheat and white are etymologically related? So it would be so called not because the beer itself is light but because wheat is white... can someone confirm this, as I'm not entirely sure of this (so I've not changed it myself)? --rdd. (talk) 20:44, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A Dutch friend of mine told me that it's because the beer is actually whiter (they'd say 'witbier' I think), like Hoegaarden, while the Germans, whose beer is more amber, say both weissbier and weizen - which is referring to 'wheat'; still I think there's also a play on words going on. Probably different people have always meant different things. Wikidea 09:28, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just thought I'd chime in on this, as a fluent German speaker. The words wheat and white are etymologically related in English, yes, and are in fact as well in German. The German word for wheat, "Weizen," is very similar to "Weiß" or white. You can order it as a "Weißbier," for example in a restaurant, but you would normally ask for a "Weizen." On many beer bottles, it is also the case that it says "Weizen" instead of "Weißbier." "White beer" is somewhat of a mistranslation, as it is a contracted form of "Weizen + Bier" (as Germans contract nouns to form a compound word) as opposed to a contracted form of "Weiß + Bier," although it looks more like the latter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.3.50.110 (talk) 14:50, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wheat Wine[edit]

Wheat Wine, though it has only come to be known recently as a style of beer in its own right, is now recognized by both BJCP and GABF, and warrants recognition on this page. This page is a good resource: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/American-Style_Wheat_Wine_Ale 72.187.133.23 (talk) 21:45, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Negro?[edit]

Uh, does this say what I think it says (Serving section)? If so, should immediately be amended, clearly not the correct term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.67.58.136 (talk) 01:03, 19 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reinheitsgebot[edit]

Regarding this edit. I don't understand the point in stressing that Gose does not “comply with the Reinheitsgebot”. The whole issue is rather confused but what is usually meant by “Reinheitsgebot” is a putative ban on beers containing anything else than barley, water and hops, dating back to some edict by the Duke of Bavaria. If you take the Reinheitsgebot in this sense, none of the wheat beer follow it because they contain… wheat (and Gose is not concerned because it is made outside of Bavaria).

In fact, it was simply never forbidden to brew top-fermented beer with other ingredients than water, hops and barley malt in the whole of Germany. Several such beers have existed in various places for a very long time. Therefore, if you take Reinheitsgebot to mean a modern ban on additives in beer then none of the top-fermented beer are concerned because the law always provided exceptions for them.

At the end of the day, all the talk about “the Reinheitsgebot” has a lot more to do with popular myths and marketing than with history or regulation. If we must add something to this sentence then it would be much better to stick to the facts and note that coriander is an unusual ingredient for German beers. In the meantime, I removed this confusing side note again. GL (talk) 11:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC) [reply]

The Reinheitsgebot didn't apply to anywhere outside Bavarai until 1906, whether it was top- or bottom-fermented. After that date it applied to the whole German Empire. Of course, after WW II it didn't apply the DDR, where Leipziger Gose was brewed. After reunification, the Reinheitsgebot was applied to the DDR. Only local specialities like Gose were exempt and that is still the case. Hence what I wrote was totally appropriate. And I'm reinstating it.Patto1ro (talk) 00:15, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well that's the point, there has always been exemptions and these exemptions include all wheat beer (they use wheat!) and in fact all top-fermented beer (some do not use anything else than barley malt and hops but the law always allowed other malts, sugar, and sugar-based colorings). The only thing that resembles the original “Reinheitsgebot” is the first point in this law but it does not apply to top-fermented beer (§ 9 Abs. 2) and local authorities can grant exceptions for a number of reasons (§ 9 Abs. 7). Basically, the “Reinheitsgebot” applies to all beers except the beers to which it does not apply. That's a completely non-sensical way to present the law. In any case, if it's really necessary to get into these details, it should be done in the article on Gose, not here. GL (talk) 09:20, 29 February 2012 (UTC) [reply]
Also, if you really think this is all incorrect, maybe we should start by revising the Reinheitsgebot article because it basically says the same thing (and does a good job at clarifying the issue). GL (talk) 09:29, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, you're still getting it wrong. Wheat beer can and does adhere to the Reinheitsgebot. The law was changed a few hundred years ago to allow wheat beer. The Biersteuergezetz IS the effing Reinheitsgebot in modern German law. Take a look at a Label of Weihenstephan Hefeweizen: "Gebraut nach dem Reinheitsgebot" it says. Are you telling me that they are lying? If I were to start correcting all the rubbish in wp articles I'd be here foreverI'm remembering now why I stopped editing wp articles.Patto1ro (talk) 10:30, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think looking at beer labels is a useful way to write a Wikipedia article on the topic but what I am saying since the beginning is that “Gebraut nach dem Reinheitsgebot” is pure marketing-speak (incidentally, it would be interesting to know when this type of things appeared on beer labels, I have seen some references to the phrase being protected since 1996 but couldn't find any solid source on that). It is mostly used to give the (misleading) impression that beers using other ingredients are somehow inferior. Concretely, it is simply a reference to what as become the traditional way to brew beer in part of Germany and does not mean there is a law of that name with which one could comply or not comply.
Still, it does make sense to use that name for the Bavarian edict forbidding anything else than barley malt and hops but it has never been the only definition of “Bier” in what is currently Germany. This “Reinheitsgebot” simply ceased to be the law a long time ago. It was replaced by new rules that provided for a number of exceptions (including the use of other malts, sugar and colorings for top-fermented beers and more recently the possibility to grant other local exceptions).
If however for you “Reinheitsgebot” simply means “the current German law” (technically, the part about the ingredients is not in the Biersteuergesetz itself anymore), then of course Gose also complies with it (namely through § 9 Abs. 7). It is arbitrary to slice it, confuse the rules for top-fermented and bottom-fermented beers, ignore the fact that other top-fermented beers can use sugar and sugar-based colorings and leave the impression that some beers don't comply with the law.
The fact is beers brewed in Germany follow the local law, which provide a set of rules for bottom-fermented beers modeled after the historical Bavarian law, another set of rules for top-fermented beers that does allow some additives and cereals that were historically forbidden and a third one for specialty beers, on the basis of specific exemptions. The article Reinheitsgebot also provide some historical background on this law and could include more details on the “Gebraut nach dem Reinheitsgebot” predicate as a marketing tool. All that is completely factual, no matter what your opinion is about wheat beer. I really don't understand the point in stressing everywhere what follows or does not follow the “Reinheitsgebot”. We can mention it in articles about beers that do use the label but why put it everywhere?
Note that I am not asking to write that “Gose complies with the Reinheitsgebot” or any such silliness either. My point is that it's debatable and mostly irrelevant in this article. GL (talk) 14:18, 29 February 2012 (UTC) [reply]

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