Talk:Starflight

Untitled

Need to add sections about Starflight 2 and Starflight III

Reid 08:48, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Is the link to Greg Johnson correct?

Andete 09:12, 2004 Dec 23 (UTC)

Screenshot

What platform is the screenshot from? It's too nice to be from the DOS version. — Frecklefoot | Talk 18:41, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

And out of all seriousness, it's too ugly for the Genesis version. Silly me, the caption says Atari ST and Amiga.

Looks exactly like the DOS version to me. --HunterZ 21:45, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Circular Link

The link to Binary Systems redirects back to the Starflight page. Should it be removed? --HunterZ 03:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Commodore 64 Release Date

I got the MS-DOS EGA 16-color version for Christmas in either '86 or '87 (the first store-bought PC game I ever owned). I'd have to dig out the box (which I still have) and check to be sure, but I seem to remember mentions of the C64 version in the booklet describing how to run the game (a fold-out book with green text on white cardstock I think). In light of this, I'm surprised to see MobyGames' listing the C64 release date as 1989: http://www.mobygames.com/game/starflight/release-info - can anyone confirm this? --HunterZ 21:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Though I don't recall the exact date, the Commodore 64 version of Starflight, I can confirm that it was released in 1989. The C64 was actually in the works before the IBM PC version began; development lasted approximately one month before Binary Systems & Electronic Arts decided to shift 100% to the IBM platform. I don't see how there could possibly have been any mention of how to run the C64 version in 1986/1987. --Kercso 20:25, 10 August, 2010

Wow, right from the horse's mouth. My memory must have been bad! --HunterZ (talk) 01:07, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

"We"?

Who is this "we" that is constantly referred to in the article?

Good question. It looks to me like the Races section in the article may have been plagarized verbatim from somewhere else without credit. I've added a citation needed tag, but personally I wouldn't object if someone wants to rewrite or even remove that section. It really doesn't come across as very encyclopedic anyways. --HunterZ 15:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The races section is verbatim from genesis version of the games manual pages 103-105.

External Link

I updated the fan-site link to the most complete and frequented Starflight resource I have been able to find. If anyone feels that there is a better one, feel free to update it. Crescentnebula 19:10, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Open-Endedness

"Starflight is widely regarded within the game industry as being one of the games responsible for pioneering the open-ended gameplay featured in modern games such as the Grand Theft Auto series."

I deleted this, because the same definition applies to all RPG-like games of the time: Ultima, Elite, Alternate Reality, etc. GTA is a much less linear style of game in comparison. It isn't clear the Starflight is "widely regarded" as a precursor to modern open-ended games in any case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.134.226.55 (talk • contribs)

Good move. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

the screenshot

the screenshot IS from the dos version, but not from starflight.. somebody uploaded a picture from starflight 2 (see www.mobygames.com)

No, it is from Starflight. Look at the date in the picture. It shows 4620, the time Starfligt took place. Starflight II plays 19 years later at 4639. -- Bhaak 07:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

category for games

Category:Star Trek-style starship simulators may be about to be deleted. I understand some of the concerns raised, though. At some point in the future, perhaps we can think about some alternate category names, to group together all games like this one, which have some form of plotline, and unique game depth, and which create some sort of in-game type of "universe" with a whole set of interactions. this seems (to me, at least, IMHO) to mark a significant subgroup in this genre. feel free to weigh in at the cfd discussion, by the way. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:35, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

SFX and music

Did Starflight have sound effects? Did it have music? Maybe I just missed it, but I didn't see mention either way in the article.

ScooterJohn (talk) 18:20, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

• The PC version of the game did not have any music other than that played in the opening screen. This theme is, however, the one most strongly identified with the game. No version of the game had music during gameplay. There were some PC speaker quality sound effects in all versions.

Some fixes

I've fixed a few things...

- The Captain isn't necessarily the Player Character; I've changed it to be just another of the positions to be filled.

- Reworked the species listing. Also, there are only five races available for crew selection: Human, Velox, Elowan, Thrynn, and Android. (For some reason the article said six.)

- Referenced Starport by name instead of just as "Interstel HQ".

- Fixed some small spelling errors and rewrote a few sentences here and there.

The "ATV" was called the "Terrain Vehicle" in the DOS version I'm familiar with (and it also could not be upgraded at Starport, only replaced if lost), but this might be different in the other versions so I've left it alone.

Jesternaut (talk) 05:11, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I wrote that stuff about the ATV. I've only played the megadrive version, so its important to clear this up. This article focuses on the original release, so your suggestions are good ones. Johnnyfog (talk) 12:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Your rewrites look great to me. And as far as I'm concerned, the Sega version has just as much of a place in the article as the original DOS version, so long as the unique aspects of each are made clear. I'd offer to help parse it all out, but I have (literally) about five minutes of experience on the Sega version and even that was... holy cow, more than a decade ago. (I'm getting old.) The DOS version, on the other hand, I still enjoy re-playing from time to time to this day, despite its primitiveness -- hooray for DOSBox! Jesternaut (talk) 06:50, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

This article could really benefit from some sources. If you recall any magazines or websites mentioning this game, you might was to post a reference. Johnnyfog (talk) 13:24, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

References to Fan Projects Added in "Legacy" Section

I am one of the project team members on the Starflight III Project. This morning I added a few references to major fan-based projects I was aware of, as well as links leading to those projects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Capi3101 (talk • contribs) 14:54, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Colonizable Planets?

First off, I brought that subject up because I was getting incorrect info and wanted to see if yours was better, which it has been. You are more precise, even though you don't need all the artifacts you may as well put them all up. Also I've noticed you have a colonizable planet in orbit 5 of system 149,133. I have tried this planet luckily that was my first uh oh so I was only fined 100 MU but it is uninhabitable due to violent storms the planet in orbit 4 is O.K.. I will update the planets conditions as I explore also I am talking about StarFlight on Sega Genises. Or it has some relation to it. Mystickknight (talk) 18:38, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Reference material

Several reviews of Starflight may be located at amr.abime.net. You might also check Archive.org's Computer Magazine Archive, which hosts numerous publications from around the time this game was released. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 15:48, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the links! I'll take a look at those soon. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 21:26, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Starflight/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Odie5533 (talk · contribs) 14:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

I will be reviewing this GAN as my first GA Review under the guidance of User:Hahc21. --Odie5533 (talk) 14:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Comments in italics are not required for GA and are my additional thoughts on the article.

Asessment

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Criteria 6a/b

 Done The screenshots appear to be the full resolution of the game and if so should be reduced (Wikipedia:Non-free content#Image_resolution). Additionally, the NFURs claim "To show the graphical style of the game", but their use in the article does not support this purpose. The images should mention (in the article and in the NFUR) that they are also used to show the interface, since for this game the interface is separable from the graphics and could be cropped out, depending on how you want to use the image. The images aren't well-integrated into the article either, and should be to avoid being decorative. If you can, it would be interesting to directly show and discuss the changes from the original to the Sega version. See Desktop Dungeons or Chivalry: Medieval Warfare.

Criteria 1b

•  Done The lead should mention the legacy of the game and its sequel. The platforms it was released on should also be mentioned elsewhere in the article and not just in the lead.

Criteria 2

• Lead
  •  Done This sentence is not cited: Originally developed for DOS and Tandy, it was later released for the Amiga, Atari ST, Macintosh and Commodore 64.
  •  Done This appears to be partly original research re: Star Trek. The story eventually expands to resemble a space opera in the style of Star Trek.

• Gameplay
  • Y This line does not appear to verify to p. 1: The player begins inside a space station orbiting a planet called Arth.
    •  Done p. i does not say Arth is a planet or that you are actually on the station when the game begins.
  • YI was unable to verify this line in the reference given: Eventually, a larger goal of finding out why stars in the region are going nova and stopping the process, if possible, comes to the forefront.
    •  Done A nova is a specific phenomena. The Escapist article talks about a Crystal Planet that causes deadly solar flares.
  • YThis line claims the ship starts with only engines, but the source says it also includes a supply of endurium. You could change it to say the ship is equipped with basic engines, or else add that it has endurium as well. The ship is initially equipped only with engines.
    •  Done The cited page does not appear to say what endurium is.
  •  Done I could not verify this line to the IGN about page: It can be modified into a warship through the purchase of weapons, armor, and shields.
  •  Done These probably shouldn't be capitalized: Navigator, Science Officer, Engineer, Communications Officer, Doctor, and Captain
  •  Done You may want to explain what a skill is because saying "relevant skill" is not clear: A crewman's proficiency is determined by the relevant skill:
  • Y These sentences are not referenced:
    • Y Skills are increased through training, which must be purchased. One crewman can man multiple posts, but different species have different maximum skill levels.
      •  Done p. 6 does not say that skills are purchasable. I don't see anywhere on p. 7 that it says a crewman can man multiple posts.
    •  Done As is the case in outer space, a heads-up display monitors the Terrain Vehicle's current fuel level, which is replenished by simply re-entering the ship. If the Terrain Vehicle is destroyed or irrevocably lost, a fee is automatically deducted for a replacement.
    •  Done and can take damage to its hull, crew members, and individual components.
  •  Done I was unable to verify this sentence: The hub of the game is Starport, headquarters of the Interstel corporation, and a space station which orbits the planet Arth.
  • Y In this sentence, I was unable to verify that you can buy minerals and Endurium. If you want, you could cite the game itself if the trade screen shows you can buy minerals and Endurium. Just cite that the information can be found in the Trade Depot module on Starport (if indeed it can). Here players sell their finds, buy minerals and Endurium, recruit and train crew members, and upgrade parts of the ship.
    •  Done Commodities may include Endurium and minerals, but it does not say this in the manual on the page cited.
  •  Done Terrain Vehicle should be capitalized. the ship is equipped with a terrain vehicle that the crew can use to look for minerals and life-forms.
  •  Done I was unable to verify this clause. It seems to come from p.2 of the Escapist article. The main source of income is planet exploration
  •  Done I was unable to verify the facts in this sentence. The closest fact I found was that the captain recommends planets for colonization (to Interstel, I assume). The most lucrative source is finding planets suitable for human life. If the science officer's analysis shows a planet to be within acceptable parameters, the player can have the captain log a planet for colonization.
  • Y I was unable to verify that you can scan for minerals. Additionally, p. 25 states that only lifeforms can be scanned. allowing the crew to drive across the terrain and scan for minerals.
    •  Done I could not find that it says there are icons for the lifeforms, only that you can pick them up from a list if they are near your vehicle: The area around the Terrain Vehicle displays icons for minerals, lifeforms, and alien ruins.
  •  Done I was unable to verify this sentence: Travel via fluxes cuts down significantly on fuel costs and travel time, though it causes all but the most accomplished navigators to lose their bearings.
  •  Done I was unable to verify this sentence: Aliens may be cautious, friendly, or hostile; the player can influence alien reactions by arming weapons and shields or hailing the aliens with varying communication styles.
  •  Done I was unable to verify this sentence: Alien ships can be also scanned for information.
  •  Done I was unable to verify this clause: Combat occurs in real time
  • Y The game seems to call these lasers and missiles, not phasers and photon torpedoes (Star Trek lingo?). How the missiles can be avoided is not explained on p. 11. Sentence also needs to be recast to or missiles that are avoidable depending .... and involves firing weapons, either instantly damaging phasers or avoidable photon torpedoes depending on how far away enemy ships are, and what the player's ship is armed with.
    •  Done I could not verify this sentence: The weapon used depends on how far away enemy ships are and what the player's ship is armed with.
    •  Done You still refer to the missiles as photon torpedoes. Are they called photon torpedoes somewhere?

• Story
  •  Done This quote needs a citation, probably to the game itself: who regard all "air-breathers"
  •  Done This reference does not appear reliable: http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9062575
  •  Done Ancients aren't mentioned before this, so the revelation is more confusing than anything: These beings are revealed to be the ancients.

• Development
  • Y These sentences are not referenced:
    • Y Aside from graphical upgrades, there are a few changes to the overall game. In addition to modifications made to the ship itself, several upgrades can be purchased for the terrain vehicle—renamed the TV—including pontoons and snow treads, for transport over water and snow, respectively. The Shimmering Ball, an artifact which acted as a cloaking device in the original DOS version, has no such ability in the remake; instead, it automatically scans alien ships when encountered.
      •  Done The CVG source doesn't really compare the two versions, not even to say that the graphics were upgraded. Also, I think the TV is just an abbreviation that CVG uses and has not actually been renamed. I think the safest thing here is to say that there are graphical differences and you could say that the Sega version includes upgrades to the Terrain Vechicle that allow amphibious mining. Aside from graphical upgrades, there are a few changes to the overall game. In addition to modifications made to the ship itself, several upgrades can be purchased for the Terrain Vehicle—renamed the TV—including equipment to allow amphibious mining.

• Reception and legacy
  •  Done Remove the quotes around spiritual, and remove that the other game is more popular. Also, the sentence must be recast since it is not clear that Star Control 2 is the spiritual successor to Starflight rather than Starflight 2: Starflight spawned a sequel, Starflight 2: Trade Routes of the Cloud Nebula, and was called the "spiritual" predecessor to the more popular, but similarly themed Star Control 2.
  •  DoneThe source does not claim it is a sequel nor that there was an issue with naming rights: An unofficial sequel released without the Starflight name due to the inability of the designers to gain the rights to the title from Electronic Arts is the lesser-known Protostar, which was created by Ybarra.

Discussion

Thanks for your comments so far, and thanks for taking the time to do a thorough review. I have a few responses to some of the items above. On the Sega bit, I know next to nothing about that version, and so far haven't found out much about it, beyond what was in the article before I started working on it. There's a good review at sega-16.com, but previous consensus has been that it's not a reliable source. On your second comment for criteria 2 about the "larger goal" sentence, that is on the second page of the source. On the skills part, I skill is wikilinked, but I added a little more to make it clearer what the relationship between a skill and a duty is. I think I've addressed everything else in the second set of comments, although I am still thinking about the image situation as well. Cheers. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 05:43, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

I found a few other sources, some which deal with the Sega version:

• CU Amiga #1 (Mar. 1990) pp. 78-79 - two page guide to the Amiga version
• Computer and Video Games Magazine #119 (Oct. 1991) pp. 90-91 - two page review of the Sega version
• Joypad Magazine #1 (Oct. 1991) pp. 44-45 - two page review of the Sega version. The magazine is in french.

If you want copies of these articles, please let me know and I can email them to you. --Odie5533 (talk) 06:57, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Oops, I jumbled a few pages when I was doing referencing last night. They should be fixed now. As for the page 7 reference, it's "The Captain" section I'm using, which says, "Also, if any of your crew should be killed, the next most capable crewmember will take over the dead crewmember's functions." For the page i ref, the page is titled "Starport Central, Arth Orbital Station", and in the main text it says, "Fill the cargo pods with minerals and bring them back to Starport." I don't think combining those bits of information is original research, but I went ahead and added page 8, which reads, "The Starport is your stepping stone to the universe, the place where each new adventure begins and ends." If you could e-mail the last two articles, that would be great. I'll work them into the Sega section and rewrite it. It's another bit that is mostly unchanged from when I started working on the article. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 13:40, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

I have gone through the gameplay section and listed what I have found that I could not verify, but there appear to be a large number of unverifiable statements in the article. At this point in the review I feel I must request that you check the facts in the rest of the article again. Please let me know if you can do this in the next few days, and again if/when you are done. --Odie5533 (talk) 03:18, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict)On the part about logging planets, the pages I referenced show all the possible values for planetary conditions, and bold the ones that are compatible with colonization. I've now referenced an earlier set of pages that sources the abilities of the captain and science officer. On the part about minerals and Endurium, that is referenced on page 9, where it says, "At the Trade Depot you can buy or sell commodities".

A number of the other items, such as being charged a fee for a new Terrain Vehicle, are not mentioned in the manual, I'm realizing now, but are described in detail in notices the player receives in the Operations module at Starport. I'll jump into the game and find quotes to pull from the notices for references, hopefully tonight.

Something else I've realized is that there is a good bit of redundancy in the gameplay section. When I came upon this article a couple years ago, it was a pretty big mess. Rewriting it has been a pain—a labor of love!—but a pain nonetheless. I'll need to fiddle around with it a bit more, because at least one of the items you listed ("The hub of the game is Starport, headquarters of the Interstel corporation, and a space station which orbits the planet Arth.") is already said in another way ("The player begins inside a space station orbiting a planet called Arth.") and referenced a little farther up. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 03:36, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

The weapon selection bit was a little bit confused on the wording, but the computer automatically selects the weapon for you. I added a reference to the page that explains that aspect. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 03:49, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

I rewrote all the stuff about the Terrain Vehicle. The last part of that paragraph is all referenced to pages 24-25, except for the part about the HUD, which has a new reference. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 04:25, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Okay, I've handled all the other problems in the gameplay section, either by removing bits or fixing their references, with the exception of three. On the part about commodities, I think you're getting too precise on the need to reference it. It should be clear enough from context that minerals and Endurium are the commodities in question. On real time combat, I don't think that's a controversial claim necessarily, but I've removed it and rewritten it. I'm not sure what the remaining issue is with weapon selection phrase you tagged as partly done, but I've rewritten that with more explanation as well.

The "development" and "reception and legacy" sections, other than the incomplete Sega part, should be airtight on referencing, as I wrote them from scratch, rather than working around the other material that was already in the article when I started editing it. I'm going to have to call it a night for tonight though. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 05:37, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Whoops, I wasn't quite clicking on the photon torpedo part. The conversion back and forth to Star Trek terminology is apparently automatic between my eyes and brain. Fixed. I also rewrote the Terrain Vehicle text. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 16:05, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Everything should be fixed up in the lead now. I also added all the releases in the development section with new references. As for the image, it actually is already reduced resolution. The original screen capture I took was 1023x768, so it's 25% of the original resolution now. I fixed up the rationale a bit to make that clearer. I also added more description to the image in the article itself. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 05:13, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the original resolution of the game was somewhere around 320x200 or 320x240. The reason you had it at 1024x768 is because you used DosBox or GOG which scales up to 1024x768. I tweaked the NFUR slightly to reflect this and to expand on it a bit. I will be passing the article later today pending a final review. --Odie5533 (talk) 10:42, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA promotion comments

Thank you for improving such an interesting piece of gaming history and for being the guinea pig for my first GA review. For the road to FA, I believe the Development and Reception sections need expansion to be considered comprehensive. There are dozens of reviews for this game which must be considered. The legacy also needs expansion, and probably to be split into subsections for the sequel, other games it inspired, and fan games. Here are two reliable secondary sources that deal with the fan games: [1] [2]. And here is another fan game that appears to have never finished, but might be worth mentioning. Great work on this article, and I look forward to working with you again in the future. --Odie5533 (talk) 03:39, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Whew, thanks for the epic review, and thanks for the having the patience to help me work through all the issues. This game is a treasured memory for me, and I'd love to take it to FA in the future. Look forward to more collaborations. Great review for your first time. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 04:24, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Three DOS releases?

FYI, Mobygames shows evidence of two releases of Starflight 1 for DOS:

• Album-style box with CGA and Hercules support only
• Conventional box with EGA/Tandy support added

I own a physical copy of Starflight 1 with EGA/Tandy support, but it's in the album-style box with a green sticker added to show the EGA/Tandy support. I suspect the conventional box release may contain the exact same game version as mine, and that mine was probably an early release of the EGA version while they still had the original album-style boxes around (hence the added sticker).

I would be interested to know if anyone has information about the EGA/Tandy release versus the original release, including whether it fixed or added any bugs. I can say that the EGA version is missing some animations that are in the CGA versions, like the spinning moon on the title and the docking bay doors opening/closing. I don't remember how Tandy fared, except that I think Tandy doesn't even get a discrete menu option at startup (it's activated when choosing one of the other options while running on a Tandy - don't remember which). --HunterZ (talk) 01:29, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

I remember having an album-style box with Tandy support. I believe it lacked EGA support. It may or may not have had a sticker. An eBay search finds album-style boxes listed as "IBM & Tandy" but without the green sticker and without any mention of EGA. Based on my memories and on available evidence, I agree EGA support was probably added later. And interesting question is whether or not Tandy support was present in the initial release. There is evidence to suggest that the Tandy support was present prior to the EGA. Specifically, with Tandy graphics the title screen animations are present. I suspect the Starport door animation is also present, but I have not verified that yet. With Tandy graphics, you may select either "RGB" or "Color TV or Composite" graphics, depending on your monitor type. Tandy graphics came from the IBM PC Jr, where they were called CGA Plus. Mpb2 (talk) 16:51, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Update: On eBay, I found an album-style box with a grey sticker that mentions "Tandy" and "Color graphics adapater" support. The sticker does not mention EGA. Mpb2 (talk) 16:58, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Legacy -- "STARFLIGHT: Tales From The Starport Lounge"

I added a bit about the new book set in the Starflight universe, including how Greg Johnson helped provided background info and one of the stories was written by Robert Silverberg.

Review

• Jeux & Stratégie nouvelle formule #5

207.229.139.154 (talk) 19:34, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

References