Talk:United States Hockey League

2008 updates

I updated the page so it didn't use 2006 in future tense anymore but I do not have a source for the information.Nocolon (talk) 13:12, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Pittsburgh

Didn't Pittsburgh have a team at some point as well? Am I not seeing it? --{{SUBST:User:Coryma}} 23:41, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean the Pittsburgh Forge team coached by Kevin Constantine in the North American Hockey League? Flibirigit 07:55, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Founding date

I see the league is listed as founded in 1972-73. I find the same USHL on hockeydb.com listed as founded in 1961-62. Does anyone have contradictory information? Sqwerty 07:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

It was definitely founded before 1972 as my aunt was signed in 1969 to one of their teams. - Novadestin (sorry not really sure how to add my signature to these things)

Fair use rationale for Image:USHL1.gif

Fair use rationale completed, and replaced with reduced logo. Flibirigit (talk) 21:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Team map

Just thought I'd leave a heads-up that, with the Lancers officially in Omaha now (and not Council Bluffs) and the inclusion of the NTDP in Ann Arbor, the team location map needs an update. I'm not good at these things, so I figured I'd leave a note for someone else. --Grayson37 (talk) 20:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the team map. With the addition of the Youngstown and USNTDP last season as well as Dubuque and Muskegon this season, the map is quite outdated and inaccurate. I removed the map to eliminate confusion (e.g., according to the map, Youngstown does not have a team, but the page says it does). It can be re-added if someone updates the map. RonSigPi (talk) 17:14, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Map has been updated and re-added. -DJSasso (talk) 17:22, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Proposed split into two articles (1961-79) and (1979 - present)

I propose that there be two separate articles for the United States Hockey League. One article to cover the currently operating USHL junior league, and the other to article to cover the years of 1961-79 when the USHL operated as a minor professional league. I originally created the new article United States Hockey League (1961–1979), but User:Djsasso objected to this new article, removed the article's content, and redirected it here. Dolovis (talk) 19:16, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

(Note: This discussion began at User talk:Dolovis, but it has been move here so that more editors will take part)

If you actually read the history section of the USHL page it would explain how it worked to you. They are the same league. What happened was that in 1979 all the teams that were not junior dropped out of the league which allowed the league to declare itself only junior. It is still the same league, it just changed classifications. I actually am from one of the cities that was in the league and have many programs from games that explain the league history. -DJSasso (talk) 01:36, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I understand what you say to be true, but nonetheless I remain convinced that it is better organized to keep two articles: 1961-1979 ( minor professional) and 1979 - present (junior). A minor pro league operates very differently from a junior league, and since their is such a clear break between the two (1979), it makes sense to have the two articles. Dolovis (talk) 17:04, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

There isn't a clear break between the two. Because from 1977-1979 the league had both junior and semi-pro teams. That is sort of the point. This is a very unique league which is why it should be kept together to illustrate that. -DJSasso (talk)

I believe that both of us want to improve the article(s) relating to the USHL - we just disagree on how to do it. I think that a single article is confusing to anyone who is trying to research minor pro hockey (like me). The fact that the league is currently operating as a junior league obscures the minor pro years of 1961-1979. Two articles makes logical sense. Dolovis (talk) 19:05, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh I know, don't take my thoughts personally or anything. You are doing some great work since you got here. Can be a bit daunting as a new editor. I have posted at the hockey project for some people to come and give their opinions. I definitely see what you are saying and think that all that probably needs to happen is to clean up this article a bit. It is a mess at the moment. -DJSasso (talk) 19:22, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

As someone with some background in the Jr. hockey and Sr. hockey worlds... I'll add my 2 cents. Ultimately... they are the same league... in 1979 they booted out the semi-pro teams. I think, based on how famous this league is, it should be treated like the OHL... There should be a main article, a history article, and articles for each season played. I'd keep the main page as United States Hockey League, under the header of "History" put a link like "See: United States Hockey League history"... and then put headers for Current Teams, Former Junior Teams, Former Semi-Professional Teams, and then add a template at the bottom of the page for Seasons of the United States Hockey League. After this structure is set, start making pages for 1961–62 USHL season and such, all the way up to 2009–10 USHL season -- but in the manner of articles like 2009–10 OHL season.

In summation, don't separate the history periods into separate articles, write a detailed history and create a separate article for that. Just my thoughts. DMighton (talk) 21:11, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, this is the way I would go once there was enough information. At the moment I would leave it on one article, but over time I would split it out as DMighton mentions. -DJSasso (talk) 21:13, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I would also agree with what DMighton said. It has worked to solve the confusing issue of the OHL, and thus it should handle this as well. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:22, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Another vote for DMighton's approach, which is after all how we've been doing this. The simple fact of the matter is that this is, and always has been, the same league: continuity of management, continuity of franchises; I can't see any possible grounds for splitting this up.  Ravenswing  09:27, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Draftees

Hadn't realized I didn't remove the 2008 and 2009 as well. Had meant to remove them all as duplication of content on List of USHL players drafted by NHL teams. -DJSasso (talk) 17:09, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

So discuss then. If you are going to revert just to revert me, then you are edit warring. Please give me a reason why we should leave this arbitrary 3 rounds of information for only 3 years on this page when its already better handled on another page. Content removal does not require discussion, I do hope you are aware of that. There is a big warning as you edit any page that you are not to submit your edit if you aren't willing to have it edited mercilessly (this includes deletion). -DJSasso (talk) 23:44, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

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"Top" Junior League

I admit that I the best thing I can say about my knowledge about Junior Hockey is how much I don't know. That said saying it's the only tier 1 league is a much clearer and less promotional claim than to say it's the "top" league - which is unsupported by the existing citations I checked. I would suggest a more neutral word, or at least one more backed up by sourcing, can be found than to have the claim of being the top league in both the first sentence of the article and of the first section. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:10, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

@Barkeep49: It is how the tiers work, it similar to saying the Premier League is the top pro league in the UK (as in top of the pyramid, if not in other rankings). This explains pretty well, even though it is primary. Maybe highest level of sanctioned junior is more appropriate of a term. But I did add the sanctioned part in there because the Canadian Hockey League is kind of a junior (but not fully amateur either) and some might rate certain Hockey Canada leagues higher in certain years (such as the BCHL). Once such ref is this more independent one (note, it ranks all North American leagues, pro and junior) or these less independent ones [1] and [2]. Yosemiter (talk) 01:21, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

The only people that don't consider the CHL junior and amateur is the NCAA. All other organizations do. But that doesn't really matter here because the CHL falls under Hockey Canada not USA Hockey. -DJSasso (talk) 11:23, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

I know, I just did not want to write an essay. It also used to say top junior league in the US, which was not precisely true (due to the presence of CHL teams in WA, OR, MI, and PA), so I added the USA Hockey statement for clarity. And I am not sure about how the CHL is viewed in Canada, but for the less in-the-know folks I have talked to in the Northwest US over several years, they thought the CHL was pro. So the NCAA does have some impact on how the everyman can view the leagues as pro. Yosemiter (talk) 12:34, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Basically Canada views the NCAA as ridiculous for considering the CHL as anything but amateur, but yeah they get $160 a month as a 16 year old up to I think its about $400 for a 20 year old last time I looked, but that is team and player dependent, some teams do much less, some players are at the high number and some at the lower number...but that is really meant to cover transportation and incidentals as opposed to being actual pay. It really comes down to the NCAA not wanting any of their athletes anywhere near money. Of course we also consider the NCAA to be for those who can't make it in the CHL. (obviously not totally the truth) -DJSasso (talk) 13:23, 12 October 2018 (UTC)