Talk:Paula Cole

Untitled

I made some minor edits to the wording and wikified some of the terms. In her heyday... seemed an antiquated way to talk about something that happened nor more than five years ago. I re-worded it to In the past... I also added information about the birth and raising of Paula's daughter Sky (not much frankly) to help explain the hiatus.

Finally, to say that Paula 'self released' some songs in retaliation seems POV. I re-worded it to get the music out there which is honest without putting any slant on the reason. Oh and I forgot to log in. I'm 24.126.70.48 Wjbean 22:10, 2005 Apr 23 (UTC)

Revisionist History

While its impossible to get inside another's head, the information regarding Harbinger is and remains a rather serious misstatement of fact. Paula was, from before high school on and through her graduation, among the most popular students in her class. She was the star of virtually all musical and drama productions in both middle school and high school. She served as class president in high school and an officer in school clubs.

When she began to tour, people from Rockport appeared at her shows, including second grade teachers, middle school science teachers, classmates and others.

It may well be that, internally, Paula felt pressures to conform. Perhaps so. Its a misstatment of the facts though to say this was an angst-ridden ignored woman in the corner. That just isn't what happened and its time to stop saying that.

- do you have any evidence for these statements?--65.118.148.205 (talk) 15:57, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I initially wrote a much longer answer, with names that I suspect you'd recognize...P. Wann, S. Bell, L. Borton, P. Egan, D. Flynn, A. Stanton, A. Gallagher, L. Blatchford, N. Grillo, C. Enright, P. Perry, D. Fleming, M. Robertson, J. Watson, J. Sirois, N. Brackett, H. Goodwin....

Suffice to say, as I suspect you now know....YES, I have plenty of evidence for what I wrote and could have easily written much, much, much more. I didn't. I won't.

I was there. I'm guessing you were too. What was said at the time of Harbinger, by Paula, by Imago, in the Gloucester Times article by R. Ackley heavily quoting H. Goodwin was obnoxious. And it was false. I'm glad its not being said anymore. It wasn't true then, it wasn't true during either of those middle or high school years.

Let's agree that its not good to put out false statements and move on.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.218.199 (talk) 04:03, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the poster of Revisionist History

Many people over the years have misinterpreted Paula Cole's past, believing that her music is the creation of an angst-driven social outcast. But this is not the truth at all. In some ways, I understand the reality, which is the opposite of the widely-held belief. Paula Cole is extraordinarily gifted. And extraordinarily gifted people receive a certain kind of treatment in school. When they get a 97 on a test, people ask "what happened?" When they aren't chosen as class president or prom queen, the question is "what happened?" Gifted people are expected to be perfect people. And even if it's only imagined in their minds, they place a level of pressure upon themselves to be perfect. Paula Cole may well have been angst-driven. A lot of Type A personalities are. But social outcast? No way.

What makes me believe this to be the case? Look at the lyrics to "Bethlehem." (I've lost five pounds these past few days trying to be class president and get straight A's.) Look at the lyrics to "Tiger." (I can finally be a teenager at age 26.) Look at the lyrics to "Me." (It's me who is my enemy, me who beats me up, me who makes the monsters, me who strips my confidence.) Read her explanation about her hiatus on the website, the part about needing to get off her hamster wheel. I'm not a social psychologist, but I can recognize that Paula Cole was Ms. Type A all the way!Jw4321 20:34, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I grew up in Rockport, MA with Paula Cole as well, and I know Paula Cole was not, repeat not, a social outsider by any stretch of the imagination. This is nothing more than a posture for marketing purposes. --Roger Williams 09:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Paulacole.jpg

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Hot 100

I'm stumped. How can "I Believe in Love" have a chart placement of #112 on the Billboard Hot 100? Doesn't the count only go up to 100? Monkey Bounce 08:53, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Libel for All-Star 2007 Game Performance

Someone has posted an obviously untrue account of Cole's performance on tonight's All-Star Game (she sang 'God Bless America' at the 7th-inning stretch). I posted the rebuttal beneath his/her fictitous account (I did not delete it). What gripe does this person have against her?

Please just delete it next time. This kind of garbage happens all the time where obviously false information gets added. Just delete it and be on your way, maybe make a note on the talk page. You should never be posting a rebuttal on the article itself. Emmpee 04:35, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

On July 10, I added factual info on Cole's performance at the All-Star game. Another user added the same factual info nearly simultaneously. Then, a third user added the untrue account. Finally, a fourth user removed all three accounts, the two factual and the third false account. I have re-edited to include the factual account. I put it in the "In popular culture section" while the second user chose the "Current status." While I feel that an all-star game performance does not actually speak to Cole's current status as a performer, I have no objection if someone feels more strongly and wished to move this information. Mzm 9:54, 11 July 2007

I've adjusted the account; there were a few inaccuracies, but overall it was a pretty good account of the gaffe, which has already made the rounds of the "morning zoo" talk show circus. The internet meme, I can't say, I've seen dozens of them, but I don't know what the Wiki guidelines are to call something "well-known". Most of the videos are being taken down because of MLB copyright, but then I don't think that corporate control of the media is a reason to deny something as well known. Anyone else's thoughts?--71.214.143.103 14:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I removed the section until a source can be provided as per WP:BLP — Zaui (talk) 18:52, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Why can't the factual report that she did sing "God Bless America" be left on the page? This press release from MLB and this article from Broadcast News demonstrate her participation, as does the video of her currently available at paulacole.com

The issues with the "libel" are a) the claim that the delay was 45 minutes, not 2 minutes, b) the claim re: internet memes and remixes, which were posted within minutes of her performance, c) the claim that she was escorted off the field by security, d) the claim she threw a fit. None of these happened. Mzm 12:42, 12 July 2007

Just add something to the Current status section: In July 2007 Cole sang God Bless America during the seventh-inning stretch of the 2007 Major League Baseball All-Star Game. and add a citation. — Zaui (talk) 17:07, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

While you're at it, why not add the technical difficulties? It was an embarassing part of the performance, if not the travesty the user suggested.--TheGrza 17:25, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Are the technical difficulties notable? I'd say no. So what if the performance was delayed? I was watching on TV at the time and didn't think anything of it. Stuff like that happens all the time. What is notable is that she sang at the all-star game. That's it. — Zaui (talk) 17:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The event itself isn't all that notable. Who cares that she sang a song ten years after some people listened to a couple of her albums? And at the all-star game? The only thing worth mentioning was the solid minute, two minutes of dead air as somebody fiddled with a keyboard. If you didn't think anything of it, don't add it to the article.--TheGrza 00:28, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}} Please add the following to the "Current status" section of this page: On July 10, 2007 Cole sang God Bless America during the seventh-inning stretch of the 2007 Major League Baseball All-Star Game.

Because the page was protected for insertion of problematic content but this content seem neutral and is sourced, I have added it to the page. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:29, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

{{Editprotected}} Please disambiguate "Keybord" to "Keyboard instrument|Keyboard" (Instrument in Infobox). --Leo Laursen ( T | C ) 14:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

done. — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:10, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

References

"False" duet?

What is a false duet, and why is it worth mentioning in the article? "The title "Hush, hush, hush", a false duet with Peter Gabriel talks about AIDS and about a young gay man dying in his father's comforting arms." So what does that mean, and why was the page edited to add something that only sounds derogatory without any explanation or any purpose? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Springtimeofhisvoodoo (talk • contribs) 20:16, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

what about adding info about here work with Peter Gabriel

I know of paula cole from here work with Peter Gabriel, yet the article has nothing about that. I would recommend adding info on that.

Agree. There is no mention (I think?) of her work on Secret World Live, either the album or the video release. Rwintle (talk) 15:09, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

While there isn't much discussion of it, there is certainly "mention" of it in Paula_Cole#Recording_career. - SummerPhD (talk) 00:51, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Apparently I can't read. Thanks. :) Rwintle (talk) 17:02, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Cdn charts?

I saw her perform at a Sarah McLachlan concert north of Montreal in the summer of 1997. We'd never heard of her (constantly asking "Are you sure it's not Holly Cole??") but we loved her when she performed. Is there any Cdn chart information? I think she became relatively well known that summer and through her association with Sarah. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.253.208 (talk) 19:49, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Feminist?

I just transferred the article out of Category:Feminist artists into the new Category:Feminist musicians. However, I don't know enough about Ms. Cole to say for sure that she is properly considered a "feminist" -- and there's nothing on that point in the article, with the possible exception of her participation in Lilith Fair. So I'd appreciate if a knowledgable editor would lend a hand, either adding some info to the article to support inclusion in that category, or else removing the category. Thanks! Cgingold (talk) 03:32, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Nothing in the article supports the category, so I've yanked it and a couple of others. Good catch. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:09, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Current status

The current status information is years out of date. Surely she has fans available to update the antiquated data. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.2.130.215 (talk) 08:29, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Record Producer Categories

I am trying to clean up the Women record producer Category and Paula's article has zero mention of her being a record producer. I understand that she might produce her own records (artists generally do that), but I am not sure about purely taking that role. I would like to remove her from the record producer categories. Lyrelyrebird (talk) 13:28, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Suggested updates and corrections to this article

I have executed changes 1, 2, 5, and part of 4. I opted against 3 as it seemed out of proportion to its coverage within the article. If another reviewer disagrees by all means add it. This leaves proposed changes 6 & 7 that I didn't have time for - although if anything close to the scale of the proposed 6 is added, change 7 should be done. Nosebagbear (talk) 23:52, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Hello Wikipedia! I noticed that this page has a few inaccuracies and that there’s some info missing from the lead that ought to be there, so I’d like to suggest updates that will take care of those issues. I read on the Wikipedia Conflict of Interest page that because I have a personal connection to Paula Cole, someone who does not have a conflict of interest should look over this proposal. Thanks for your time!

1.

• What I think should be changed:

The first sentence of the lead section should be changed to:

Paula Dorothy Cole (born April 5, 1968) is an American singer-songwriter and Grammy-nominated producer.

• Why it should be changed:

The sentence now on WIkipedia is missing an important piece of Cole’s career, which is that in addition to being a singer-songwriter she is also a musical producer. (She was the first woman to be nominated solo for a Grammy as a producer in 1997, so this is actually an important fact to include.)

2.

• What I think should be changed:

The first sentence of the sixth paragraph in the “1993–1998: Harbinger and This Fire” subsection that begins with “Cole was a featured artist on…” should be replaced with the following two sentences:

In 1996, Cole, along with Sarah McLachlan, Suzanne Vega, Lisa Loeb and others, was a featured performer in a four show mini-tour that served as a prototype for what would become the Lilith Fair tour. She was also a headliner for the Lilith Fair tours in 1997 and 1998.

• Why it should be changed:

The current sentence on Wikipedia has no source and is missing important details about Cole’s participation in events leading to Lilith Fair. The suggested replacement is very well sourced.

3.

• What I think should be changed:

I suggest there should also be a sentence added about Cole’s involvement in the establishment of Lilith Fair in the lead. It should be placed after the current second sentence that begin “Her second album…”:

Cole was a featured performer in the 1996 prototype mini-tour for Lilith Fair, and also was a headliner for Lilith Fair in 1997 and 1998.

• Why it should be changed:

Since it’s now in the rest of the article, and one of the highlights of her career given how important Lilith Fair became it seems it should also be summarized in the lead.

4.

• What I think should be changed:

The third sentence of the sixth paragraph in the “1993–1998: Harbinger and This Fire” subsection that begins with “Among them was "Producer of the Year”...” should be replaced with:

Cole won the "Best New Artist" award that year, and also became the first woman ever to receive a solo nomination for the "Producer of the Year" award.

• Why it should be changed:

The current sentence is inaccurate and is missing important details about Cole’s Grammy nominations. She was the first woman ever to be nominated for “Producer of the Year” as a solo nominee.

5.

• What I think should be changed:

The last sentence of the first paragraph in the lead section, that starts with “She won the…” – should be updated as:

She won the Grammy Award for Best New Artist in 1998, and also became the first woman ever to be nominated for “Producer of the Year” in her own right in that same year.

• Why it should be changed:

For the same reasons as #4.

6.

• What I think should be changed:

I suggest adding a new subsection to the Career section of Paula Cole’s page at the end of the Career section:

Social commentary

Cole said her 1996 song Where Have All the Cowboys Gone? was intended as a commentary on gender stereotypes, but the feminist message was misinterpreted by many listeners who did not realize the song was intended to be satirical. In 2003, Cole recorded a song called “My Hero, Mr. President” that she released for free download, which was critical of President George W. Bush and America’s involvement in the Iraq War. Robert Morast of the Argus Leader reported that Cole was the first “bona fide mainstream musician” to take a public stance against the Iraq war. On her 2019 album Revolution, Cole covered a version of the Marvin Gaye song Mercy Mercy Me (The Ecology) which she said was about “planetary health”. Cole told Billboard Magazine that while love songs matter, there should also be songs about important societal issues. Cole’s song “Silent”, also on the album Revolution, is about her experience of being sexually assaulted early in her career and her refusal to continue to be silent about the experience. In May 2021, Cole told USA Today that her song “Hidden in Plain Sight” addressed the “shameful history of slavery.”

• Why it should be changed:

I looked at Good Articles on Wikipedia about musicians, such as the pages about Noel Gallagher and Willie Nelson. These both include a subsection or section about their political activism. Paula Cole’s political activism has been featured in the press over many years. So I came up with the idea to do something similar here.

The Argus Leader source I use here isn’t found online, so here’s the part of that article which is relevant:

Given that, Paula Cole may be the leader of a new revolution thanks to a song she wrote that vents her distaste and critical contempt of President Bush… That's because for the first time since 9-11 - at least that I'm aware of - a bona fide mainstream musician is taking a musical stance against the current regime.

7.

• What I think should be changed:

I suggest in the second paragraph of the lead, after the second sentence, this be added:

Cole’s music sometimes addresses social issues, such as Gender role#Gender stereotypes, environmental issues, the history of Slavery in the United States,, and the Iraq war.

• Why it should be changed:

This reflects the new section about “Social commentary”, which as I said, seems to be a part of some Good Articles about musicians.

Thank you again for looking over these ideas! 675HavenWIld (talk) 15:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

@675HavenWIld: Go ahead: I have reviewed these proposed changes and suggest that you go ahead and make the proposed changes to the page. Please make sure you include in your edit summary that I allowed you to make these edits. Cherrell410 (talk) 20:12, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

User:Cherrell410 Thank you very much, I will go make the changes you authorized now! I see some of them have already been made by someone else before now, so I’ll only do the ones still left outstanding. Thanks for taking the time to review this! 675HavenWIld (talk) 15:10, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

The feminist message misinterpretation should be added to the song article "Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?" It deserves the improvement. Binksternet (talk) 00:07, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

References