Talk:Vehicle registration plates of the United Kingdom, Crown dependencies and overseas territories

Typeface

Does anybody know if the typeface used on number plates has a name, and if so what it is?

Edward 16:06, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Not sure – there is a 'popular' typeface but I have seen deviations thence. – Kaihsu 22:39, 2005 Jan 22 (UTC)

The new mandatory typeface/font (since September 2001) is often referred to as "Charles Wright 2001". See details here. -- Picapica (talk) 17:37, 26 June 2015 (UTC) (update)

BigglesPiP: The rules only say: > The Lines making up the figures must be of constant thickness > The large gaps between letters must be between the correct characters, and must be at least twice the size of other gaps.

Northern Ireland

The Northern Ireland section doesn't look right to me, though I'm not confident enough of the actual situation to edit it. I'm pretty sure that NI plates are of the form ZZZ 1234 - ie four digits. And I'm not at all sure that NI plates carry any year-denoting characters - isn't this absence one reason NI plates are often used as "vanity plates" in Great Britain? Loganberry 00:19, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have created a new section for Northern Ireland with county codes, as well as updating the text. In the code list I have used the current official county name, so Co. Londonderry appears as "Londonderry". This does not result from any political idealogy, but because it is actually called that. I also changed the links at the bottom to reflect the fact that the body responsible for registrations is in Northern Ireland is called DVLNI and does not have "Agency" in its name. --Garethhamilton 22:21, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Text on 'EU' letters edited to explain that GB is the correct internationally recognised letter group for NI registered vehicles.

Does anyone know why the August 2001 change to the format of British registration plates was not applied in Northern Ireland ? Seems a bit daft retaining the current outdated sysem. 213.40.112.230 (talk) 14:09, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

000D000

I have seen plates with numbers such as 000D000 where each 0 may be a digit. Are these diplomatic plates? I see a high probability of them being outside diplomatic houses such as embassies and high commissions. Also, there are 000X000 ones. – Kaihsu 22:41, 2005 Jan 22 (UTC)

For a full account of diplomatic plates in Britain (000 D 000 and 000 X 000), see this page. -- Picapica 10:03, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Various minor errors, ommissions, and random bits and bobs

I don't have time just at the moment to incorporate any of this into the article, nor do I feel inclined to do so, since I'm not in a position to verify any of the information. But I've found a number of discrepencies with other sources which would appear to indicate errors and omissions in the Wikipedia article, which I thought I may as well document here for future reference:

Scottish number plates

whilst Scotland and Ireland had special sequences incorporating the letters "S" and "I" respectively

Judging by this list of old one and two letter codes at http://www.regtransfers.co.uk/main/stories/cracking2.asp it appears that not all Scottish codes contained an 'S', eg 'G' for Glasgow,, 'AG' for Ayrshire.

I can answer that: Apart from G - Glasgow, S - Edinburgh, and V - Lanarkshire, the original 1903 scheme did indeed only allocate codes in Scotland of the form S* or *S. Only later, when all the "S" codes had been used up, were other codes issued in Scotland. Two letter codes with G or V in them were originally reserved for this purpose, but some were eventually used in England.

For the record, the two-letter codes with G (and without S) that were originally issued in Scotland were:

GA - Glasgow, from 1920

GB - Glasgow, from 1922

GD - Glasgow, from 1925

GE - Glasgow, from 1928

GG - Glasgow, from 1930

GM - Motherwell and Wishaw, from 1920

AG - Ayrshire, from 1925

FG - Fife, from 1925

RG - Aberdeen, from 1928

WG - Stirlingshire, from 1930

The last five of these were re-allocated south of the border in the big re-organisation of October 1974 - GM going to Reading, AG to Hull, FG to Brighton, RG to Newcastle and WG to Sheffield.

Only three two-letter codes with V (and without S) were originally issued in Scotland:

VA - Lanarkshire, from 1922

VD - Lanarkshire, from 1930

AV - Aberdeenshire, from 1926

All of these went south in October 1974 - AV going to Peterborough, VA to Cambridge (and thence to Peterborough in 1981), and VD to Luton (but only until 1978, when it was withdrawn).

Luton, of course, also inherited GS and VS from Perthshire and Greenock respectively. Bluebird207 (talk) 21:40, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Allocation of old one/two letter codes

When a licensing authority reached 9999, it was allocated another two letter mark, but there was no pattern to these subsequent allocations as they were allocated on a first come first served basis.

Looking at the above list, it's plausible that initially they were allocated on a first-come-first-served basis, but it's clear that at some point an effort was made to introduce some kind of ad-hoc pattern. Eg most of the 'Lx' codes were allocated to London, several of the 'Nx' codes to Manchester, etc. Perhaps this is when the 'Sx' codes were allocated to Scotland?

The 'Sx' and 'xS' codes were allocated to Scotland right at the start of the system, in 1903.

London took most of the 'Lx' codes simply because it wanted them. The first one it took was LC in May 1905, followed by LN in November 1906, LB in March 1908, LD in May 1909, LA in April 1910, LE in July 1911, LF in May 1912, LH in February 1913 and LK in August 1913.

Likewise Middlesex with most of the 'Mx' codes (beginning with MX in July 1912, followed by MC in August 1917, MD in August 1920 and ME in November 1921), Kent with most of the 'Kx' codes (beginning with KT in January 1913, followed by KN in August 1917, KE in July 1920 and KK in June 1922), and Birmingham with most of the 'Ox' codes (beginning with OA in February 1913, followed by OB in October 1915, OE in May 1919 and OH in May 1920). Bluebird207 (talk) 22:21, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

List of one/two letter codes

It would be nice to have such a list on Wikipedia. Note that there are some special cases that also need to be tackled, where a three letter code was reserved for a special use. eg based on an old list I saw when I was young (in an 'I Spy' book, IIRC) although 'MC' was allocated to London, the 'GMC' sequence was IIRC reserved and allocated to Manchester for use by Greater Manchester Council. I'm also guessing that although 'AN' was allocated to West Ham, 'MAN' might have been reserved from this sequence to avoid clashing with the Isle of Man use of this code. There may be other examples.

The GMC series was issued quite normally by Middlesex in April 1937, and its reverse in October 1955. The three-letter combination was then used with B suffixes in April 1964 (shortly before Middlesex was largely absorbed into Greater London), and with J suffixes in May 1971.

The source for this information isn't the most reliable in the world, but it is handy: http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/registrations/mc.htm

Greater Manchester was created in April 1974. The big registration re-organisation took place six months later, with the MC code being allocated to London North East LVLO, which issued the GMC combination with N suffixes as its first series. It then issued the combination with V suffixes in mid-1980, with C prefixes in the spring of 1986, with J prefixes in August 1991 and finally with P prefixes in August 1996.

So if Greater Manchester Council used the GMC combination on its vehicles at any stage, then the registrations in question had originally been issued in Middlesex/London – or, if they were being issued for the first time, were booked from London North East LVLO. (It's likely, though, that some of the council's vehicles had registrations containing GNC – the NC code, and its three-letter combinations, were always allocated to Manchester.) Bluebird207 (talk) 14:32, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Continuing from above...

The MAN combination was indeed reserved for use on the Isle of Man, and still is today.

GPO, meanwhile, was reserved for the General Post Office, though the PO code was allocated to West Sussex. Similarly, MCA was reserved for Alfred McAlpine plc, though the CA code was allocated to Denbighshire (which issued the combination in the normal way with F suffixes in mid-1968).

FYS was reserved by Glasgow Corporation in 1948 for use on its buses, as was SGD in 1957. (Reverse FYS, however, was issued normally in mid-1962.) JOJ was reserved in the same manner by Birmingham Corporation in 1949 (though its reverse was issued normally in the spring of 1963).

And, of course, there were the banned combinations – some of which are listed in the article, and in the Banned Prefixes section below. Bluebird207 (talk) 15:44, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

British Military plates

We could do with some mention of these. All the ones I've seen are either of the the form two digits, two letters, two digits, or alternatively two letters, two digits, two letters.

Olav's plates site http://www.olavsplates.com/great_britain.html has some more information. (It appears from the comments on the photos that the first form is pre 1995, the latter form after. Also, it appears that the earliest plates used the central two-letter code to identify the branch of the military, but later plates didn't)

Isle of Man Plates

Judging by this site http://www.pl8s.com/i/iman.htm it would appear that things are much more complicated than we suggest here; according to this article there have been eleven different styles of plate issued on the Isle of Man (twelve if you count the brief reuse of the original format in 1971). The pictures on Olav's site would tend to corroborate much of this, and certainly shows more styles than those we describe.

Looking at the format of the Isle of Man plates, I'm guessing that they actually exist in the same numbering space as UK plates (ie an Isle of Man plate will never clash with a UK plate). Certainly the old code list shows MN as being allocated to the Isle of Man, and I'm guessing that 'MAN' was reserved out of the 'AN' sequence.

This page on the DVLA web site http://www.dvla.gov.uk/faq/faq_number_plates.htm#10 comments that a code is reserved in the new UK system for the Isle of Man so that they can adpot the scheme it they choose. I regard this as circumstantial evidence that an effort has been made to coordinate UK and IoM plates, and that they effectively exist in the same number space, but it would be interesting to know whether this is really true.

Channel Island Number Plates

It's clear from Olav's site that the numbers can vary in lenght, eg Jersey plates don't have to be five digits, older ones are four (and presumably they started at '1'). COnversely Alderney plates at no longer three digits, they're now into four (and presumably they started at '1' too?).

This also suggests that Channel Island number plates exist in a separete number space and can clash with UK plates. In the old UK scheme 'J' was apparently allocated to Durham and 'AY' to Leicestershire. If this is true it is probably worthy of note.

Guernsey plates presumably cannot clash with UK plates, since they're entirely numberic, and such plates have never been used in the UK.

The 'GBG' with a circle round appears to be just a stylistic element on the plate. Judging by Olav's site by no means all plates have it.

Roy Badami 23:09, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

The Guernsey 'H' plate thing is based on first-hand knowledge, but here's a third party to back it up: http://www.sandman-uk.com/guernsey/town.htm --81.86.106.14 17:00, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Alderney plates are all prefixed 'AY' and are sequential from 1 upwards; as vehicles are retired the numbers are re-issued.

The GBG on Guernsey plates is stylistic as you say. To be legal abroad, a correct 'international oval' would be required.

Diplomatic plates

And another...

This page http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/haynes1/ukdiplo.htm referenced by Picapica above mentions a third kind of diplomatic plat (eg A21RXS) that we don't mentionl.

Roy Badami 01:06, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I can't find another section for this and I don't know how to make a new one, but how can I explain that "motorcycle" number plates are used by some buses, lorries and trucks (due to the rear body design) without making that section even longer? --81.156.12.205 (talk) 18:22, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

I've attempted to summarise the use of the two-line plate format - basically it's used when a plate narrower than the standard format is needed. Don't really need to say much more than that, IMHO. Regards, Letdorf (talk) 12:39, 21 September 2010 (UTC).

Perfect, thanks :-) --81.156.225.83 (talk) 18:39, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

"New F" number plates

Does anyone know anything about the "new F" number plates? --JimmyTheWig 14:57, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Personalised Number Plates

Look guys, I know you want to sell your numberplates but sneaking links into the main page here isn't the way to do it. Go whore your wares elsewhere. TiHead 22:50, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Black plates

Again having to correct this. Black plates are now permitted on all Historic Vehicles, which means any built prior to 1973. They do not have to have been registered or used prior to that date, only built. I quote from the DVLA website "Vehicles constructed before 1.1.73 may display traditional style "black and white" plates i.e. white, silver or grey characters on a black plate." Colin99 21:39, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

This can't be the whole story because buses continued to use black plates for years after 1973. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.237.124.63 (talk) 20:05, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

London buses (and Ripponden Motors lorries) did, but most had the usual black characters on white and yellow plates. Peter James (talk) 02:45, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Gibraltar

No mention of Gibraltar plates on the article. They have a very UK style of plate but with G and then numbers.

That's probably because they have their own article. --DWR^talk 15:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Good information source

There appears to be a good site with information about the place of origin of number plates for the previous system. Alan Pascoe 11:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Post Code

By law; number plates must display the postcode of the producer. I'm not sure when this became mandatory.

This was when the new font was introduced. Rugxulo (talk) 00:08, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Mentioned in the Theft of number plates section. MilborneOne (talk) 00:10, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I've had two new sets of plates on my current motor (due to theft), both from Halfords. Neither has had a postcode on them. Mr Larrington (talk) 12:40, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Temporary / Transit / Trade Plates

Does anybody know what the rules are about the temporary / transit / trade plates that are used for cars which have not yet been registered / are being delivered / test-driven? e.g. the red-lettered thing that gets put in your car when you go for a test drive etc —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.168.226.117 (talk) 19:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Trade Plates

I notice someone has already asked for more details about trade plates but I would also ask if someone knows the difference between the red on white plates and the white/silver on red background plates that were around at one time? Thanks to all contributors.

"TF" plate?

I followed a car the other day, which had a plate starting "TF07". I thought it looked odd. So where did that one come from? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.56.118.20 (talk • contribs) 19:41, 13 Jul 2007 (UTC)

Glasgow. -- Arwel (talk) 08:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

BAOR private plates

The article currently says under British Forces: In West Germany, private cars owned by members of HM Forces and their families also used plates with the same format (i.e. 2 number, 2 letter, 2 number), distinct from those used in the UK. My recollection is that this wasn't so - BAOR plates were distinct from both British and German plates, I think I recall them being 3 letters, 3 numbers. Can anyone confirm? -- Arwel (talk) 08:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Worldlicenseplates.com has two photos. If that site is right, the format was two letters, three figures, one letter, and later three letters, two figures, one letter.--GagHalfrunt 15:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for that. It's definitely not what we say in the article, anyway... -- Arwel (talk) 22:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

British Forces' private plates (again)

The article still says Private cars driven by British military personnel are now issued with either standard UK number plates (if right hand drive) or German ones (if left hand drive)., but this week (in the UK) I noticed a right-hand drive car which was carrying a plate with numbers in the German font and with the "D" and EU stars, but the registration number was in the pre-2000 British format (X123ABC). Is our statement still accurate (or was it ever?). -- Arwel (talk) 20:46, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

It is possible that (non-military) driver has decided to use a German-style plate for their registration, perhaps in the hope of evading fines. Some enthusiasts interpret the DVLA website / guidance notes and the statutory instrument to mean that they can use plate styles from any EU country but I suspect the wording is only ambiguous to non-lawyers. -- md84419 12:08, 12 November 2007

I have seen a BMW with a X123ABC registration on a faux-German plate, including a hyphen. The back plate was yellow. ANPR systems would be still able to read these as they can be configured with different countries' official fonts. In a similar vein, some owners of personal import US cars have imitation American-style metal plates (rather than the smaller perspex motorbike plates which seem to be officially tolerated for these vehicles). Both run the risk of being stopped by a bad tempered copper.Rugxulo (talk) 00:16, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, German-style number plates (complete with the "D" if desired) are sold by several suppliers in the UK. However, they are not legal for road use on UK-registered cars, and are sold as "show plates". Other national styles are also available. See, for instance, [1]. Letdorf (talk) 10:26, 9 March 2009 (UTC).

Edits by 62.140.211.123 requiring citation

I cannot find any sources to support 62.140.211.123's statement that the UK rear plates will change from yellow to white in 2009, to fall inline with the rest of Europe. Indeed, this seems unlikely as the reflective properties of UK number plates is very strict (BS AU 145d) (compare to most of Europe where the reflective properties of number plates are not mandated). In the UK and many other EU countries, white light sources (including retro- or reflex-reflective light sources) are not permitted on the rear of vehicles. The white areas of oval stick-on nationality sticker are not permitted to be highly reflective. The only exception is the EU logo when incorporated into a numberplate, where the letters and the stars may be highly reflective white. However, the maximum size is carefully mandated and is so small it is unlikely to be mistaken for a light source.

If 62.140.211.123's statement is correct, then either the UK would switch to non-reflective plates or EU countries would have to agree to permit white-reflective rear registration plates. If the later, there would still be problems for anyone that attempts to drive such as car outside the EU.

It would seem more likely that either each member state would continue to be allowed to specify their own format, or the member states would come up with a common format using the best features of each (such as the BS AU 145d background colours and reflectivity, and the German FE-Schrift tamper-hindering typeface). -- md84419 12:08, 12 November 2007

Page Name

Should this article be called Car number plates in the United Kingdom? As this covers the whole of the UK and not just Great Britain it would seem to be the better title. Regan123 (talk) 16:47, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Private plates for England?

One license plate i see often in england, they have three letters, a space, and four numbers, are these private plates or the national plates for England? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.246.56 (talk) 22:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

If one of the letters is I or Z, then these are numbers originally issued in Northern Ireland, although these can be later transferred to mainland vehicles (a common practice to disguise the age of the vehicle in question). Letdorf (talk) 23:21, 21 May 2008 (UTC).

Just a couple of points

Fairly insignificant this one, but are the plates really rectangular? I should have thought that in order for them to be rectangular, they would have to have corners. Is there a technical name for a rectangle that isn't a rectangle, or will "approximately rectangular" suffice?

Second point: is it right that NI is still referenced as being served by the DVLNI or should that be the DVA now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by LaFoiblesse (talk • contribs) 10:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

It appears the DVLNI has been subsumed by the DVA, so I've updated the article accordingly. Letdorf (talk) 15:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC).

In design terminology the shape of both types of UK plate can be described as a filleted rectangle. Rugxulo (talk) 22:19, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Merging Vehicle registration plate identifiers of the United Kingdom

The article Vehicle registration plate identifiers of the United Kingdom mostly consists of a table of "local memory tags" which is also duplicated here, thus rendering the article largely pointless. Letdorf (talk) 17:30, 1 July 2008 (UTC).

I have now replaced Vehicle registration plate identifiers of the United Kingdom with a redirect to the appropriate section in this article. Letdorf (talk) 23:07, 3 September 2008 (UTC).

NI Euro plates and Stroke City

Parts of this article regarding NI have been repeatedly edited by a user or users who has/have an obviously non-NPOV attitude to Northern Ireland, despite it (IMHO) being broadly in accordance with WP:IMOS. I suggest it might be more constructive for interested parties to discuss and reach a compromise on this talk page, than to continue the current edit war. Letdorf (talk) 23:26, 3 September 2008 (UTC).

I propose deleting the whole "European plates and the GB controversy" sub-section. Evidently, this section is too tempting a target for edit-warring soapboxers, and is mostly unreferenced - the one reference given is about driving licences, not registration numbers. Letdorf (talk) 15:57, 5 January 2009 (UTC).

Q suffix numbers?

I have a suspicion that Q-suffix numbers were issued to indicate a vehicle of indeterminate vintage before 1983. This website seems to imply this was the case. Can anyone confirm or deny? Letdorf (talk) 11:36, 13 October 2008 (UTC).

I remember seeing _one_ Q suffix plate in the 1980s when I would be about 12 or 13. This was about the time that the A-prefix plates came in. So I can confirm (not that it counts for much on WP) that they were issued. As a matter of fact, it is years since I've seen a Q prefix plate. Rugxulo (talk) 21:47, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Yep, bang on - most typically seen on kit cars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.211.94.137 (talk) 07:55, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Q plates were also used for temporarily imported vehicles. When I was a small Mr Larrington we had QQ1773 on a Saab to get it from the dealer to Germany, where it was re-registered with a BAOR number. Mr Larrington (talk) 12:44, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Local memory tags in 2001 onwards GB registrations

Does anyone have a good reference for the "K" local memory tag prefix standing for Milton Keynes (or anything else)? The official DVLA publication (INF104) doesn't give a derivation for this particular tag, so in the absence of other references, we shouldn't really be speculating here. Letdorf (talk) 22:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC).

I have removed this 'meaning' for the K tag, stating no meaning. As you say, DVLA INF104 has a blank in this field. Speculating, I'd say that was what was left over after allocating meanings, however dubious. Kruador (talk) 11:34, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

I always assumed this to mean Kettering. INF104 only mentions two places, Borehamwood and Northampton (which is very close to Kettering) and in the absence of a more reliable source, these are all we can mention in the article. Rugxulo (talk) 22:01, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

As part of a general tidy up, I have added a citation linking to the BBC News Online article from when the tags were first announced and there is no meaning attributed to the K tag there either, so DVLA seems to have been consistent in having no official name for it. Given the repeated previous edits inserting (and removing) "Milton Keynes", including its recent undeletion, I have sought to avoid an edit war by retaining the words as a de facto unofficial usage (which is generous, since there is no citation) but have italicised the words to indicate that they are not of equal standing with the other areas, noting in brackets that there is no official name. It would be helpful if a citation of unofficial usage could be provided to justify the name's retention, or if evidence of non-usage could be given to justify its future removal. Richardguk (talk) 05:37, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

AFAIK, the only source of any relevance to this is INF104. If INF104 doesn't give a derivation for 'K', then, unless someone can find an equally authoritative source, then any derivation given in this article is fictitious. In any case, both Kettering and Milton Keynes have been suggested in the past by various WP contributors, without any references of course.Letdorf (talk) 22:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC).

OK, I've Googled based on the least ambiguous area names and found only one non-Wikipedia reference to Milton Keynes, and no independent references at all to Kettering. Though a widely-used unofficial name might be reasonable to include (distinguished as such), I agree that there is evidence to justify not including any name, official or even unofficial. Have accordingly deleted Milton Keynes and added a hidden HTML comment to the main page for future editors. Richardguk (talk) 01:04, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Who produces the plates?

The article doesn't tell who produces the plates. Are the plates obtained from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency or do car owners get them from some private company? Also, if the DVLA provides the plates, is it legal to use privately made plates?. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Number plates are now produced by registered suppliers, private plates are not allowed. Just added a section on number plate suppliers - please let us known if it is not clear. In the past anybody with the right equipment could make a plate with very little control so the rules were tightened up a few years ago. MilborneOne (talk) 10:29, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

European Union symbol: Mottram claim

I can't find any independent reporting of the significance of the information in the following paragraph, so I have deleted it from the main page:

The option of the EU stars and the country identifier letters ‘<tt>GB</tt>’ is claimed to be a registered design – number 2053070 – registered at the [[United Kingdom Patent Office|UK Patent Office]] in 1995 by David and Nansi Mottram.<ref>http://www.intelligentinnovation.eu/pages/registered-designs/eurosymbol-numberplates.php</ref> However, the blue strip with European Union emblem and country identifier was [[Irish vehicle registration plates#EU Standardised vehicle registration Plates|introduced by Ireland]] in 1991, before the Mottrams registered their version.

There is indeed a registered design at the UK Patent Office and the Mottrams have expressed strong views on the dispute on many websites. But there seems to be no third-party reporting of this intellectual property dispute. On the face of it, therefore, the claim does is not widely considered to be a serious threat to the use of the GB European Union symbol and the significance of the dispute is currently insufficient to make it encyclopedic. In addition, the link above currently seems to cause a virus warning. Richardguk (talk) 02:26, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. A quick google doesn't seem to throw up anything which could be considered a reliable secondary source. Looks like WP:SOAP to me. Letdorf (talk) 12:05, 5 May 2010 (UTC).

J

What is the J prefix used for under the current system? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.207.120 (talk) 09:55, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

J and U are not used for standard registrations, but can be used for personalised registrations. --86.156.145.37 (talk) 11:31, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Image:GB EUROPLATE.jpg

I'm not sure I understand why various IP addresses persist in deleting this image from the "Colour and dimensions" section - it seems quite appropriate to me. Please discuss your objection here. Thanks, Letdorf (talk) 13:19, 10 February 2010 (UTC).

Unusual plates

1. The TF07 plate (see above) was almost certainly a military vehicle plate and would be of the form AA99AA. 2. The Q suffix and prefix was also used for ex-military vehicles sold for civilian use (e.g. LandRovers and occasional breakdown recovery vehicles or heavy transport low loaders) where the MOD did not want to reveal the date of manufacture. 62.69.36.215 (talk) 09:26, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

• 1. According to the previous answer above it is a standard civil allocated number so no relationship with the military. 2. Just a point on MOD did not want to reveal the date of manufacture is probably not true the main problem is that the military vehicles particularly were not bought with the necessary paperwork to prove their age and status to the registration authority, although I suspect the disposal authority probably just didnt know. MilborneOne (talk) 11:17, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Registrations of the form "TF07 ABC" were definitely issued in Scotland, probably from the Glasgow DVLA office (yes, I know this is OR). Letdorf (talk) 13:15, 8 March 2010 (UTC).

3. The Article indicates current LH plates are issued by the Wimbledon office, or its successor. I live and work in London, and I have never noticed LH - and, believe me, I'm a sad individual: I look for these - and have done for a year! Auto wrote 20140426 1757 Z. 86.161.183.62 (talk) 17:56, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Local Memory Tags

Before reverting the IPs changes is their any reason why the local memory tags section has been changed and now does not agree with the official source document? MilborneOne (talk) 11:31, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I have changed it back to the referenced version pending explanation or a new reliable reference for the changes. MilborneOne (talk) 11:42, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. It's ridiculous that this table is constantly being changed despite the fact that that there are clear citations for the original official names (as reported by the BBC when the tags were first announced) and the current official names (as listed in the DVLA leaflet) and the two sources happen to still agree in every detail.

One option would be to transclude the table from a template, to discourage casual editors from changing something which they may not realise is taken from definitive sources. This would not prevent anyone from making changes if they wished, but making the text protected would be overkill.

Of course it's no bad thing for the tags to have appropriate links, but there is no reason for changing the text, which is happening frequently.

— Richardguk (talk) 11:55, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Another option would be to semi-protect the page, given the number of unproductive edits from unregistered users. Letdorf (talk) 13:10, 8 March 2010 (UTC).

The Local memory tags section doesn't mention those beginning with 'U'. So far I have only seen these on buses, e.g. UF 56 OXF. Would anyone like to write more to fill in the gap in this table? Mebden (talk) 11:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

U isn't a defined local memory tag AFAIK, but any combination of two letters (except for I, Q & Z) can be used for current-format personalised registrations. Regards, Letdorf (talk) 17:32, 25 September 2011 (UTC).

Auto adds - per above, point three - does LH exist in reality as a local tag? 20140426 1758Z 86.161.183.62 (talk) 17:58, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

It is according to DVLA, but local tags appear to be used in approximately the same order (which is not necessarily alphabetical order) with each age identifier, so maybe they have never reached LH. Peter James (talk) 20:58, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Auto eventually responds. Peter - many thanks - understood.

But many 'late' L* combinations are available - LL, LM, LP, LR, LS, for sure, and possibly others. I commute in London, by public transport - and have yet to see one LH. I'll keep my eyes open still. Auto 2124Z 20150215. 86.166.147.75 (talk) 21:23, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Those are from other parts of London, and as I've mentioned the order is not alphabetical (Preston has PA-PT but usually PO and PN are issued first, followed by PE; others such as PB, PC, PD, have never been used). LH has been issued but possibly only LH51; I don't know whether it just hasn't been reached more recently or (as is probably the case with MU) if other combinations have been preferred. Peter James (talk) 01:10, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Banned prefixes

I can't help but wonder - why was "UBF" an unacceptable prefix? I can understand why "UVF" or "UNF" or (these days) "UBS" might be banned - but what connotations does "UBF" has that lead to its inclusion on the list? 87.194.239.235 (talk) 22:46, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

No evidence but possibly for You Bloody Fool which may have been unacceptable in the past. MilborneOne (talk) 12:38, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Equally speculative, but was there ever a Young British Fascists, analagous to the Young Conservatives, Young Liberals etc.? Si Trew (talk) 17:18, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

That might be it - although the official name of the organization was the "BUF", it's probably close enough. cf JPF vs PFJ. Thanks for the info. 87.194.239.235 (talk) 23:48, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm still not convinced. If You Bloody Fool, why allow "UFC" i.e. on this theory, You Fucking Cunt? I can find one source for this line of thought, a number plate vendor's site, but at least one other such site includes UBF in its lists of available ones. I'm extremely tempted to delete UBF from the list. Lovingboth (talk) 12:05, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

DVLA will happily sell you, for example, A1 UBF = it's going. Lovingboth (talk) 12:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I know it needs a reliable reference but being available now is not an indication that it has always been available. MilborneOne (talk) 12:55, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

UBF was banned originally, as were ABF and BBF (which presumably could have been seen as abbreviations of "A Bloody Fool" and "Bloody, Bloody Fool" respectively).

Here's a source: http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/registrations/bf.htm

And here are a few other three-letter combinations that were initially deemed unacceptable (and may still be):

• BAS - apparently the Gaelic word for "death"
• DAM - sounds like "damn"
• DWO - seen as an abbreviation of "Driving While Oriental", a derogatory description of the supposed bad driving habits of Asian people
• LAV - has connotations of toilets
• NBG - seen as an abbreviation of "No Bloody Good", commonly used by the Royal Air Force
• SOT - has connotations of drunk people

Bluebird207 (talk) 15:58, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

'Reversed' registrations of the 1950s to early 1960s eg 310 NDT

In the history section, 1932-1963, there is mention of the 'reversed' registrations, with the numbers after the numerals. Is there any way of finding out where individual registrations were allocated? (Mention is made of their geographical location eg the system starting at Staffordshire and also operating in Middlesex.) Also is there a way of finding out what year they were allocated in (the period spans the 1950s to the beginning of the 1960s in the article) I am interested in 310 NDT. How can I find out where this was issued and in what year - and can we talk about how to find out such information in the article? 82.32.238.139 (talk) 19:41, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I wouldn't recommend pointing out in the article where to find information as regards when such and such a registration was issued - but I do recommend this site: http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/registrations/reg-letters.htm Bluebird207 (talk) 23:14, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposal for article split

I propose sections of Vehicle registration plates of the United Kingdom be split into an article titled something like Vehicle registration plates of British overseas territories (though I understand the wording "overseas territories" would exclude crown dependencies like the Isle of Man and Jersey). Does anyone have any opinions, for or against, on this idea? Kevin Steinhardt (talk) 19:20, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Map of Great Britain

I'd suggest this is removed, as it's misleading; as the image has 'helpfully' been refined to only include the mainland (and thus excludes the Scottish islands, Orkney, Shetland, etc) it's not actually an accurate reference for the area covered by regular UK plate usage... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.211.94.137 (talk) 07:59, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

DVLA and DVA

Does anyone know why the UK has two registration offices? DVLA and DVA?

Are they using the same registration database?

I am aware of that DVA is in NI but what is the point of having two offices?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Vitringur (talk • contribs) 01:59, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Because they are different countries? Si Trew (talk) 16:50, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

No they are not 2 different countries Northern Ireland Just has a different system to the rest of the UK but they are both equal in fact the two systems are being intergrated i know i used to work at DVA in Northern Ireland

Imported vehicles, personalised registrations and plate materials

The information about registrations given to imported vehicles seems to be incorrect, stating that when a vehicle is imported to the UK, it is registered as a new vehicle (with the current year identifier) when in actual fact it is given an appropriate registration according to the vehicle's age; i.e. a 1996 car imported to the UK now (2011) would be given a "new" prefix N or P registration with the DVLA database showing the date of first registration as 2011, but the year of manufacture as 1996. A "new" Q prefix plate would be given to that vehicle if the age was unknown.

If a vehicle is given a personalised registration from new, and say in 2011 the owner wishes to sell that vehicle (of 2003 vintage) and transfer their personalised registration to their new vehicle, their old vehicle that they are selling will be given a "new" 52 / 03 / 53 plate.

I think it needs to be made clear that in the UK plates need to made from plastic and not metal, but this only applies to vehicles manufactured after a certain year. Unfortunately I am not sure what that year is. --86.156.145.37 (talk) 14:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I believe you are correct, although we really need a reliable source for the above. Regards, Letdorf (talk) 20:23, 14 July 2011 (UTC).

I'll see what I can do but maybe someone else could find a source as well :-) --86.156.145.37 (talk) 14:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

The current system and 01 plates...

maybe my memory sucks... but i always thought the system started with 01. Will it not be used for 2051 then? 86.164.56.6 (talk) 14:42, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

01 wasn't used in 2001. The DVLA leaflet INF104 says "until all permutations are exhausted", which would imply 01 will be used in 2051, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see to be sure! Letdorf (talk) 18:28, 29 August 2011 (UTC).

The Y-prefix registrations of the old system ran from March to August 2001, which would have been the 01-infix period if the new system had been running at that time. The new (current) system started in September 2001, i.e at -51-.

At the time the new system started, the talk was of -01- registrations being issued as "ageless" vanity plates once the new system had had "time to become established." Nothing seems to have come of that idea so far though, and we are now over a decade in. Perhaps they have since decided to save -01- for a final set of marks in 2051, or perhaps they are being saved as some kind of eventual replacement for the current "age-unknown" Q-prefix plates: presumably they could run out at some point in the next 40 years.

Personally though, I'd put my money on nobody "official" having actually given any thought to the issue!

P M C 00:52, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Practicality of transfering plates

Could someone explain in the article what plate can subsequently be used on the older car when its plate is transferred to a newer one (given that it can't receive the plate from the newer vehicle). Is it still necessary to own both of the vehicles for a transfer to take place. I understood that at one point plates were transferred onto a cheap moped which was then sold to the purchaser for a very high price who transferred it to their vehicle in situations where the owners only wished to transfer a plate. PeterEastern (talk) 21:44, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

See DVLA leaflet INF46. Nowadays a previously issued registration number can be transferred to a V778 Retention Document without the need for unwanted mopeds. Regards, Letdorf (talk) 23:36, 11 November 2011 (UTC).

Pic in lede

The image File:BritishNumberPlates_CopyrightKaihsuTai.jpg is rather misleading here, for two reasons:

1. First for the more minor one, KaishuTai claims copyright not only in the name of the file but in the file's description, then grants it fair use under GC-SSA. I imagine technically Kaishu-san can do so, but rather goes against the spirit of things.

1. Second, the top number plate is illegal because it does not display the name or postcode of the motor store or factor who made the plate. So we are saying on the article, essentially, this is a legal number plate (new version) when in fact that number plate is illegal.

Best wishes Si Trew (talk) 16:48, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

To clarify: I appreciate old plates etc will have been made before the rules for having the motor factor's signiature came into force. I have some myself for an old Beetle, still in the nice silver and black. I just don't think it is appropriate to put on an important article like this, that people seem to come to a lot wondering how do I register my car in the UK etc, to unwittingly mislead them to thinking that would be a current legal registration plate. Si Trew (talk) 16:54, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Just because the supplier's name and postcode aren't in black text at the bottom of the plate doesn't mean it's illegal. You can get plates with the supplier's name and postcode in the corner in grey text. --109.148.118.64 (talk) 01:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Old codes

I have hidden the recent text dump of old codes as it has no references and look a bit of a mess, suggest it could be produced as a separate list if anybody has a reliable reference, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 14:44, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

51-04 plates being re-used in 2051-2055?!

Some wierd stuff in the table... --109.148.118.64 (talk) 01:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Northern Ireland - L/Derry

Should the Northern Ireland section say Londonderry as it now? or per WP:DERRY should if be Derry? I contend that as a historical reference (introduced in 1903), it should say Londonderry. Since there was an Act of Parliament or Statuary Instrument, specifying the county/city name and code (UI - Londonderry), this is what should be in the article. Snappy (talk) 19:52, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

WP:DERRY is what is used today, to avoid arguments like these. The community decided this was the fairest way to refer to entities - Derry for the city, Londonderry for the county. Regardless of historical references. -- HighKing⁺⁺ 22:41, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

According to WP:DERRY: "Where an entity uses a particular name, regardless of whether it is Derry or Londonderry, use that name for the entity". So if Londonderry (without Derry as an alternative) was used in the name of the office, or council, it should be Londonderry (but it's possible that the office didn't specify its name, only its location). Peter James (talk) 21:14, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

New trade plate system?

I'm seeing vehicles on the British motorways with trade type plates that look to be purely numerical - '064367' format. Does anyone know anything about these? Peridon (talk) 10:52, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Obviously not. Peridon (talk) 18:24, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Table of pre-2001 codes

I'm not too gone on the current layout of the table of pre-2001 codes.

First of all, is it really necessary to include in it the Irish codes, the ones containing I and Z? There's a table for those in the Vehicle registration plates of Ireland article - plus the Northern Ireland codes, which of course are still in use, already have their own table almost immediately below...

Second, the letter Q was and still is reserved for temporary imports - so is it really necessary to include the 'xQ' entries as well?

And third, the entries beside most of the two-letter codes in England, Wales and Scotland are not the original counties or cities - but the Local Vehicle Licensing Office or Vehicle Registration Office, following the early 1980s re-organisation.

There was the big re-organisation of October 1974, of course - and there was another, smaller, re-organisation in 1980/1, which saw some LVLOs/VROs close after only six or seven years, and their codes change hands again. One of these LVLOs/VROs, for instance, was Cambridge, whose codes - CE, EB, ER, JE, VA (transferred from Lanarkshire in '74) and VE - were subsequently issued by Peterborough LVLO on request.

And there were re-organisations and re-allocations between 1963 and 1968, too, as Greater London, Cambridgeshire and Isle of Ely, and Huntingdon and Peterborough were all created - plus the county boroughs of Kirkcaldy, Coatbridge, Solihull, Luton and Torbay, all of which took X codes previously allocated to London.

Finally, more LVLOs/VROs closed in 1996/7 - including London Central, Liverpool, Coventry and Guildford.

So, in effect, there were five time periods during which each code was allocated.

The site below has a table which acknowledges this:

http://www.londonbusroutes.net/miscellaneous/regs.htm

Bluebird207 (talk) 20:21, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Six months and no replies later (I'm not looking for attention here, it's just an observation), I have decided - at the risk of getting into a lot of trouble - to delete the Irish codes from the table, plus the 'xQ' entries.

And when I do, I will add links to the Northern Ireland section of this article (for the table of Northern Ireland codes), and to Vehicle registration plates of the Republic of Ireland (for the full table of Irish codes in that article).

I will point to this discussion in the edit summary, too. Bluebird207 (talk) 02:04, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Three letter codes

Add codes to this list as they are discovered then when complete move into the article:-
KAF Truro
EBZ County Down
AHX Middlesex
QuentinUK (talk) 11:02, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about?

Also, IHX was never issued - 'I' was never used as a serial letter. Bluebird207 (talk) 22:55, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

My mistake, Middlesex is AHX (I've fixed it in the list above) QuentinUK (talk) 08:33, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

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Other formats

03M**** and 08X**** (where **** are digits) - not mentioned here, but are these UK or US military? Peter James (talk) 01:33, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

03MN**** or 03-MN-**** would be a Monaghan plate from the Republic of Ireland, and would be in a a smaller size than UK plates, and black on white front and rear. M and X by themselves aren't used as location indicators in the ROI, though (single letter ones being C, D, G, L, T and W being the only ones listed. What sort of plates were these ones? The colours and styles might help (also what sort of vehicle). Peridon (talk) 19:42, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

YL and YV changed allocations?

http://www.cvpg.co.uk/REG.pdf mentions YV changed from Beverley to Sheffield and YL Sheffield to Leeds but this page mentions their original allocations, and elsewhere the allocations are as listed here. Which would be correct for YL02 registered in Huddersfield by a company with a Doncaster postcode? Peter James (talk) 02:07, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

Trade plates (revisited)

I've added the new numbering system for UK trade plates, with a reference. That's the best one I can see for now, and I can't find the exact date of introduction. If anyone can find this, please put it in. It's in the last year or two. I also can't get the little box illustrating what the plate looks like to show two white spaces to the right of the number. This is where the DVLA authentication bit goes, and as the writing is quite small there, it gives the plate a lopsided look (see ref for illustration).

On another point, I would dispute the accuracy of the existing info on the previous system. I'm on the roads quite a lot, and I've never seen a trade plate with three letters. They are in the format 1234 A or 123 AB with leading zeroes when required (and usually a space between number and letters). The reference says there are, so until I can find something that contradicts it, I'll leave it in. If anyone else can check this out, I'd be grateful. It could be that, originally, it was planned for the three letter ones to be available, but this was dropped when the reversed format for ordinary registrations had to be introduced. Peridon (talk) 19:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

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Broken link in footnote

Footnote 7 should now point to: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/533255/inf104-vehicle-registration-numbers-and-number-plates.pdf --87.112.143.208 (talk) 11:03, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Done. :) Bluebird207 (talk) 11:36, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

Splitting this article?

"Vehicle registration plates of the United Kingdom, Crown dependencies and overseas territories" has always struck me as an excessively long and unwieldy title for a long and unwieldy article. It covers various registration series that basically share nothing in common except for the constitutional relationship between their issuing territories, which does not seem like a compelling reason to concatenate them into a single article. Therefore, I am seeking views on a split.

I don't have strong views as to precisely how many ways the article should be split, just that something needs to be done. As a starting point, I would certainly split out the Crown dependencies and overseas territories. Given that the Isle of Man has already been split out into a separate article, I would be inclined to create two further new articles, one for the Channel Islands, and one for British overseas territories.

That would leave "Vehicle registration plates of the United Kingdom" as a far more logical unit of information; however, even that would still be a very long article, and I think there might be scope for further splitting out some of the in-depth detail on the different systems. After all, although the NI and historic GB systems were originally a common system, they went their separate ways over half a century ago; and the current systems have nothing in common apart from being administered by the same agency. Therefore, I think that NI, GB, and GB (1903—2001) could each legitimately be a separate article, as long as the main UK article continued to provide an adequate overview of each, along with easy navigation to the finer details.

Although this would be a fair bit of work, and may result in some small degree of duplication, I think it would definitely be worthwhile to improve the readability and navigability of the information. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Quackdave (talk) 19:33, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea, certainly split out the Channel Islands and BOTs seems a reasonable thing to do. MilborneOne (talk) 21:03, 27 February 2017 (UTC)