Talk:Isla de la Juventud

Untitled

I removed the prices, because I think it is not very encyclopedic. Prices change too quickly. Pascal 10:51, 17 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Province or municipality?

In the first paragraph, the island is described as "a special municipality of the Province of Havana", yet the last sentence in the article is "The province has only one municipality named also Isla de la Juventud.". These statements appear to contradict each other. Could someone with more knowledge of the situation clarify? -- nknight 18:30, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Current Prisons on Isla de Juventud

Amnesty International List of Prisoners

List of Prisons on the island:

   *  Prison El Guayabo MIS Island of Youth
   * Center for Reeducation of Minors COR Island of Youth
   * Correctional Los Colonos COR Island of Youth
   * Paquito Rosales Cueto (1 y 11) COR Island of Youth
   * Prison la 60 (Columbia) COR Island of Youth

from Cuba-Junky.com

Apparently, there is also another El Guayabo Prison, now closed, in Costa Rica.

--Jpbrenna 06:34, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

It is completely disgusting

that whateverhisnameis has compared Matos's claims to the WMD controversy. you can't tar this guy as a Batistiano, and he has absolutely no reason to lie about it (last time I checked, he wasn't really well-known -- didn't really gain anything, did he?) to think otherwise, you'd have to be a Castro sympathizer, which I think can be fairly concluded from this particular group of users' rabid reversion of all my edits. J. Parker Stone 02:52, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Your drawing conclusions like this is original research. Look, I arrived at a useful compromise. I attributed the torture allegation to an individual, Huber Matos. You reverted it. Why? Have others made allegations they were tortured on the island? Fine, then come back with citations. Thanks. Viajero 10:58, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

I have to agree with Viajero. Yesterday, I removed a reference to a "parody court" in the article about George Papadopoulos. There have been numerous poltical trials where evidentiary standards were weak, charges fabricated and the motivations for prosecution purely political. (See Witold Pilecki for one example). Still, "kangaroo court" is a decidedly POV phrase. You could discuss specific problems with the case, and if you have quote from Matos where he calls it a kangaroo court, then you could include it. --Jpbrenna 16:01, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Spanish or English title?

Why is the title of the article in English? The name of the island is 'Isla de la juventud', right? Is there a Wikirule about this? I understand that you can't always use the original name, for example the article about the Netherlands shouldn't be called 'Nederland', but this somehow seems different. In the Cuba article the province is named in Spanish, as are all the other provinces. And the article on Pinar del Rio isn't called 'Pineforest of the river' nor the one on Santiago de Cuba 'Holy Jacob of Barrel' :). The only reason to use an English name seems to me that it has been in use for a long time, such as 'the Netherlands' (which is indeed antiquated because the Netherlands has been one single country for a long time now, so it should be singular as in Dutch). DirkvdM 18:19, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)

No reactions after three weeks, so I've moved the page. DirkvdM July 8, 2005 09:14 (UTC)

This is the English wiki version, so no we're not supposed to use the Spanish name. J. Parker Stone 9 July 2005 07:09 (UTC)

You ignore my argumentation. All the other provinces/municipalities are in Spanish. Why is this one in English? It would have been nice if you would have commented here before reverting my move and previous edit. DirkvdM July 9, 2005 07:38 (UTC)

sorry about that, but i think your aforementioned examples are something else entirely -- "Pineforest of the River" indeed sounds weird, but "Isle of Youth" sounds perfectly natural. and "Santiago de Cuba" -- now of course we're not gonna be totally literal on "Santiago," and "de Cuba" is just to specify it's not the Chilean capital. J. Parker Stone 9 July 2005 07:47 (UTC)

Of course I was jesting in those instances. But you still ignore my main argumantation that all the others are in Spanish. What's different about this one? DirkvdM July 9, 2005 08:04 (UTC)

looking at the other provinces, it looks like the other provinces' names are unique, whereas this is just "Isle of [something]" J. Parker Stone 9 July 2005 08:11 (UTC)

Ok, that's an argument. But why is it then not 'Isle of Juventud'? Also, the same goes for Ciudad de la Habana (Havana City). The explanation is given in the translation that 'ciudad' means 'city', but the name that is used is still the Spanish one. Same with 'Villa Clara', which, by your reasoning, should be translated as 'Clara Estate'. Well, I think I see your point, namely that this sounds more like a unique name, whereas Isla de la Juventud sounds more like a description. But the ultimate argument would be, I suppose, as I mentioned, a tradition of giving this island an English name. If such a tradition exists, so if the island has had an English name (and exactly this English name) for at least a century (preferably more), then that would settle it. DirkvdM July 9, 2005 10:38 (UTC)

I just Googled both 'isla de la juventud' and 'isle of youth' in English pages and they score 30.000 and 33.000 respectively, so 10% more for the English version, but that's too close to resolve it. But then, if that is to decide it, and it doesn't, then consistency seems to be the decisive argument. DirkvdM July 9, 2005 13:01 (UTC)

No more reaction after a few days. Have I 'won' this? Let's try another edit. DirkvdM 10:35, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Diego is James not Jacob; Cuba is derived from the Taino Cubanacán (which is believed to mean not the whole island but only middle), not from the Spanish Cubo or bucket (not barrel); the old English name for Isla de Pinos is Isle of Pines. Castro apparently used it not only for prisions but to keep kidnapped children hostages from the Polisario front (they are still in Cuba) and re-named it Isle of Youth. For a short time Guantanamo was an English possession called Cumberland however on a march seeking further conquest, most of the English and Colonial troops died of fever. Castro has re-divided the provinces to resemble the Spanish military divisions during the Wars on Independence. Castro named one of these mini-provinces Granma (beleived derived from grandma), after the ship he used for his landing. Oh yes by the way that awful looking tower by the Jose Marti statue as well as the rest of the plaza was built by Batista (Batista is said to have gotten at 10% cut of all new construction. Thus most of the tall reinforced concrete buildings (such as the FOCSA) one sees in Havana, as well as the tunnels under Havana Bay and the Almendares River were built at that time. The tunnels made it possible for Batista to move tanks readily from one side of Havana to another, fat lot of good it did him..... Many of the cobblestones by the docks in Havana, are Swedish they were ballast brought back during WWI when sugar was "snuck" past; the German U-boats into Liverpool. Oh yes also by the way in WWII the Cuban Navy got a Nazi submarine, much to the surprise of the Cuban Navy, their US trainers, and of course the poor drowned Germans sailors...(El Jigüe, 9/24/2005)

Totally true. There are NOT such pine forest anywhere but in the fantasies of the author. Just a few spots spared from lumbering in the past. The large lumber industry is another wild fantasy. By the way, is it possible to fix the area of the Isle? It is 2,204 square kilometers, not three thousands. Whoever wrote it, please next time try better sources. Another cubano August 25 2006

The article is inaccurate

I don't know where did the person who wrote the article get the information.

The island is NOT covered by pine forests and there is NOT a large lumber industry. There are NOT MANY beaches and resorts; except for Colony Hotel, the rest of them don't deserved to be mentioned. Bibijagua beach is the one with black sands, but it is not very clean. The Kometa hidrofoils are ancient history now. The south of the island is a preserved area, mostly covered by swamps. There are some beaches there, but are not currently for tourism, you need a special permission to visit the area.

Could someone update the article with fresh info?

--UnCubano 02:29, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

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Name change???

Why did the name change in 1978 takethemud 19:40, 9 February 2006 (UTC)takethemud

I was about to ask the same thing. Anyone? --Awiseman 19:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

From the German Wiki: "Nach der kubanischen Revolution sollte die landwirtschaftliche Entwicklung auf der Insel vorangetrieben werden. Zu diesem Zwecke kamen viele tausend junge Leute, vor allem aus Ländern der Dritten Welt zum Lernen und Arbeiten auf die Isla, was die symbolträchtige Namensänderung in Jugendinsel (1978) erklärt. Die meisten der zahlreichen Internatsschulen sind heute verwaist."

Rough translation: Many thousands youth came to the island after the cuban revolution, mainly from the third world, in order to help with the economic develompent of the region, and as students as well. The island was named in their honour --Qyd 02:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, can you add something like that? What's their source? --Awiseman 15:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I am Cuban, and geologist. Not a bad one. I've walked this island throughfully. I heve been in Bibijagua beach many times. Thanks God it was before the author discovered a volcano there! Seriously, the sands in Bibijagua beach are dark but NOT VOLCANIC! And by the way, the beach is not a very good one. There are others way better in the Island, which is beautiful.

This island is missing from Google Maps

I know it's something that can't be fixed by posting here, but I've e-mailed the friendly folks at Google and my pleas have gone unheard. Check for this island on the map viewed at http://maps.google.com/, and as of now (28 September 2005), it can't be found...

   (Yes, I'm obsessive compulsive, and FWIW, that has some useful aspects to it. [As the expression goes, "Get over it, get used to it.")
--Jerzy•t 04:26, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

&;&; Oh, and also, it sometimes contributes, in synergy with typical aging, to my losing my train of thot; sorry abt that. I meant to note that I am not the contributor of the dated but unsigned talk contrib above mine ... although that colleague is actually one of the johnnycome latelys around here....
--Jerzy•t

Population

The statistics box says 86,559. The article says about 100,000. Am i missing something?

-According to cuban census 2001 ([1]), it's 86,559. Qyd^(talk)20:59, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Should be named in English

The general principle is that whenever there is a convention of calling something by its English name, we should use that name in Wikipedia. Hence, we have Florence, Turin, the Hague etc (rather than Fiorenzi, Torino...). The link I followed to this page was certainly in English "Isle of Youth", so that rule should be applied - even if, as pointed out above, it produces inconsistency with other provinces. There's a precedent: Corsica has its English name (not Corse), even though all the other French régions are named in French (Ile de France, not Isle of France, for example). Stevage 15:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

But Corsica, Cologne, Florence, Seville, etc. are all very old names that have been used for centuries. The "Isle of Youth" didn't even have that name until 1978, so I don't think the Corsica precedent is of much help. On the other hand, Isle of Youth rolls of the English tongue better, so that will probably win regardless of the logic. Question though - do other languages do the same thing to English place names? For example, do the French have their own version of, say, Liverpool? Or do only English speakers change names ot make them sound more domestic?

Nah, American cities have names in other languages - like Nueva York is Spanish for New York. It seems kind of random - we started calling Ivory Coast Cote d'Ivoire awhile ago, but we still call it India, not Bharat. I think Isle of Youth is fine --AW 23:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Londres. --Zleitzen 23:28, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Area

In the article, it says 3,056 km². Yet in the statistics box, the figure is 2,419.27 km². According to the Web Site of the Government of the Republic of Cuba, http://www.cubagob.cu/ingles/otras_info/dpa/cc0916.pdf, the area is 2 419 km². And the Cuban national statistics bureau (Oficina Nacional de Estadísticas), at http://www.one.cu/aec2006/anuariopdf2006/capitulo1/I.3.pdf, likewise states the total area as 2 419 km², which includes 215 km² of adjacent keys (cayos adyacentes). Where did this 3056 figure come from? I was about to change it, but since I noticed it in the other language Wikipedias, I just thought I'd ask where it came from. Can someone please clear this up? Thank you. A Gate Through The Past 00:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Renaming

I will rename the article to Isla de la Juventud - as it is by far the most commonly used name in English. See The World Factbook ( a government body, I might add) here, Lonely Planet here, etc. I've never seen it being called the Isle of Youth on any map. Óðinn 23:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Excellent. Now, I noticed when I search for this article, "juventud" must be typed capitalized or else it will go to a search page. Any way to fix this? Also, should there be a disambiguation page since an article about their baseball team, of the same name, exists? I don't mean to give you extra work, but I don't know how to do this. Thanks. A Gate Through The Past 00:56, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I know of no general way of fixing such trouble; but I added a redirect from Isla de la juventud, which hopefully fixes this instance.-JoergenB (talk) 17:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

american dad

This was the island that was mentioned on american dad. Now why did they show that the island has a different ruler then cuba (other answers beyond it being a stupid cartoon) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.103.158.84 (talk) 15:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Platt Amendment Mention

The article specifically mentions that the Island's ownership was not mentioned in the Platt Amendment but I believe it was.

Article VI of the Platt Amendment:

"That the Isle of Pines shall be omitted from the proposed constitutional boundaries of Cuba, the title thereto being left to future adjustment by treaty"

Hope this can be sorted out.

136.167.157.192 (talk) 06:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

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History section

   I think i saved w/o summarizing, after breaking the second graph, for which novalid topic sentence could be imagined, into two independent 'graphs, each itself unified. Jerzy•t 01:41, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

   I seem to have edited the article via my IP address some minutes ago. (But I'm not sure whether I have still more to say abt it.)
--Jerzy•t 03:53, 18 December 2018 (UTC)