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DavidWBrooks and SixSix, I note that you have different approaches to describing trail length, each of which has merit. I suggest:
In the lead sentence, say: "The Appalachian National Scenic Trail, generally known as the Appalachian Trail or simply the A.T., is a 2,200-mile (3,500 km) marked hiking trail...". This is a true statement to twosignificant figures that is persistent.
In the infobox and lower in the lead, use: "2,194 miles (3,531 km) as of 2022", since this is supported by the AT Conservancy source. This is a true statement to four significant figures that is transitory. (2,194.3 miles is overly precise.)
I hope that this resolves the potential for a slo-mo edit war!
Fine by me - the only drawback is that the infobox will become incorrect as the official length changes. The length is semi a guess, anyway; it's not like anybody has taken a measuring wheel along the whole place, so listing it to four significant digits is kind of silly, regardless what the offical source says. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 21:37, 15 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
DavidWBrooks, I concur about the accuracy of the measurement, which is also affected by the length of each segment used to measure the whole if there were to be a complete measurement. This is an example of relying on a source. Precision is a different concept than accuracy—it reflects the repeatability of the measurement even if it is inaccurate. I think two significant figures is fine for the infobox. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 00:12, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
HopsonRoad, I have to say that it currently reads oddly with duplicated measurements - saying "almost 2,200" in the first sentence and 2,194 in the second. I think we could drop the four-digit figure altogether - it's still in the infobox - and just say that the conservancy says it"s the longest etc etc. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 20:15, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
DavidWBrooks, Thanks for the observation. I concur. I hope that I have addressed it to your satisfaction. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 21:05, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The National Park Service uses "the Appalachian Trail" on a web page titled "Appalachian" and subtitled "National Scenic Trail". The logo in the article uses "Appalachian Trail" with a subtitle of "National Scenic Trail". Therefore, I suggest that the lead sentence drop "The Appalachian National Scenic Trail generally known as the Appalachian Trail or simply the A.T. ..." and read simply, "The Appalachian Trail (or the A.T.)..." and add "..is a National Scenic Trail..." . Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 02:54, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I note that this NPS publication makes frequent mention of the "Appalachian NST", referring to the trail post-1968, when the Appalachian Trail became a National Scenic Trail, I still advocate for the above with a later mention of "Appalachian National Scenic Trail" under the principle of MOS:LEADCLUTTER. Perhaps the lead in Pacific Crest Trail is a good model for this and the question of length. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 12:23, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Update #2: I was WP:BOLD and made some edits that I hope are satisfactory. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 18:07, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
An article on the Appalachian Trail, and yet there is no mention of Mark Sanford!?[edit]
Why is there not so much as a single mention, of a certain event: How Mark Sanford disappeared for a week, claiming that he had gone "hiking the Appalachian Trail", when in actual fact, he had gone to a mistress he was cheating on his wife with …leading to "hiking the Appalachian Trail" becoming a euphemism for extramarital affairs. 155.4.221.27 (talk) 23:57, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the Mark Sanford extramarital affair has everything to do with Mr. Sanford and clearly nothing to do with the AT, since he wasn't there. Should the article on Buenos Aires make mention of him, because that's where he actually was. I don't think so. It's enough that both venues are mentioned in the article on the subject. HopsonRoad (talk) 00:02, 17 July 2022 (UTC) I see that you are talking about the euphemism and not the event. There is support for that, here, here, and here. HopsonRoad (talk) 01:06, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done I've added mention in an "In popular culture" section. HopsonRoad (talk) 13:36, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It was in the article some years ago but removed by editors who thought it superfluous. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 13:59, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that report, DavidWBrooks. It seems to merit a brief mention in "popular culture", a section found in many geographical articles. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 15:37, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I checked the Talk archive: The initial "why isn't it here?" came in 2009 but it wasn't added; the next query came in 2013 and apparently it got added, only to have an editor remove it in 2016. From my point of view the brief mention that was just added seems fine. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 14:32, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Lucthedog2, thank you for your interest in this topic! I note that 17 new entries in the "Major intersections" section in Grayson and Smyth Counties and near Atkins, Virginia appear to be crossing state roads. I wonder if it is right to consider them "major"? I can think of many state highway crossings just in Vermont and New Hampshire that would blow up this list, if they were included. I suggest that crossings of state roads should be rare in this list. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 01:07, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
well its just people have a better chance of getting a ride at these roads then others. Lucthedog2 (talk) 01:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
or maybe we should just do us highways and interstates but before i started doing state highways there was already one in the list which was new hampshire 16 Lucthedog2 (talk) 01:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your prompt and considerate reply, Lucthedog. I suggest that it's fine to list a state highway here after a long stretch of wilderness. Otherwise, as an encyclopedia, one wouldn't expect every detail of a subject to appear in an article—just the major examples. If it seemed important to have every trail crossing, one could do a list article, e.g. "List of Appalachian Trail road crossings," which would be referenced from this article. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 13:32, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok so like or major state highways would be fine. Lucthedog2 (talk) 14:55, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
i think just the major state highways so no secondary ones would be better Lucthedog2 (talk) 15:05, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think a conversation needs to happen about which roads qualify as "major". I agree with @HopsonRoad that state roads should be rare in this list. Obviously, the longest wilderness section is the Hundred-Mile Wilderness, but there are only a few unimproved roads that pass through that section, and as a former thru-hiker of the A.T., I would not classify any of them as being "major", as none of them are improved.
In my opinion, we should only consider unimproved roads in wilderness areas only if they are 20 trail miles or more from the previous road (from a northbound perspective). The fact that the Hundred-Mile Wilderness is the longest stretch of trail without major intersections does not mean we should include any road which passes through it. In fact, I think this emphasizes that it should not be included. I don't want uninformed readers to come away from this article thinking that a certain road is "major" when in fact it has no services and is not easily accessible. In my view this is irresponsible and can potentially put one's safety at risk.
Additionally, I believe roads in the following categories should generally be included:
All Interstate Highways
All US Highways
State highways, if they are the only improved road which crosses the trail at a distance of at least 10 miles from any Interstate or US Highway, or are 4 lanes.
Other improved roads if they are a distance of at least 15 miles from the previously listed road
Unimproved roads, but only if they are at a distance of 20 miles or more from the previously listed road and are major resting, starting/stopping, popular access points for long-distance hikers, or if they have readily-available services such as resupply points or lodging nearby. From my memory, I don't think there are any roads along the trail which meet these criteria, but I could be wrong.
For example, Neels Gap (US 19) and Stecoah Gap (GA 17/GA 75) would be included, but Hogpen Gap (GA 348) would not.
The reason I have selected 15 and 20 trail miles for distance is because this is roughly one or two days' hike, depending on terrain and ability. Additionally, I think we should consider distance from previous roads from a northbound perspective as most thru-hikers hike that direction and considering distance from both directions may exclude roads which should otherwise be included. I also realize it is hard to quantify things like "accessibility", but basing it on things like it being improved/unimproved or distance from other roads is as good of a barometer as we can have.
If it turns out this is not stringent enough I am happy to have a conversation about having more restrictive criteria. Also I would suggest in the future moving this section to a new article which could be more liberal with which roads are included.
Thank you for these thoughts, Symetrical. Your criteria appear to be good. It would be interesting to see what it does to the list length.
The only thought that I have regarding included categories is whether to include interstate highway crossings; they certainly don't qualify as "intersections". If the main criterion is to indicate major places where a hiker can join or depart the trail, interstates are as irrelevant as rail lines. In some cases, the listing shows a coincidental US highway, which should be retained. Choosing this criterion, one could explain that "The AT crosses twelve interstate highways, which do not afford an opportunity to join or depart the trail."
Thanks for your reply. It is true that the trail cannot be accessed directly from the interstate, but I think roads such as these should still be included as they still used as routes to get to the trail (for the purpose of getting to a road which does have trail access), and also are important landmarks or milestones for many long distance hikers. A note such as the one you suggested would be a good clarification and I think it should be included. I don't necessarily think the main criterion should be whether the trail can be accessed from a particular road, rather that it should be considered alongside other factors such as that Interstates and major highways serve as important milestones or landmarks for many.
Thanks for your reply, Symetrical. That's fine with me. However, it seems that we should use the term "crossings" rather than "intersections". "Intersection" implies access from either direction. All intersections are crossings, but not all crossings are intersections. Cheers, HopsonRoad (talk) 13:44, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't necessarily think it implies access, but either term seems suitable to me. Perhaps we could use the term "road crossings" since the list doesn't include other trails that the A.T. intersects, as of right now they are listed in #See also. Adding them to this section would unnecessarily complicate things because several major hiking trails intersect the A.T. more than once each.
A cursory glance at some of the more famous trails in List of long-distance footpaths seems to indicate that this doesn't have much precedent, both in terms of content or nomenclature, but none of the articles I looked at seemed particularly fleshed out. This has me thinking it may be better to spin this off into a separate article since it seems incidental to the main content, but I think that's a conversation for the future.
It might take me a while to find the time to start working on these changes but I hope to get to it fairly soon.
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Done I've added mention in an "In popular culture" section. HopsonRoad (talk) 13:36, 17 July 2022 (UTC)