Talk:Tugboat hitch

Missing diagram

There is no diagram

Wrong reference

The references to animations are both to the same knot, but it is not the lighterman's hitch

Diagram arrangement

Great images, but if they could be arranged horizontally then we'd avoid all the wasted whitespace. --Hooperbloob 16:11, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I'll work on making the image more editable. I'm considering breaking each step into a separate image, then we can place them in a table and re-arrange them at will. — Ke6jjj 19:49, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Incorrectness of diagram

This is a response to the query posed by Ke6jjj in his 2006-11-07 19:47:34UTC edit regarding issues with the current diagram.

As a preliminary note, the name "Tugboat hitch" is not one that I've found listed in any of the fair number of knot reference books I have access to. As noted in the article, this towing/mooring knot is referred to by Ashley as a Backhanded mooring hitch (#1795). In other sources it is shown as the Lighterman's hitch or Capstan hitch. Though I did find "Tugboat hitch" on a couple websites this article should probably be renamed to one of these other names; I'd probably go with Ashley's name myself. But that's a bit of a side issue at this point...

Regarding the current diagram Image:Tugboat-hitch.png:

• In most sources this knot is shown being tied around a vertical post, bollard, or sailboat winch.
• The mooring/towing knot is never shown being made by threading the end around back and forth across the standing part. The knot most closely related to the knot currently illustrated is shown in ABOK as #2046. Though Ashely does not give it a proper name the description is prefaced with "To hitch to a stanchion..." While #2046 is indeed a useful knot, it just isn't the one normally used for towing, mooring, making fast to a winch, etc. It requires the end, which is not a convenient requirement when dealing with long hawsers, etc.
• A proper Backhanded mooring hitch is illustrated at [1] near the bottom of the page. The method there is more or less the same as described by Ashley for #1795. The Complete Rigger's Apprentice by Brion Toss shows the "Capstan hitch" with bights being used at each step, rather than alternating with simple turns — but the result is quite similar.

Incidentally, Ke6jjj, your diagrams are quite nice looking; I used them on the buntline hitch page. It just looks like this one needs correction. Personally I've had pretty good luck using compound images with several steps shown in one image, it makes the formatting simpler though at the cost of some flexibility. Actually your Slipped buntline hitch image is a good example, or see Constrictor knot#Tying for an example with photos. --Dfred 18:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Dfred! I will work on making a corrected illustration. Unfortunately, however, something isn't right with you current "link" to the correct source. It seems to point to your personal list of Wikipedia edits. — Ke6jjj 06:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Oops, looks like I had the wrong URL in my paste buffer when I added that link to the article. Thanks...

BTW, upon rereading the my statements about #2046 (tied with end) not being used for towing, mooring it is possible I overstated that particular point. I'm not sure whether that method is used for these purposes or not. It's just that the bight method is the only one specifically recommended in the sources I have access to, and it is much more convenient in practice... --Dfred 14:50, 13 November 2006 (UTC)