Talk:William Vesey-FitzGerald, 2nd Baron FitzGerald and Vesey

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Untitled[edit]

I've moved the page to his senior title and the correct capitalisation of "FitzGerald", but sources differ on whether "Vesey-FitzGerald" should be hyphenated. Does anyone have an authoritative source on that? Proteus (Talk) 11:05, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What's your source that the G should be capitalised? The Dictionary of National Biography spells it "Fitzgerald". Donald, 20.45, 26 April 2005 (BST)

Cracroft's Peerage has both the Irish (FitzGerald and Vesey) and UK (FitzGerald) peerages as "FitzGerald", and it's also my experience that when there's any dispute as to whether the bit after "Fitz" in a "FitzSomething" surname is capitalised, it usually is (since people (including various respectable publications like the DNB) are far more likely to drop the capital than add it). Proteus (Talk) 19:55, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and I checked the DNB today and it uses "Fitzgerald" for the Dukes of Leinster as well, which is clearly not right. Proteus (Talk) 18:46, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

H'm. So is there any actual rationale for using the capital or not, or do we just go with the way the family (presently) spells it? We have Petty-FitzMaurice Marquess of Lansdowne, FitzClarence Earl of Munster and FitzRoy Duke of Grafton, but Fitzroy Duke of Cleveland, Fitzalan-Howard Duke of Norfolk and Fitzwilliam Earl Fitzwilliam. Is the capitals-in-the-middle usage a recent innovation (as in the last seventy-odd years)? I never seem to have seen it in any old reference books, except in cases where a hyphen is also used. Donald, 1.20 a.m., 8 May 2005 (BST)

It's the small letter that's an innovation. Whilst the Dukes of Norfolk are currently Fitzalan-Howards, the pre-Howard Earls of Arundel were FitzAlans. In the names of noble families, which tend to preserve things like this more than normal people do, the small letter is generally the exception rather than the rule (the Dukes of Cleveland were almost certainly FitzRoys, but the Earls Fitzwilliam were indeed Fitzwilliam). I suppose people in England just weren't used to mid-surname capitals (unlike the Scots, for instance, who had "MacSomething" names galore), and so tended to drop them (and still do, in many cases). Proteus (Talk) 11:52, 8 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]