Talk:The Notorious Byrd Brothers

Fricke liner notes

Is this available to read online?--Ilovetopaint (talk) 22:22, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Sorry for the late reply, I've been away on holiday. Umm...I don't think they would be available online, possibly because of copyright concerns??? Were you asking with regard to the, "It came to be widely regarded as one of the Byrds' best LP releases, as well as their most experimental and progressive" sentence, which I see you've twice now put a "text integrity tag" next to? If so, I'll have a look at Fricke's booklet essay and quote the relevant bits verbatim for you, if you'd like? --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 18:58, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

@Kohoutek1138: Yeah I'd also like a direct quote regarding the genres. I noticed that the other source mentions "chamber pop", yet that wasn't included in the text, which makes me think that it was arbitrarily replaced with "baroque pop" (saying that this album "contains elements of baroque pop" is a big red flag; it doesn't, really).--Ilovetopaint (talk) 06:51, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

I'll check the notes, but I'm happy to replace baroque pop with chamber pop, if the Fricke source doesn't specifically name that genre. Though it may well do. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 15:47, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

@Ilovetopaint: I took a look at Fricke's liner notes: he describes the album's second track ("Goin' Back") as, "a baroque pop masterpiece that floated to heaven on wisps of pedal steel and harpsichord", which is possibly where the mention of baroque pop comes from. In addition, he also describes the album as a whole as "reconfiguring the rich catalog of styles and traditions in [the Byrds'] trademark sound", and then makes reference to "McGuinn's folk-rock 12-string Rickenbacker" and "Hillman's country and bluegrass influence" as examples of those 'styles and traditions'.

Tim Conners' article on the Byrdwatcher site also references "Goin' Back" by saying "Like most of the Notorious tracks, it's leavened with hints of country (the pedal steel of Red Rhodes), electronic rock (a Moog synthesizer), and Sgt. Pepper-style chamber pop (a celeste, cello and harp)." Conners also cites "Natural Harmony" as a song that showed "that Crosby was not the only Byrd with an interest in jazz", clearly meaning that it is a jazz-influenced song.

However, the source that actually best supports the Wikipedia article's second sentence is reference #27 -- pages 240-247 of Johnny Rogan's Timeless Flight. Rogan writes, "The Notorious Byrd Brothers displayed the Byrds at the height of their creative powers and psychedelic experimentation. Their achievement on the album lay in creating a seamless mood piece from blending a variety of different musical sources ... jazz and psychedelia ("Natural Harmony"), country picking and psychedelic rock ("I Wasn't Born to Follow"), country and baroque pop ("Old John Robertson"), folk rock and the Moog synthesizer ("Space Odyssey").

So, my suggestion would be to move the Rogan reference to the end of the article's second sentence -- it may have been there originally and has gotten moved by another editor over time, or maybe I simply forgot it. Anyway, by moving the Rogan reference to support that sentence, I think all of those genres mentioned are covered, with two of the sources (Rogan & Connors) describing the blending of different styles or genres on the record. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 17:16, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Sensible stuff here. I think Rogan is the leader in Byrdology, and his comments are spot on. However, he has made serious changes to the original Timeless flight book, two huge doorstops - Requiem For The Timeless Vols 1 and 2Muso805 (talk) 10:08, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

"genre warring"

Funnily enough Kohoutek1138, I think there'd probably be a good deal less "genre warring" if you actually bothered to make the supporting claims visible anywhere in the article. A friendly tip. gentlecollapse6 (talk) 15:46, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Sorry Gentlecollapse6, I've only just seen this message (I haven't been on Wiki for a few days). I get your point and I see in the guidelines over at Template: Infobox album it suggests that genres should "be stated and referenced in the body of the article", rather than in the infobox itself (unless they are controversial genres, I assume). I'll take a look at the article, and if that's not the case, I'll rectify it. It shouldn't be hard to do: it's not like we're suggesting the album is something unlikely such as Garage Rock or Synth Pop. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 19:37, 9 January 2021 (UTC)