Talk:Porto

Image Size

I reduced the image size of [Porto3flat-cc-contr-oliv1002_edit2.jpg] from 1000px to 700x to fit within the article width. As always, readers who would like to see this image at full resolution can simply click on it. Ssredg (talk) 00:44, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

The Ogre removes images

AN USER WITH THE ABOVE NAME IS CONSTANTLY REMOVING IMAGES IN THIS ARTICLE. IS THERE ANYWAY THIS USER COULD BE PREVENTED FROM DOING SO. THANK YOU —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.20.14.180 (talk) 13:05, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

PLEASE DO NOT SHOUT! Wikipedia is not a gallery! This article already has plenty of pictures, it does not need any more superfluous images. Please do not add images ad nauseam! Thank you! The Ogre (talk) 14:23, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

AN EXTRA TWO IMAGES WILL IN NO WAY JEOPARDISE THE INTEGRITY OF THIS PARTICULAR ARTICLE 92.20.14.180 (talk) 18:36, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

92.20.14.180: you seem to be challenged by the English language. ICE77 (talk) 05:23, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Images

If anyone wants to add new pictures, please do so in the gallery. The article looked incredibly overloaded with too many pictures scattered everywhere until very recently, the last I'd want would be to have the page this mess again. However, if anyone wants to provide a photo from a university building for the education section, I'd appreciate that (and save me a trip to the architecture campus). ^wS;✉ 00:08, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Definitely more text needed to fit the photos well. Porto is a beautiful city but as text stands right now it's impossible to fit more photos. New material in photos - ie - more recent, are severely needed. These photos are either outdated or of outdated quality, not nearly doing justice to the real look of the city.

J.K. Rowling

I moved J.K. Rowling from Notable Citizens, since she wasn't one, to the trivia section. The Notable Citizens would be more fitting for famous Portuenses.Vogensen 18:57, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Temperature

I have to say that as a Portuense I very seldom experienced 40 degrees in the city.... does anyone have data on temperature averages.. doesn't seem correct. But I might be wrong.

You know what? dumb foreigners travel to the Algarve and think the whole Portugal is like the Algarve, it's a common bias. Northern Portugal has rather maritime temperate weather than Mediterranean weather. The weather in Porto is quite mild and rainy. Temperatures of 40 degrees are rare, maybe more often felt in a summer in Central Europe than in Porto. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.214.25.42 (talk) 01:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Metro

I just reverted an edit which intimated the metro line to the airport was already running. It isn't. Or am I going to get a shock when I jump on the train in the morning? Deizio 23:15, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Porto

The Porto project is now live. Anyone with an interest in Porto-related content ideas is very welcome to sign up and participate. Hope to see you there, Deizio 16:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Galiza Sul (Regiao Norte)

I think that it is frequently overlooked the strong cultural and ethnic ties that link the Regiao Norte with Galicia (Galiza in Galician-Portuguese language)as for centuries they were the same country and even today the similarities are appalling. Does not even the very name Galicia come from this part of nowdays Portugal? It is said that this relationship has been alienated by the shared need from Lisbon and Madrid to impose the borders over the reality of a common culture and (almost) similar language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maeloc (talk • contribs)

It's been said so, but that's rubbish. When Portugal appeared, it *consisted* precisely of the modern northern region. It took long for the whole south to be conquered and the seat of power to migrate south. And, though the portuguese and the galicians have a shared genesis, Portugal was established precisely as a reaction against galician nobility; Portugal was a border area, subject to arab raids, and eager to be its own master, while [the then rest of] Galicia was buffered and quiet, more interested in dinastic power struggles among the other iberian kingdoms. In time, this led to an independent Portugal which was able to perdure to the present, whereas the galician nobility was finally vanquished by the spanish and Galicia was relegated to the status of a rural province. As to the language, besides quite a few centuries of isolation, Galician has been under especially acute diglossia. If it survives, and that is a big if, there is little reason why both varieties can't reunite, but it would have to be done with respect for each one. 85.241.120.11 (talk) 23:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

The traffic in Porto is not that bad. In fact when comparing with Lisbon it's amazing...--LeRobert 21:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Intro section and Transportation

I removed too much information about Port wine in the introduction. This article is about Porto, which aside from its name has little to do with Port wine these days. Also, I added some requests for citations for some statements. For instance, was Portugal named after Porto or was it the other way around? Different people I have spoken to seem to disagree on this point. Sources are needed.

I also removed the sentence "It is the seat of the Porto district and capital of the Norte region." which I believe only a few english speaking people will understand. Seat of what? The reference to it being Capital do Norte is repeated later anyway.

Also, I think the transportation section should refer to the metro as a completed project. It is basically finished as far as I know and has been fully adopted by area residents. Also, don't the buses run on natural gas? That is fairly ecofriendly and should be mentioned. If no one edits, I will edit later, will also add more to this section.

Oh, and there are nonstop flights from Porto to Toronto and Newark, NJ; so you don't have to go to Lisbon anymore to get to North America.

Added an informative climate section. Maybe too informative. Feel free to cut down. Someone should add something about geography. It's very hilly like Lisbon and San Francisco, and city residents have one of the lowest rates of heart disease in Europe. Also, Porto residents never get tired of walking and its fun to pace around the city even if you have nowhere specific to go.

Problems: Someone should describe the problem with residents leaving the city for the suburbs. Baixa (midtown) is still pretty crowded during the day but gets empty at night except for a few special bars districts. Before the metro and suburban trains, this was putting strain on the public transportation system. I also heard the city is trying to make owners pay for renovations of abandoned houses in the center, sounds like the city should be subsidizing this.

--Dba5 19:22, 16 August 2006 (UTC)dbandrade

Well, as far as I know, and the article seems to oppose that idea, the name Portugal actually comes from the combination of Portus (Porto) with Cale (nowadays Vila Nova de Gaia). The fact that it comes more recently from the name Portucale doesn't reject the hypothesis. Actually, Portucale also comes from Porto. So, Portus + Cale —> Portucal —> Portugal. What is called popular belief in the article is defended by most (if not all) historians. I think that statement should be corrected. Malafaya 09:03, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Porto and Portugal

The country of Portugal was not (contrary to popular but unfounded beliefs) named after this city and is on the contrary an etymological evolution of the original name, the county of Portucale. The county of Portucale was named after the city of Portucale aka Porto.--Pedro 19:21, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

There was a city called Portus Calem in that area, but it isn't certain to have been Oporto.

85.241.120.11 (talk) 23:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Cale was a small city where now is Gaia. Right in front of it was erected another city, name portucale, meaning port of cale... and county was named obviously named after the city, not the other way around!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Couto 4 (talk • contribs) 11:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, even if the true localion of Portus Cale would be unknown (theoretically). That says nothing about this fact, as Portugal was named after Porto in the Middle Ages, not in the Roman period. As Porto would be just a village like many others during the empire. -Pedro (talk) 11:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Irrational

In a study concerning competitiveness of the 18 Portuguese district capitals, Porto was the worst-ranked. The study was made by Minho University economics researchers and was published in Público newspaper on 30th September 2006. The best-ranked cities in the study were Évora, Lisbon and Coimbra.[3] Although, the validity of this study was questioned by some Porto's notable figures (such as local politicians and businesspersons) who argued that the city proper do not functions independently but in conurbation with other municipalities.[4] This point of view cannot harm the research study by itself, which was made in accordance with the criteriously selected World Economic Forum scientific methodology[5], because the same situation is what exactly happens with other higher ranked cities, like Lisbon, which were similarly considered alone without its satellite cities or towns.

This is not rational because of simple facts:

• not only Lisbon was in that study and no other district capitals functions like Lisbon and Porto
• the conurbantion of Porto is different from Lisbon's and can not be compared. The city of Porto proper is very old and small.
• it isn't NPOV nether, and contradicts itself in the last sentence: "because the same situation is what exactly happens with other higher ranked cities, like Lisbon, which were similarly considered alone without its satellite cities or towns" who said this? What is wikipedia to contradict geographers and economists? Besides Lisbon which cities are those?! --Pedro 19:26, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Who argues about studies?

Clearly, "this study was questioned by some Porto's notable figures (such as local politicians and businesspersons)" answers the question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.180.3.163 (talk) 15:20, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Population

The population figure of 326,654 given in the article is wrong. INE (Instituto Nacional de Estatísica) presents the following figures: 263,131 (2001) and 238,954 (estimated 2004/12/31). Portuguese Wikipedia uses the former. I couldn't find figures for 2006. It is well known that the municipality of Porto has been facing serious decline in resident population. Cigsandalcohol 08:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Nortenho accent

It's stupid to say that "they are known throughout the country for their "nortenho" accent". Noone in the north calls it "nortenho accent"... (And, I dare say, the north is part of the country...) If it were "people from the north are known in the south because of their "Nortenho accent"" it'd make sense... But as the opposite is also applied I don't really see the point in making such an assertion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LeRobert (talk • contribs) 21:58, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

As a Nortenho that left many years ago, I can attest there is indeed a very characteristic accent to our city, and it is actually a bit harsh that the usual on less educated persons.

Special:Contributions ([|talk]]) 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Transportation section

Why does the transportation section begin with a blurb about a bridge that was sabatoged? That should be in the history section. People that read this article want to know about currently available transportation. Also the fact that it has several bridges, is interesting, but not really that relevant. Many things were left out. For instance, someone should mention that taxicabs are usually picked up at praças, instead of hailing, though you can hail (this is different in many places outside europe). Nothing was mentioned about the existing tram lines (i.e. the eletrico, now being expanded), nor the funicular that gets you quickly from the baixa to the ribeira. Fare information needs to be included. It should also be mentioned that traffic congestion is pretty bad (though alot better than it use to be, especially in the evenings and early mornings since fewer and fewer people are living in the city). Also isn't the metro complete? Are they building new lines? In general, the transportation section should quickly convey the 1) methods and options used to travel around the city and their costs, 2) how to get to the city, 3) any pecularities that might help foreigners (for instance, you don't drive in the metro tunnels hah), finally, any interesting facts such as the various bridges etc ...

Hope someone that knows this stuff well can fix it, otherwise I'll do it after some time. --Dba5 12:27, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Population

The figure "2,99 million people in agglomeration" includes the cities of Braga and Guimarães, right?Page Up 19:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

• And Famalicão too. NUTS III Greater Porto, Ave, Cavado and Entre-Douro-e-Vouga, and parts of Tâmega, I believe, they now call it the metropolitan Arc of Porto. it is of course a polycentric area. --Pedro 17:27, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

Sincerely, I don't see the relevance of such figure. The area considered is too broad, so I don't think it makes sense to have it under the article "Porto"... The reference to the source does not justify it as well since the author was just trying to make a point in what homogeneous economic development within regions was concerned. Actually, the text is a mess in what division of territory is concerned: we have city, Greater Metropolitan Area of Porto, Northern Littoral Urban-Metropolitan Region, Greater Porto NUTS III subregion, Norte region, Norte and Norte NUTS II region. Cigsandalcohol 22:04, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

• welcome to Portugal! The country is redefining most of the organization of its territory, so it is normal to be a mess in this period. I bet it is less broad than London or Paris, or Madrid. And those places even use the word "city" for an huge region, that is everything but a city. But that "Northern Littoral Urban-Metropolitan Region" is now pretty much spoken, and often known as "Metropolitan arc", but to use here, we need proper references. This article just needs some attention, and I think that population is useful. --Pedro 22:36, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

External Link

Hello Porto Editors! I figured it might be relevant for you to show - as a supplement to your more factual article - how a traveller presented Porto, using Ponte Luis I as a special angle. So I took the liberty to insert a link to "A Connection in Porto". Keep it if you like. There are no commercial interests behind my initiative. Scribbleman (talk) 17:39, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

External links policy on Advertising and conflicts of interest states You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent, and in this case, you are Terje Raa^[1] . Unfortunately your conflict of interest editing involves contributing to Wikipedia in order to promote yourself and your articles. Such a conflict is strongly discouraged. Your contributions to wikipedia under Scribbleman consist entirely of promoting Terje Raa / bootsnall.com / travellady.com and is considered WP:Spam. Looking through your contributions as a whole, the all seem to be Terje Raa/bootsnall.com/travellady.com related only. Please do not continue adding links to your own websites to Wikipedia. It has become apparent that your account are only being used for spamming inappropriate external links and for self-promotion. Wikipedia is NOT a "repository of links" or a "vehicle for advertising" and persistent spammers will have their websites blacklisted. Any further spamming may result in your account and/or your IP address being blocked from editing Wikipedia. Avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines. You're here to improve Wikipedia -- not just to promote yourself, right? --Hu12 13:29, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Images

Many of the images on this article were either taken out or resized dramatically in a few edits a few days ago. This included a beautiful panoramic shot that was actually a featured picture, and I can't see any reason why such a shot would be taken out. The justification for removing many of these pictures was that there were too many, which was true to an extent, but it seems to have gone too far the other way, and doesn't do justice to Porto. With this in mind I've put back the featured panormaic shot and a few other pictures, as well as resized some of the others. I think it is best if a compromise is reached between how the article was before I put these back in, and how the article was before any of these were taken out. If you have a particular view on this please put a post here. Norman22b (talk) 10:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Red Bull Air Race

Please contribut with good infomation about The Red Bull Air Race in Oporto, a major event in the 21st century. Thanks.Califate123! (talk) 22:47, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

This article as a whole

Wikipedia is not a forum

This discussion starts by showing the impoliteness and lack of civic bases of people of Porto, with their characteristic extreme arrogance and racism, which they try to disguise as quarter’s (bairro) pride (bairrismo, local racism). This is a traditional fact, not an argument. Furthermore, their backward mind of stupid false greatness made the article “incredibly overloaded with too many pictures scattered everywhere” as mentioned under the top Images comment title by WolfenSilva. If they want to shoe pictures, just place them on Picasa, Facebook or anywhere of so many of the sort They are the most envious people in the country and in Europe, copying everything and telling it is their local tradition. Like bull fighting and fado or the popular saints festivals, a clean copy from Lisbon, which today they dare say to be their tradition. The “Queima da Fitas” is another copy, from Coimbra. Port wine has nothing to do with the city and never had. The vineyards are in a delimited area on the region of Trás-os-Montes. It is their landmark. What does it have to do with Porto? For them everything is great in Porto, and if it is not they make it be, like calling Metro to a long and modern streetcar. The problem with Porto is that the city has always been a third class city in the country, right after Coimbra and Évora, and the die from envy sickness. It is still today (just read the comment here under “not rational”. The city never was political important since the beginning of Portugal, and the “Cortes” were always held somewhere else, as in Coimbra or Leiria. Never a king lived or passed a night in the city, so that they very recently invented another monstrous lie: Infante D. Henrique was born in Porto! The unjustifiable pride makes them tell the most stupid inventions about their poor past. All mentions are usually made to elevate the city on prejudice of other places and in spite of the truth. An example is the statement on the main page about a supposed Archbishop of Porto, when the city never had one through its whole history. Therefore, this is a disgraceful lie proving what I just wrote. The story told about Portus Cale or Calem as being Porto and Vila Nova de Gaia is also a paramount lie. Portus Cale was a very small village close to today’s Vila Nova de Gaia. Porto was even smaller and non important place lije so many others. The growing of the city on the last 50 years has been achieved by using the funds that should be applied to develop the regions of Trás-os-Montes and Alentejo, stolen by political corruption and keeping these regions as the most underdeveloped areas in Europe. In another example, I quote this sentence from the article: Porto is often known as Cidade das Pontes (City of Bridges). Meaning that too many bridges have been built a small area owing to political corruption, therefore spoiling the money needed elsewhere, as in the Lisbon area; with a population close to the half of the country’s, there are only two bridges. Money has been applied there instead of on other much more needed areas, only by corruption. Funds used on the city’s development have been stolen by corruption, too. Porto has the highest per capita percentage of crime in the country by far. As an example, Casa da Musica, only used for silly events, cost more than twice the planed budget, openly stolen by the city Mafia. Exactly the same applies to the airport. This article is full of lies misleading whoever reads it and does not know history. This article is trying to rewrite the history of Porto exactly the same way the city developed in the last half century: lies and mafia’s corruption. There are many more lies in the article, but I think there is no need to go on to prove this whole article should be replaced by a correct one written by honest people. The entire thing is a clear fake. Moreover, the whole text is a mess on most subjects. Most people from Porto will disagree, but I have only mentioned well-known hard facts that Porto citizens try to camouflage by deceiving people. The truth above all, and History must be True, not defending private interests. I am only sorry for having had to be so long. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Straydog-1st (talk • contribs) 17:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC) OMG! Friend this is not a blog, you lost your reasoning when comparing the Porto bridges to Lisbon ones. That's not comparable. A bridge in Lisbon is a lot larger than in Porto, so a lot more expensive. Besides, it is in everybody's knowledge that Lisbon is the city that wastes most of the public money, even the poor EU fundings to other regions, which is ridiculous and sad, you know, billions of euros are being spent in Lisbon with little or no relevance, not Porto. Your comparisons of Porto to Coimbra or Evora are just ridiculous, no comment. I'm not Portuan, but please... that sentence sounded so ridiculous. Porto is a pretty safe city. Agree there's maybe some boosterism, which is normal in wikipedia. Can you back your clames with reliable sources. I doubt that... so please... control your anger, this is not the place for city bashing. --Pedro (talk) 00:03, 23 July 2009 (UTC) That is right, this is not a blog as it may seem from most of the comments we can read above. The contradictions and the different opinions, all showing a deep lack of knowledge and a large amount of sectarianism as referred, replacing historical facts with fanatic unfounded opinions. Some arguments fall by themselves, like saying "comparisons of Porto to Coimbra or Evora are just ridiculous" when they are all old cities, the last two with a much higher predominance in the country's past. "A bridge in Lisbon is a lot larger than in Porto, so a lot more expensive" because the river estuary is many-folds wider. Does it mean that the inhabitants do not have the same right to cross the river? Looking for "reliable sources"? Easy, just read any history book, and accept the facts as they are instead of trying to rewrite the history to deceive misinformed people. Please, check up your arguments before you dismiss the facts with displaced and hectic words or ridiculous expressions like "control your anger". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Straydog-1st (talk • contribs) 16:12, 11 December 2010 (UTC) One of the myths about Oporto in Lisbon is that the Metro is overground, when it is mostly (in the city) underground. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.23.68.225 (talk) 16:41, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Porto Surname Origins

The Porto Family Tree branches connect with both the Pagoria Family Tree and the Scalfano Family Tree. The Porto family is also from Caccamo. Connections to the Scalfano and Pagoria Family Trees

The Porto surname history is very interresting. They have their origins in the Piemonte region of what is today Italy and parts of present day Southern France. They were part of a religious sect called the "Valdese"(It.). The Waldensians were followers of Peter Waldo (or Valdes or Vaudes); they called themselves the Poor men of Lyon, the Poor of Lombardy, or the Poor. They were the first Methodist of Europe years before the Reformation was even conceived.

A Christian sect believing in poverty and austerity, they were founded around 1170 promoting true poverty, public preaching and the literal interpretation of the scriptures. Declared heretical, the movement was brutally suppressed by the Roman Catholic church. The group was one of many suppressed by the Roman Catholic Church during the 12th and 13th centuries. Fleeing inquisition and persecution,many "Valdese" escaped to Switzerland and Germany. One group settled and founded several villages outside of Cozenza, Calabria (this is where my Mother's side of the Family come from) Origin: Peter Waldo and his followers

Waldo began to preach on the streets in the 1160s. By 1170 he and his followers were excommunicated and forced from Lyon. The Catholic church declared them heretics - the groups principle error was "contempt for ecclesiastical power" - that they dared to teach and preach outside of the control of the clergy "without divine inspiration", but they were also accused of the ignorant teaching of "innumerable errors" and condemned for translating parts of the Bible into vernacular. The movement even sought Papal approval for their endeavours at the Third Council of the Lateran where they were humiliated over certain fine theological points but gained a modicum of favour from the Pope. Waldo and his followers developed a system where they would go from town to town and meet secretly with small groups of Waldensians. There they would confess sins and hold service. A traveling Waldensian preacher was known as a barba and could be either man or woman. (The idea of a female preacher was novel, almost revolutionary in and of itself, for the era.) The group would shelter and house the barba and help make arrangements to move on to the next town in secret.

Portuguese: habitational name from Porto (Oporto). Spanish: habitational name from any of the numerous places, especially in Galicia, named Porto, usually in the sense ‘mountain pass’. Italian: habitational name from any of numerous minor places named or named with Porto, from porto ‘port’, ‘harbor’.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlosporto (talk • contribs) 03:12, 21 January 2010 (UTC) 

Camping sites in porto

Does anyone know of good sites close to attractions??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.218.74.60 (talk) 08:13, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

English Wikipedia and Oporto

I was curious, why is this article spelled Porto, and not the English Oporto, as it is accepted in English-speaking countries? Can anyone give me a logical explanation? Considering the number of commentaries, both good and bad, through the Talk page, I may have missed a justification. I suggest that it be moved and all spellings should be changed accordingly. I refer to the fact that Lisbon is not referred to as Lisboa in any of the associated articles.Ruben JC (Zeorymer) (talk) 10:34, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

• Interestingly Ryanair and easyJet - both airlines from English-speaking countries - call it Porto in English. Wikitravel also uses the term Porto. So perhaps Oporto is the "official" name in English, but no-one is using it - at least not in English-speaking Europe. Kennethmac2000 (talk) 19:00, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

The BBC uses "Oporto," and the British government uses both forms but "Oporto" more often (even if you omit all the historical documentation on the National Archives website). So the traditional English form is still alive and well, even if not everyone is using it. As of 2012, Oxforddictionaries.com gives Oporto as the city's only name in English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.248.237.198 (talk) 04:27, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

If it were my city, I'd only be glad for it to have traditional names in foreign languages, it's a sign of long established importance. But people with a chip on their shoulder, which is often the case in second-largest cities such as Oporto, or in former colonies, or in countries formerly subject to unfair treaties, seem to find it demeaning, and so the modern trend is for the 'official' name (as if such thing even made sense for common-law folks such as the english) in english (because no one cares about other languages) to be as close as possible to the modern original, hence Porto, or its transliteration, hence all those mispronounced asian names.82.155.229.219 (talk) 00:20, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

It should be Oporto. "Porto" in English is the old spelling for Porto Rico. 2607:FEA8:3D20:108:A062:805A:B380:F54C (talk) 03:16, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Climate classification I

Based on the data presented, Porto's climate is basically an oceanic climate, albeit a more moderate form of the climate, with a drying trend in the summer. This makes it a more like Marine West Coast climate, not much different from the one experienced in the Pacific Northwest region of the US. 2 major reasons why.

1. Porto sees about 1200 mm of precipitation per year. Mediterranean climates typically average at best about half this amount.

2. The drying trend is only seen during the summer months which is at best about 3 months long. All other times of the year sees heavier precipitation. Mediterranean climates tend to have 4-6 months of drier weather.

While Porto's climate technically can be called a Csb climate, the nine month long wet season makes it more of an oceanic climate. If I am missing some detail about Porto's climate please let me know.

G. Capo (talk) 07:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

• Define summer?! my favourite beach months are May and September. Traditionally we start going to the beach in May to get a good tan in time. these are out of the summer months in your definition and these months can be dry and hot, depending on the year. Even April can be summer-like.

Precipitation in Coastal Northern Portugal is not like in the UK. Rain is not as common as you might think, what happens is that the amount of water that falls from the skies is significant when it rains, you can get really wet! Proving this the amount of sunshine in Northern Portugal is larger than say most of Catalonia and Italy. Yet again, I cant even recall when I used the umbrella this year, probably very early in this year.It did rained in Porto this september, for a short period of time... twice I believe, but were immediately followed by sunshine. but also probably rained in the south. you can search data like this on reliable Weather websites that wont be biased by personal experiences.

Anual average precipitation in Lisbon: over 700 mm. Anual average precipitation in Paris, France: over 600 mm. Average anual precipitation in Barcelona: over 600 mm. Average anual precipitation in Madrid: between 400 mm and 500 mmm. Porto's anual average precipitation exceeds 1200 mm. It's a wet city indeed. It's west coast marine climate at the boundary of the mediterranean climate region of South Europe-North Africa. Just like Northern California or Central/South Chile (Temuco, Chiloe island). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.181.159.108 (talk) 19:30, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

In my personal experience there's not much difference in all Coastal Portugal in climate, except inland Portugal like Alentejo which tends to have torrid climate with temperatures often nearing 40C, in coastal northern Portugal those temperatures are very rare due to the ocean's effect. As for the coast... it's a different story.

You should get sources for what you wrote in the article. I dont believe in that. But If you get good sources... --Pedro (talk) 09:25, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I concur: the claims on this subject should be resolved with a few citations, indicating that, in fact, the statements attributed to User:G. Capo are valid, and supported by qualified sources? I mean, a phrase such as "could technically qualify" are not necessarily an encyclopedic statement, but a point-of-view. I am no climatologist.Ruben JC (Zeorymer) (talk) 10:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Based on what I'm hearing, Porto's winter rainfall is very different from London, but more similar to San Francisco. It's not a consistently overcast light "drizzly" rain but a heavier less frequent rainfall. The sources that I've have that describes Porto as having a "maritime climate" are tourist pages and less scientific. I guess the question I have is whether a climate that averages 1200 mm of rain per year and only occasionally rises above 30 C on average still be considered Mediterranean? If it can, I'll be in full agreement that it is mediterranean. G. Capo (talk) 14:33, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

• There's a cliche as being a gray city, due to granite possibly and people apply that to weather, there's also a large amount of ignorance in the middle. I find impressive how little people know about Portugal outside the country. but as you can easily check in European sunshine data as that being completly false. it is one of the sunniest cities in Europe. 30C temperatures are very common. Where did you saw these were not? temperatures above 35C are rare (although in 2010 were common) but often these occur only during heat waves. I would state more: it is on the verge to turn into a "csa" weather pattern. You can be sure, you'll find more "pleasant" weather in Porto rather than in Barcelona, especially in the summer. As for I read about California, I would say it is very similar, prevalling winds, sea temperature, sea fog, etc... --Pedro (talk) 15:11, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Similar to Northern California indeed, not even to San Francisco. Frisco gets a lot less precipitation, despite the fogs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.28.51.244 (talk) 06:04, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

2010 was a very uncommon year throughout the world climate-wise :). My city just had its hottest summer on record. Apparently, I misread this link [2] where they were talking about average number of days above 32C not 30C. As you can see, on average there's only 4 days where Porto exceeds the 32C mark. I guess my one question is whether a city that receives over 1200 mm of rain annually can still qualify as a Mediterranean climate. That is a lot of rainfall for a Mediterranean climate! G. Capo (talk) 03:07, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

• still 32C is nothing special. I Dont trust foreign sources on Portuguese data, these are often very unreliable. Read the definition for a Mediterranean climate for the rain issue. the answer may be in there... you may be confusing it with arid climate?!?! I think you should know the local climate/weather first... and then talk/compare it. If we are going to keep this subject, and I get some time, I can search data. -Pedro (talk) 13:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the long delay in responding! I’ve been pretty busy. Mediterranean climates feature precipitation totals at most below 900 mm per year. Porto is above that mark. This is the major source of confusion for me. G. Capo (talk) 21:51, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Geographers and biologists are the folks to go to for climate information. Last time I looked, Portugal is a transition zone between mediterranean in the SW and atlantic in the NE, the line is not straight but punched NW-wards, but Oporto is clearly atlantic, as is all the littoral north of Lisbon.82.155.229.219 (talk) 00:25, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

According to IPMA the climate in Porto is classified as warm summer mediterranean cbs.

Second largest city?

The text says that Porto is the second largest city in Portugal. Maybe that's true if we consider the city itself, but not the municipality, because Vila_Nova_de_Gaia_Municipality is quite larger. I guess that this should be made clear in the text.

Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.56.210.23 (talk) 08:30, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Residents leaving the city

As a former son of an owner and inhabitant for 20 years of an abandoned house in the center (R Tomaz de Gonzaga/Miragaia), I would like to add to the question that the former inhabitants of many "abandoned" houses in the historic district were "invited" to leave in the earlier 90s for renovation works, and most of them were offered social housing, initially in Circunvalação, however almost a decade later rehoused in the fantastic neighbourhood of the Bairro da Pasteleira. The city council bought/expropriated most of the old houses near Alfândega/Ribeira, and advised tenants/owners who wanted to stay behind they would have possible future costs of mandatory renovation of their old houses - only the very old that lived alone stayed behind citing humanitarian reasons. However, they are still sitting on the houses/real estate 20 years later, (probably, in my personal opinion, waiting for the people involved to pass away in order to avoid legal battles). The idea, again in my opinion, seems to be to reform them/and or sell the real estate to wealthy foreigners with a big profit in maybe more 10 or 20 years, I bet. Due to this, there are several streets that seem almost part of a ghost town, either during day or night. My parents were heartbroken last time we visited the place.

Noone cares. Hill Crest's WikiLaser! (BOOM!) 02:39, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Climate classification II

I don't like the discussion on the climate section. It reads like an opinion. Anyway. Data in there must be incorrect (in rain and extreme temperature). Porto's record high is 39.9C (1944) at Serra do Pilar which is near downtown Porto, some meters away! [3] --Pedro (talk) 21:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC) Porto, or rather Portugal doesn´t have a Mediterranean climate nor is Porto anywhere near the corresponding sea. It is rather unfortunate to see the tourist speak that we found in tourist guides here. Rui — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.93.56.7 (talk) 14:52, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page

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Why does "Oporto" redirect to here?

The city isn't even named "Oporto" (according to wikipedia). I came to this page looking for Portraguese fried chicken, and I get some obscure city no one's ever heard of?--Soft and Stout (talk) 02:53, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm sorry but your comments make no sense to me. Porto is not an obscure city; it is a large city in Portugal and well-known for a number of reasons. The reason why Oporto redirects here is made clear in the very first sentence of the article. I'm quite baffled as to what your point is and what you hope to achieve with this edit. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 23:53, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Oporto is the English name for this Portuguese city. 2607:FEA8:3D20:108:A062:805A:B380:F54C (talk) 03:19, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Soft and Stout: you just showed your abysmal knowledge of history and geography. Your comment on an "obscure city no one's ever heard of" is beyond ridiculous.

ICE77 (talk) 05:29, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Porto and Lisbon

One should not compare Porto and Lisbon with great intensity. It has two completely different stories. There are great rivalries. The Portuguese nation was born in 'Entre-Douro-e-Minho'. Lisbon was conquered by the noble classes of that territory. The populations of the territory of Oporto have origin in Phoenicians/Punic and ancient Hebrews and Cripto-Jews and Marranos. The populations of Lisbon originate from Berbere / Moors and Roman/Latin. The most populous region of Portugal is the North Region with almost 3,700,000 inhabitants (NUTS II). The Lisbon Metropolitan Area (NUTS II) has much fewer inhabitants. Spain.beauty (talk) 14:54, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Comments and questions

I made corrections and improvements to this article. I also made an effort to reorganize and improve the layout. I have some comments and questions.

1. "Known as the city of bridges, Porto built its first permanent bridge, the Ponte das Barcas (a pontoon bridge), in 1806. Three years later, it collapsed under the weight of thousands of fugitives from the French invasions during the Peninsular War, causing thousands of deaths."

This is redundant with a similar sentence in the first paragraph. The two should be merged.

2. "The Ponte D. Maria, a railway bridge, was inaugurated on 4 November of that same year."

What's the year?

3. The section called "Geography" does not talk about geography.

4. "A guided visit to the Palácio da Bolsa, and in particular the Arab Room, is a major tourist attraction."

This information is not necessarily pertinent to the section of this article.

5. "The country's biggest exporter (Petrogal) has one of its two refineries near the city, in Leça da Palmeira (13 km) and the second biggest (Qimonda, now bankrupt) has its only factory also near the city in Mindelo (26 km)."

If the refinery is no longer operational then this sentence must be revised.

6. The paragraph that starts with "In a study concerning" and ends with "different dependent measures" is inconclusive and unimportant.

7. Is Valença really an alternate name for Viana do Castelo? I have not come across something to prove that so far.

8. "FC Porto is one of the "Big Three" teams in the Portuguese league, and was European champion in 1987 and 2004, won the UEFA Cup (2003) and Europa League (2011) and the Intercontinental Toyota Cup in 1987 and 2004. Boavista have won the championship once"

Which championship they won is not clear.

9. The heritage tram image is horrendous. There is a pole in front of the tram.

10. Although J.K. Rowling lived in Porto for at least 18 months, I'm not sure she can be considered a "notable citizen" like many others who were born in Porto. Therefore, I removed her entry from the list of notable citizens.

11. Several images like "Porto City Hall in the Avenida dos Aliados", "Clérigos Church and Tower", "South side of Douro, Vila Nova de Gaia" and "Cais da Ribeira" have nothing to do with the sections they are in.

ICE77 (talk) 05:46, 22 July 2019 (UTC)