Talk:Drizzt Do'Urden

Weapon pages

Do we really need pages for Icingdeath and Twinkle? There's so little information, they should just be under Drizzt's page. If no one objects by a week or so, I'll put them back on Drizzt's page. Mwsilvabreen 19:25, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

They will grow, and you can help. This constant moving of those two swords has been on for quite some time, with people putting replica sword images and quotos and such.

The swords did need their own page. There is additional information about them, for example, when the game City of Heroes implemented dual blade use, they made the default dual scimitars, to which the developers cited Drizzt as the inspiration. Felisse (talk) 18:24, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Drizzt's page is too long already for comfortable reading, and is filled with useless/misplaced informations, which direly need your attenation instead. Cynehelm 10:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Think about it, there will be no new information about the swords. There's so little info. on their page, the pages should either be merged or deleted. Mwsilvabreen 00:33, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

You kept stating that there is so little information, yet either Icingdeath or Twinkle are over 1.5 KB. Drizzt page is father to many such pages such as Guenhyver, Catt-brie, Wulfgar, Legacy of the Drow, Paths of Darkness, The_Hunter's_Blades_Trilogyetc. Information on these page were once in Drizzt's page. Once some section on this page had grown over-sized, or some facts are not suitable to be described in this page, wikipedians before youestablished new pages and moved those section there, effectively reducing the size of Drizzt's page to today's 22K, which is still too huge for comfortable reading. Those pages have since then grown well in size and content.

there will be no new information about the swords ? There are history entries for both articles now, statistics discussion between their differences in various sources, their apperances in various computer games, and surely somewhile ago people kept posting some real-life replica of these swords may come back anytime.Cynehelm 09:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I have a proposal that may please both sides of this argument. Merge the two sword articles (similiar to what I did with Stormbringer and Mournblade). That way, you can focus on the history of his weapons, which are significant, and keep the main article cut down in size. Turlo Lomon 09:35, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

That seems like a good idea. As for the size of the articles, who cares? theres almost no important information. Nowhere near enough to exist in their own articles. Mwsilvabreen 02:40, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Reviewing all three talk pages, there has been one "no" vote, while the rest of us concur that the pages should be merged. My idea is to have a page entitled Drizzt Do'Urden's weapons. Any objection to this? Turlo Lomon 06:13, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Icingdeath and Twinkle, while sound cool on the written page, are actually relativly minor weapons in D&D. On their own, they are not unique enough to rate their own page, even being tied to Drizzt. FYI, the most powerful (and the most dangerous) sword is tied to Cattie-brie, but being tied to a minor charcter (I like, I know!) also doesn't deserve it's own page. Drizzt's swords are neither important enough or unique enough to warrant their own page. They aren't Frodo's Sting ,ya know! Trekkiexb5 23:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Note. The article created is called Drizzt Do'Urden's scimitars. Adding this so people don't think it was deleted or moved again. Turlo Lomon 10:57, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to jump in here and while the pages have supposedly been merged there is absolutely no information about Twinkle or Icingdeath on this page. Why is it the merge was accepted but never acted upon? It looks very unprofessional to me =/ Hawk-McKain (talk) 02:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I fail to understand why a fantasy characters swords should have their own seperate article on an encyclopedia. Just put them under the character and leave them there. 220.253.73.226 (talk) 08:19, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I think that that has now been done. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 13:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Redundant

Why is there the small Literature section under See Also, when there is already a much more in depth and larger section above? It serves no purpose. --Nashaii 01:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I've removed it. Mwsilvabreen 22:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Homeland

I just noticed that someone edited out Icewind Dale as Drizzt's homeland, and that brought up a good question. Where's Drizzt living now? Has he lived in Mithril Hall long enough to have it called his home? Mwsilvabreen 22:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Bias

The Fan Reaction section is horribly biased, and doesn't talk about his popularity at all. Drizzt //is// a very popular character, and the rambling, poorly written rant that is the 'Fan Reaction' section not only devotes a large amount of time to a fringe view, but does not speak about how his popularity pretty much propelled the Forgotten Realms setting into prominence and detail.

(Different author:)

I agree. It should be removed by virtue of it being completely unsourced. That kind of rant belongs on a Livejournal, not on Wikipedia. Cite a source or remove it, my removals were reverted by Cynehelm without explanation. 69.161.130.123 01:39, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Drizzt's Homeland is Icewind Dale they only real home he has ever cared about as shown in the book the get Wulfgar back in right before The Silent Blade Therefore his home is Icewind Dale as is the rest of his common friends —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.119.123.28 (talk) 14:32, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

(Different author:)

It would seem that the article is missing the point with Drizzt. He is the ultimate "Mary Sue" character and the serial novels by RA Salvatore are often trashed by the literary review. The repetitive nature of the books and the mono-dimensionality of the Drizzt character need to be addressed. The NPOV of this article is rather non-existent in that it represents a fan's view of the character, rather than the objective value of the character. AT147.9.226.185 (talk) 02:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

The whole article is currently cited with reliable sources. If you can find reliable sources to verify what you're saying (not things like blogs or messageboard posts, of which there are many arguing both points of view), feel free to add it to the article. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 02:08, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DrizztOmnibus.JPG

Image:DrizztOmnibus.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 21:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Servant of the Shard

Hey, just wanted to ask you Drizzt fans if one should read Servant of the Shard after "Spine of the World", before "Sea of Sword" or if one should just read it with the Sellswords series...? Lynorran 20:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Read it in the order it's supposed to be in. The Silent Blade, The Spine of the World, Servant of the Shard, and Sea of Swords.

Appearance

So.. He wears no pants? Seriously, I think you should break this up into two seperate parts: Appearance, and Wargear. Appearance would be him, and wargear would be his equipment. Just a suggestion to make it less confusing. Plus.. I'm pretty sure he wears pants. - NemFX (talk) 07:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Different Standard or Editor Bias??

It seems Drizzt is being held to a different standard for a fictional character. A quick check of Frodo Baggins, Bilbo Baggins, Count Dracula and Elric of Melniboné reveals that Drizzt has more reference's than all the theses other character’s combined. Now I am no fan of the Drizzt books, but this is an obvious bias by a certain group of editors who ultimately are working to get this article deleted. Web Warlock (talk) 16:42, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I have added 8 independent reviews of the character himself and how he relates to the books and sales of those books. I am removing tags. Web Warlock (talk) 17:29, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I have more to add, but I am out of time for today. Web Warlock (talk) 17:53, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Added a tag. Why is he listed as "one of the most popular fantasy characters in the history of fantasy" as a bald statement? Shouldn't there be at least a link to a 'most popular' survey or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.160.5.25 (talk) 15:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Removal of in universe tag

More than half of the article is written from a real world perspective, consisting of a list of publications the character has appeared. I don't think the consensus here agrees that the amount of in-universe perspective in this article is excessive. If someone disagrees, then this is the place to discuss it. Rray (talk) 14:52, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I also edited out some of the excessively detailed sections of the article. If someone wants to discuss reincluding that information in a possibly more abbreviated form, this would be a good place to discuss that too. Rray (talk) 15:05, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I think that the in universe template is highly appropriate as the bulk of this article comprises of in universe plot summaries of the games and books in which this fictional character features. The sections entitled Appearance, Personality, Magical items, Combat/tactics, Biography, Relationships, and Drizzt's Spoken Languages are not about a real-world person, they describe aspects of this fictional universe. Please restore the template.--Gavin Collins (talk) 15:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The article also includes significant amounts of information about the publication history of the character, which is real-world perspective. This makes the in-universe tag inappropriate, so I'll not be restoring it unless a consensus on the talk page demonstrates that they agree it should be re-added. Also, I've removed the sections regarding Magical items, Relationship, and Drizzt's Spoken Languages. Some in-universe description is fine in an article about a fictional character as long as it isn't excessive. Rray (talk) 15:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

There is no concensus, unless you are refering to your own opinion in isolation. Please restore the template. --Gavin Collins (talk) 15:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

So far only two of us have participated in the discussion, so no, there is no consensus. Your sole opinion in isolation is no more valid than mine. But I've actually edited the article to improve it by removing some of the in-universe trivia. (While you've done nothing more than add tags and issue instructions on the talk page here.) You might also find that you'll have an easier time of collaborating with other editors here if you'll drop the instruction-giving. You don't have any authority to tell me to restore a template I've removed. And telling other editors what to do is a poor way to build a consensus toward your way of thinking. Rray (talk) 15:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I've also removed the plot template, as I've edited out over half the plot-related content. Rray (talk) 15:25, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I'm *not* advocating a restoration of the in-universe or "plot summary" tags. I would, however, advocate cutting the "biography" section in half (or more). There seems to be a lot of stuff that could be removed and still be a biography. (We also don't need to know what kind of clothes he wears, for example.) Given some more free time, I'd consider doing this, and will perhaps do some later. --Craw-daddy | T | 15:42, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I've removed over half of the in-universe content in the article already, but I'm not opposed to additional edits to the article. Perhaps Gavin might be willing to actually help edit the article and remove some of the in-universe content? I don't know that I'll have much more time to spend on it today. Rray (talk) 15:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I would just like the in universe template to be restored in the first instance. I think we are agreed that there is a WP:WAF issue to be addressed here. I can concede that the extent of the issue is a matter of opinion, but I think that this article has a problem with in universe content is a matter of fact.--Gavin Collins (talk) 15:59, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. I don't think the amount of in-universe content is a problem, and I don't think any of this is a matter of fact (as opposed to opinion). And I don't see any urgency to re-adding the tag. I'd suggest we wait to see what other editors think here on the talk page. Rray (talk) 16:08, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the biography thing can be heavily chopped down. It's overly flowery in a lot of places. This article could use a lot of work, mainly just condensing the prose. Until that's done, I support reinstating the tag, to remind editors of this need. Howa0082 (talk) 18:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

This article does focus too heavily on in-universe content. The Biography section is all in-universe. The Literature section is a glorified list, and even here, much of the text is plot summary. This article needs secondary sources and real-world content. For example, who created the character; how the character was developed during creation; what inspired the character; how critics judged the character; what impact the character has had on other role-playing games, movies, video games, etc.; merchandise related to the character. Pagrashtak 18:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

While the article itself is long, it is not overly long compared to other fictional biographies. AT THIS point I think it needs copyedited and the language tightened up a bit more. Kudos to Rray for doing so much already. Web Warlock (talk) 19:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

ETA - the article could be a little less fanish and more non-biased. Personally, I can't stand the character myself but I do know the following he has as well as the significance he has brought to the game. For example, maybe we could find a link somewhere that details how Rangers in 3.5 were re-worked to be more "Drizzt" like? Web Warlock (talk) 19:08, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I added a cleanup tag which I don't think will be controversial at all, considering that everyone here thinks the article can be better written. There is still some disagreement about whether or not the amount of in-universe content is too extensive though, so I'm not re-adding that tag yet. 21:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rray (talk • contribs)

I'm dropping out of this discussion and won't be working on any more RPG articles for a while. Best of luck to everyone here interested in improving the article. Rray (talk) 20:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

illustrating drizzt's scimitars

anyone know why Drizzt's Scimitars aren't drawn as scimitars? I'm reading the books for the first time, and I'm on the Legacy, and I can't take the horribly done pictures of Drizzt's scimitars anymore. i think lockwood's art is pretty good, except his stupidity kinda got me pissed. Only an idiot wouldn't be able to tell that those aren't scimitars. I mean, I don't know what kinda swords those are on the covers in Drizzt's hands, but they are definitely not scimitars. So 1st question: what kinda swords are they? and 2nd: what is Lockwood's IQ? --216.125.51.144 (talk) 17:54, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd reference you to the Wikipedia page on scimitar. It's pretty obvious that that's a scimitar, and looks almost exactly like Lockwood's art. The problem here is your preconception of the scimitar as a short, curved blade with a point on the rear edge, like the swords in Disney's Aladdin. This representation of a scimitar also appeared on some of the earlier cover arts of the Drizzt books, particularly the Dark Elf Trilogy compilation cover (artwork by Jeff Easley). This is probably closer to a falchion or some other version of a stylized Middle-Eastern-derived sword. I'd also like to note that it's poor form to insult an author or an artist, so I have to wonder why you're bothering to discuss this page if you have an obvious bias against its subject. Wikipedia is, in theory, an unbiased source of information, so reconsider your responses before you make them. Mnemosyne126 (talk) 19:25, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

1. Disney's Aladdin can't teach you anything except to not fear arabs, and other false information. 2. even with the pictures in the links that you gave, if you look at the swords in drizzt's hands, you'd realize that they are way too straight to be any of the scimitar family. and, more than their straightness, they also don't have guards, which is another characteristic that seems to be common in all of the scimitar family of swords. i would refer you to go see alladin, however, and figure out how you could learn anything from it. they changed a friggin' song, for god's sakes, just so people wouldn't get the correct idea about things, like the cutting off your ears if they don't like your face. and, as to the insulting the artist, i had said that his art was really very good, but he didn't have high intelligence. those two are not mutual inclusive, and you can have one without the other —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.125.51.145 (talk) 18:50, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Wow, way to take comments out of context. I was referencing a movie that most people have seen at one point in their lifetime, not a source of unimpeachable fact. As well, since you got me so wrapped up in the art itself, I went and took a look (http://www.o-love.net/realms/covers_large/pic_hun1.jpg), and do these scimitars looks like they don't have crossguards on them, or am I just confused? As well, the phrase you were looking for was "mutually exclusive." And before you make the "grammar doesn't matter" argument, how do you expect to convince people of a point without getting what you mean across correctly. Sorry if this seems like a bit overboard, but as an artist myself, I take offense when the peanut gallery heckles the talent. Also, sign your posts, that's just not classy. Mnemosyne126 (talk) 09:29, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Class

Says Ranger/Fighter, but he's also Barbarian. Full stats can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20010117d —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.169.168 (talk) 18:27, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

As the person above said but he is also prestiged as a devish dancer so he can wield his double scimitars more easily and gains extra abiltys for his fighting style for version 3.5 editon that is his class lvls for 3.5 would be Ranger 6 Fighter 8 Rogue 2 Dervish 1 Barbarian 1 this is also taking in his new incouters with the thound orcs and two swords books —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jasonjinn (talk • contribs) 19:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Why... Just why?

For the description of the first transitions book, The Orc King, its explains that the book is "the unification of the orcs and the rest of the goodly races" with a citattion, i'll admit. But the citation isn't a link. Also if the user that had done this had the read the book then, not just the preview, they would understand that this is not what is about. Really it's is about the continuation of the war, the internal waring or the Orcs, and then finally at the end after all the trouble between the 2 sides, the RELUCTANTLY unify ON PAPER! There is still a long way to go in terms of full unification. I am reverting to my change to the summary. Cheers Drizzt Jamo 23:36, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

I had misread it as removal of a legitimate citation; I apologize. -Jéské ^{(Blah v^_^v)} 01:44, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Graphic novels

Article should probably note that the graphic novels are very abridged versions of each book. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ForeverFreeSpeech (talk • contribs) 18:29, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Re:Pic

haha yeah, the BRC one ElisaEXPLOSiONtalk. 12:49, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

add

since i can't, could somebody please add hr:Drizzt Do'Urden

thanks :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.61.147.29 (talk) 23:40, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Which version of AD&D was this written in?

I know that the Legend of Drizzt was written after R. A. Salvatore's AD&D game, but which version? First or second? 68.55.33.112 (talk) 22:53, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

The first version of Drizzt that had published game mechanics was 2nd edition (Heroes Lorebook). The information used to be in the article, but the "community consensus" decided that the level of detail the article used to have was no longer wanted. Turlo Lomon (talk) 15:05, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Fictional

Silly as this might seem, the word fictional is not mentioned. There might be an S.O.P. for where to mention that, but it should be mentioned. MrESaulved! (talk) 16:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

The setting itself is fictional, making the word "fictional" redundant. -Jéské ^{(v^_^v Kacheek!)} 18:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Reception section or something like it?

as an avid dnd player and a member of wikiproject: dungeons and dragons, i am concerned with the fact that, as mentioned in many posts above, there is no section here on Drizzt's impact in the real world. if i were to say, "he is the single most well-known character created for a dungeons and dragons related project," i think everyone here would be hard-pressed to prove me wrong. as far as i know, only Elminster and maybe a character from the godawful D&D movie (Jeremy Irons, for instance) could possibly compete. perhaps the old saturday morning cartoon would be in the running as well, but if you create a character for a popular mmo and try to name them with several variations on "Presto the Magician", you won't have much trouble, whereas everything from "Drtsss" to "Truzt" is already a name in WoW, and then some.

in my experience, only Sephiroth has nearly as many names based on him. That's the trouble, though, I only know this from what Wikipedia would call, "personal research." does anyone know of any decent sources that have commented on this phenomenon? do you think that this sort of thing should go in the reception section, along with critics' reviews of the books, or some rarer type of section? What makes a man turn neutral? (talk) 19:41, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Improving this article

OK, per discussion on the D&D Wikiproject talk page, we'd like to try to get this article to Good Article status. For an idea of what it may take to improve this one, have a look at this list of articles on fictional subjects which have already been there.

Peregrine Fisher has already done some good work just recently, by adding the Creation and Publication History sections. Anything we can reasonably add in there from a good source would be great. Another good thing would be an impact/reception section detailing more on how fans and writers and other people have reacted to the character. Sales data could appear in that part as well, or be its own section.

It may not be necessary to cut out a large amount of the in-universe text from this version[1], and I have an idea how. Rather than having a bio, I think it would be good to have a brief plot summary of every novel (or in some cases, series of novels, depending on how heavily he is featured) going into how he relates to important plot points, what happens to him, etc. The entirety of the biography could be cannibalized for this purpose and the literature section merged into it, as well as moving out some parts of the "appearance/personality", and "weapons/abilities" sections as necessary (although there's nothing wrong with sourcing those two sections and keeping them) into the bio/history.

Other thoughts...

Make sure there's nothing in the lead that's not somewhere else in the article, and make sure that the lead does a good job of summarizing the article's content.

There are a bunch of citations in the lead which are not used elsewhere in the article. If possible, we should be using these sources in the article as well, because they probably contain useful info.

The "other appearances" section should be expanded. I'm planning to write something about how he appears in the D&D game, since technically his primary media is the novels, so appearing in the RPG and video games would be "other media".

BOZ (talk) 04:08, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good in general. The easiest thing, if we just want a GA, will be to remove a bunch of stuff. The later sections in Biography can be cut and merged into one Biography section. The Literature section could be turned into a short list linking to the books. They already have articles. We could explain stuff book by book, but it doesn't sound like any of us have read all (or most) of them, and it would be a lot of work. I can make a reception section pretty easily, I saw refs for it when I was looking for production refs. Anyways, we should decide if we want to make a small, easy GA, or an awesome but difficult GA. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Somewhere in between?  ;) Drilnoth says he is familiar with the novel, so that's at least one of us. I added a section for RPG info; feel free to add anything significant that I missed. BOZ (talk) 05:01, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

That's fine. I've read a few comics about Drizzt, and I think the current biography is about the first novel, or first three novels, so there may be a lot more ground to cover. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 07:59, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I can focus on fixing up some of the in-universe stuff while you work on finding more out-of-universe info on development, etc., if that works for you. I'll probably be splitting my time between this and the Dungeons & Dragons cleaning, but when I'm done with the later I'll more fully focus on this. -Drilnoth (talk) 16:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

And the biography does, indeed, appear to focus mainly on books 1-3; I can work on cropping, expanding, and reformatting it as appropriate. -Drilnoth (talk) 16:10, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Do you think there's some merit in turning the bio into a by-book (and/or by-series) plot summary? For example, instead of "Drizzt did this, but he later Drizzt did that instead," We'd say "In book one, Drizzt is shown doing this... In book two he is depicted as doing this instead... In the second series, Drizzt was changed back to doing this." That brings it out of universe, and establishes a better chronology. We wouldn't necessarily need to remove any info which is currently there unless it is superfluous or overdetailed or unverifiable.BOZ (talk) 16:53, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds good; that would also clean up the list of books that looks a bit out of place. -Drilnoth (talk) 16:54, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

We can summarize the book pages for the ones that no ones read. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:31, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Arb break

OK, I added some info for a reception section. It's very choppy, but I did it that way because things may change drastically change depending on the book-by-book plot sections and whatnot. The NYT bestseller refs are not all the highest rankings, but they were the highest I could find with the NYT's search function. Each could be added to its book section, or I can put them into prose form. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:21, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not too fond of it in list form, so either prose or a chart would be better. BOZ (talk) 02:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I just started rewriting the in-universe stuff... it'll take awhile, so I'll probably do it one trilogy at a time. What do you think of the The Dark Elf Trilogy section? -Drilnoth (talk) 02:55, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Looks pretty good so far. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:03, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I like it! This is exactly what we should be doing for fictional characters. The publication history should make it clear in what order the books were actually published (as that is essential to understanding the history of the character from an out-of-universe perspective), and the FCB should make it clear in what order events actually happened in the character's life. BOZ (talk) 04:44, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I nominated the article at WP:GAN. It's not quite ready, but it usually takes a few weeks before someone comes to review it. There's a slight chance we'll have to scramble, but I doubt it. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 05:08, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Umm... okay. I'll try and redouble my efforts to get this done fast so that it's ready in time. -Drilnoth (talk) 14:20, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Just don't remove the underconstruction template in the meantime. :) BOZ (talk) 17:08, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

 Done with rewriting the in-universe stuff. Please trim as appropriate... I also took out all of the plotlines from the Transitions series, since the trilogy has yet to be completed. -Drilnoth (talk) 16:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Future refs

Salvatore interviewMaybe good for EL DragonsIcewind review - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 08:05, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Awesome find! :) Why didn't we have any of this stuff previously? BOZ (talk) 13:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I removed this ref, but we may want it later. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 04:05, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Not sure if we really need this. Put it here for now.

New York Times bestsellers, Hardcover unless otherwise noted:

• The paperback version of The Halfling's Gem reached 12 on the New York Times bestseller list on March 4, 1990.

• The paperback version of Sojourn reached 13 on the New York Times bestseller list on May 26, 1991.

• The Legacy reached 10 on the New York Times bestseller list on October 4, 1992.

• Starless Night reached 12 on the New York Times bestseller list on September 19, 1993.

• Siege of Darkness reached 13 on the New York Times bestseller list on September 18, 1994.

• Passage to Dawn reached 15 on the New York Times bestseller list on September 8, 1996.

• The Silent Blade reached 30 on the New York Times bestseller list[2]

• The Spine of the World reached 35 on the New York Times bestseller list.[3]

• Servant of the Shard reached 17 on the New York Times bestseller list.[4]

• Sea of Swords reached 14 on the New York Times bestseller list on November 18, 2001.

• The Thousand Orcs reached 11 on the New York Times bestseller list on November 3, 2002.

• The Lone Drow reached 7 on the New York Times bestseller list on November 16, 2003.

• The Two Swords reached 9 on the New York Times bestseller list on November 14, 2004.

• The Orc King reached 17 on the New York Times bestseller list on November 11, 2007.

• The Pirate King reached 8 on the New York Times bestseller list on November 2, 2008.

- Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:09, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I think I have an idea on how to add these in appropriately, and I'll do so after I finish with the reformatting. -Drilnoth (talk) 14:31, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

 Done -Drilnoth (talk) 22:46, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Removed sections

Most of this isn't very encyclopedic, but maybe it can be used later. There is a lot of it! - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:46, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Understood. Hopefully we can use some of it. :) BOZ (talk) 00:55, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Appearance and personality section moved from article

Drizzt is an unusual specimen of the predominantly evil drow race, whose society normally thrives on chaos, subterfuge and scheming. Much like his father Zaknafein, he was born with a strong sense of morals and fights on the side of good and justice. Despite his tremendous skill with weapons, Drizzt is primarily a peacemaker who is always willing to avoid a fight if he can, although he makes exceptions for irredeemably evil races such as orcs, giants, yetis, and goblins. Even then he looks for exceptions to the stereotypical prejudice of those races.

Drizzt harbors a deep love for the surface world and cherishes his place on it. Initially the sunlight was horribly painful to his eyes, accustomed to the little to no light of the Underdark; over the years he has spent above ground he has gradually become accustomed to it, although in his journal entries (which serve as chapter introductions in the novels) he remarks that the pain he still feels is a reminder not to ignore his heritage and the things he's done to overcome it.

He possesses a controlled anger, a legacy of the time he spent living alone in the wilds of the Underdark. While he has mastered that side of his psyche, which he refers to as the Hunter, he can still call upon it when he is hard-pressed. The Hunter is a purely instinctual being, which propels him to an almost invincible fighting state while stripping him of any compassion.

Thrice in his life Drizzt has regressed into a bestial and instinctive state of mind, in which he was identified as the Hunter. The first time this happened was when Drizzt fled Menzoberranzan and was living in the wilds of the Underdark. The second was when he went back to his homeland to prevent harm from coming to his friends, as told in the book Starless Night. The third time was during the war with King Obould Many-Arrows when Drizzt thought Bruenor and his friends had been slain by Obould's horde of orcs.

Weapons and Abilities

Early in his training, Drizzt found an affinity for the scimitar as his weapon of choice, and his training under Zaknafein coupled with his natural agility and insight into tactics make him a very dangerous fighter capable of taking on multiple opponents with ease. He currently fights with a pair of magically enhanced scimitars, named Twinkle, which gives off a faint blue glow, and Icingdeath, a blade that protects its wielder from fire whilst dealing additional damage to creatures of fire, which Drizzt obtained after slaying a large white dragon of the same name. Icingdeath also appears to be particularly effective at slaying evil outsiders, as seen when Drizzt used it to slay the Balor Errtu in The Crystal Shard. He also uses a pair of magical bracers, originally enchanted to increase the wearer's attack speed, but wears them on his ankles to increase his already formidable movement speed instead.

Drizzt enjoys the company of an extraplanar magical panther named Guenhwyvar, who he can summon by means of a small onyx statuette. Originally in the service of a powerful drow wizard named Masoj Hun'ett, Guenhwyvar recognized a kindred spirit in Drizzt and managed to disobey her master, and Drizzt soon took the figurine for his own. He and the cat are close friends, and the panther seems to be highly intelligent, often serving as a sounding board when Drizzt ponders out loud and responding to his plans in battle. She is a formidable fighter and complements his fighting style. Although Guenhwyvar can be injured, she is able to heal even life-threatening wounds on her own home plane when Drizzt dismisses her, such as recovering after falling into a lake of acid. Due to the limited amount of time that she can remain on this plane, she is often saved for dire emergencies.

Like all members of the nobility of the drow race Drizzt can levitate, summon a magical globe of darkness, and illuminate his foes with a bright but harmless faerie fire. After a short amount of time on the surface Drizzt lost the ability to levitate but retains his other inherent Drow abilities.

Fictional character biography

Intro

Drizzt is an unusual specimen of the predominantly evil drow race, whose society normally thrives on chaos, subterfuge and scheming. Much like his father Zaknafein, he was born with a strong sense of morals and fights on the side of good and justice. Despite his tremendous skill with weapons, Drizzt is primarily a peacemaker who is always willing to avoid a fight if he can, although he makes exceptions for irredeemably evil races such as orcs, giants, yetis, and goblins. Even then he looks for exceptions to the stereotypical prejudice of those races.

Drizzt enjoys the company of an extraplanar magical panther named Guenhwyvar, who he can summon by means of a small onyx statuette. Originally in the service of a powerful drow wizard named Masoj Hun'ett, Guenhwyvar recognized a kindred spirit in Drizzt and managed to disobey her master, and Drizzt soon took the figurine for his own. He and the cat are close friends, and the panther seems to be highly intelligent, often serving as a sounding board when Drizzt ponders out loud and responding to his plans in battle. She is a formidable fighter and complements his fighting style. Although Guenhwyvar can be injured, she is able to heal even life-threatening wounds on her own home plane when Drizzt dismisses her. Due to the limited amount of time that she can remain on this plane, she is often saved for dire emergencies.

Reminder

Change to active voice. Grammatical voice - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 07:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The in-universe stuff needs to be present-tense (per WP:WAF). -Drilnoth (talk) 14:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Chronologically

The FCB is in in-universe chronology now. Is that now we want it? I notice a lot of other WP pages are organized that way. Over in the comics area we're trying to move to an out-of-universe chronology. I'm fine either way, but we should specify it at the top of the FCB, whichever we choose. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:47, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm fine either way; it seems quite clear that the origin story is told in prequel books published after the original trilogy, so that's good. It would be simple enough to switch it around if desired, to "Drizzt's origin is then revealed in..." after describing the events of the original series. I'm more concerned that it's well-written and a compelling read, than what order the information is presented in. BOZ (talk) 02:55, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Drizzt Do'Urden/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi, I am reviewing this article for GA. All in all, the article looks fine. My initial comments are below. —Mattisse (Talk) 19:39, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments

• See WP:MoS#Overlinking - you have fantasy wikilinked twice in lead. Plus common words like novel do not need linking. (Besides, you have graphic novels linked.)
• "For instance, Drizzt is concerned that any children of his and his love Cattie-Brie (a human) would face hostility from both races" - not exactly sure what you mean - "concerned that none of his children" , or "concerned whether any of his children" or .... "concerned", meaning troubled if any of his children, interested in whether...
• "concerned with the lifespan discrepancy" - do you mean "disturbed over", or "interested in"
• "Salvatore created Drizzt, who is not based on the author, on a whim" - "who is not based on the author" seems unnecessary, like a non sequitor, are his characters usually based on the author?
• "convinced her it would be alright" - "alright" seems a little too informal for an encyclopedia
• what is "an elven child"?
• in the section "Fictional character biography" could you combine some of the paragraphs to reduce chopiness? And also vary wording some. (You have three paras in a row that start with "Drizzt".)
• "author R.A. Salvatore is best known as his creator" - and Drizzt is author R.A. Salvatore is best known creation"? - or some wording you like
• "debuted at 4 on The New York Times's bestseller list and 2 on Publisher's Weekly bestseller list. The Lone Drow debuted at 7" - think you should use #4, #2, #7 etc.
• "Reception" - can you expand this section to include some more specific examples of what reviewers thought?
• "References" - I can't figure out why the first two references have extra periods in them.

I will place the article on hold. —Mattisse (Talk) 19:39, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I'll get right on it. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:46, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Just FYI—the extra period in that first ref is because {{Cite journal}} is missing the title parameter. Pagrashtak 20:55, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Missed that.

I think I fixed the issues you mentioned. Here's the diff. I could only find two actual book reviews from reliables sources. Hopefully the bio part isn't choppy. If you have any more suggestions, I look forward to them. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 21:40, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

• "Every novel featuring Drizzt by Salvatore has made..." - are there novels featuring Drizzt that are not by Salvatore?
• "The character is a breadwinner for Salvatore..." - seems too slangy for encyclopedia.
• Is Drizzt an elf? (I saw your link to Elf (Dungeons & Dragons) further down.

Otherwise, very good! —Mattisse (Talk) 23:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Fixed breadwinner. I don't think anyone else has ever published a novel with Drizzt. It's hard to prove a negative. I haven't run across any in the past few weeks and umpteen google searches. Apparently there was an unpublished novel, The Shores of Dusk, by Mark Anthony. It has an isbn (see here) but I'm pretty sure it was never published. Here is the story, but it's not what we would consider a reliable source, although I'm sure it's true. I can't find anything reliable on it, so I've left that out. I changed it to saying how many books he has written (diff). - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:18, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

He's a drow. It's linked in the lede. A drow is a type of evil elf with dark skin. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:23, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

• Ok, very nice job! —Mattisse (Talk) 00:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Final GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): Well written b (MoS): Follows MoS

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): Well referenced b (citations to reliable sources): Sources are reliable c (OR): No OR

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): Sets the context b (focused): Remains focused on subject

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias: NPOV

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Congratulations! —Mattisse (Talk) 00:30, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks again. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:32, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Wow, thanks. :) BOZ (talk) 00:53, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Great! Thanks for the review!

Show up late to the party and all the good snacks are gone! ;) Great job everyone! Web Warlock (talk) 14:55, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Excellent work!

Congrats! Good job, especially to Peregrine Fisher and Drilnoth. :) This one passed so quickly that it might even have FA potential, if we can improve the sourcing and other things down the line. BOZ (talk) 01:01, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Copy that! Once you find a good source of research, you can really write a great article. FA is difficult to get to, but I highly recommend you try. (Twice.) You guys have done a great job. Randomran (talk) 21:46, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

FA is not an unreasonable goal for a character like this. I posted some thoughts on this subject at the Wikiproject Comics talk page as well. BOZ (talk) 22:27, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Should we put it up for peer review? Maybe just go for FA. It seems like PRs languish, and FAs get a lot of responses. Other than some copyediting, and summarizing the most recent two books, I think we've done everything it is possible to do. Maybe look through our sources and make sure we gleaned every bit we could. It's close to as good as it can ever get, at which point they may just pass it, you never know. ;-) - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 23:23, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, if you don't mind doing (a whole lot) more work, you can take it straight for FAC rather than waiting for a PR. I don't know if there's some kind of arbitrary waiting period needed between getting a GA and applying for FA, but if there isn't, and you're ready to go, then why wait? :) BOZ (talk) 02:57, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

There is not. But you better have your ducks in a row, as FAC is nothing like GAN! Read their criteria and have support willing to weigh in on the FAC. —Mattisse (Talk) 03:10, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I went through it unsuccessfully with Jackie Robinson. Some wanted more copyediting, and some wanted online sources replaced with book sources, which would make copyediting the current info obsolete. I couldn't decide which to do, and it failed. This article is pretty small, though. We'll see, I've got to think about it. FAC can be kind of brutal. I'm not a big fan of FAC or RfA for that reason. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 03:57, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I think a Peer Review would be a better first step... FACs are tough, and I think that waiting for it to get reviewed will also let us think about it a bit more to try and figure out more improvements. -Drilnoth (talk) 19:04, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

minor correction

"The character has been a steady source of income for Salvatore, appearing in his novels for 20 years." I think the line above sounds wrong. Maybe steady source of creativeness but income sounds like a critique. Just wondering if it was just me. 168.234.230.220 (talk) 00:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

It's how he made a his money, so I think income is correct. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 00:51, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I think that it's okay as "steady source of income". Without Drizzt, who knows where Salvatore would be at? –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 14:36, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Yet another starving artist! 71.194.32.252 (talk) 14:49, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Glaring omissions

How is it that a Good Article on Drizzt doesn't so much as mention the word "scimitar"? Powers ^T 23:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Heh... I think the problem came in that we were trying to rewrite the article using WP:RS and weren't sure where to put the scimitars. If you can find a way, it's probably a good idea to get them back in. :) BOZ (talk) 02:17, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

The article doesn't mention anything about the person of Drizzt, only the history and factors around the creation of the character. It looks like there was quite a bit at one point, why was it removed? Critmass (talk) 05:06, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Maybe those parts were unsourced? How long ago was that removed? 2601:241:4280:161:C03A:7EE:6362:F5B1 (talk) 11:37, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

This reads retarded

I can't quote your weird "wikispeach", but has anyone with half a brain ever read through this article/entry?

Dear please sweet baby jesus, a bit of due diligence for sentence structure and grammar.

Please. You make everyone who likes d20 and D&D look like a shit-wit. 184.59.24.99 (talk) 03:44, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

How eloquent! Another dissatisfied customer... Well, if you think you can do a better job, why not give it a shot yourself instead of just complaining vaguely and anonymously? BOZ (talk) 04:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

change to series grouping

would some one with a login please fix the series listing. i cant speak for neverwinter , and transitions is the same but they are as follows. The Legend of Drizzt: Homeland, Exile, Sojourn, The Crystal Shard, Streams of Silver, The Halfling's Gem, The Legacy, Starless Night, Siega of Darkness, Passage to Dawn, The Silent Blade, The Spine of the World, Sea of swords. Also the Cleric Quintet is left out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.142.77.128 (talk) 00:25, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

pronounciation

I think that there should be a section on this page about the pronunciation of Drizzt.

There has been much debate among fans as to the pronunciation, and in this interview with RA Salvatore, he says that he's aware of, and even enjoys this debate.

In this other interview, Salvatore himself is heard pronouncing the character's name (and it sounds like "Dritst" with a soft t at the end).

At any rate, the pronunciation given at the top of this page is incorrect. 204.77.151.201 (talk) 03:59, 25 May 2012 (UTC)lucidus

Can you provide any reliable sources for any of this? 99.126.204.164 (talk) 11:46, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Is the video of the interview with the author himself not considered to be a reliable source? 204.77.151.201 (talk) 06:28, 27 May 2012 (UTC)lucidus

I made the new section. LucidusAtra (talk) 05:58, 25 June 2012 (UTC)LucidusAtra

Hi. I worked on one of the audiobooks in the "Drizzt" series, and when the author was asked to provide pronunciations, he gave [drizt]. My personal word doesn't carry any weight, but if you listen to the audiobooks, the pronunciations you'll hear were almost entirely author-provided -- "Drizzt" definitely so. Corpho (talk) 19:14, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Baldurs Gate Enhanced Edition

No one mentioned Drizzt coming back in the Baldurs Gate Remake (Enhanced Edition). Majinsnake (talk) 05:27, 27 November 2012 (UTC)majinsnake

Yet, no one still mentioned Drizzt in the remakes of Baldurs Gate. Majinsnake (talk) 20:19, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

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"Publication history" reads more like a "Fictional character biography

This is particularly clear with the placement of the Dark Elf books before the Icewind Dale books -- it's not a publication history it's not written in publication order -- but the fact that the section includes virtually no "real world" information except publication dates (which could be included in a table) is another sign of this.

Should it be renamed? Or rewritten, refocused and rearranged?

Also, as written, the photo of Salvatore looks really out of place -- the author is barely mentioned in that whole section, his name only appearing in the last paragraph to clarify that he wrote other books in which Drizzt was mentioned but did not appear. The image would be more at home literally anywhere else in the article except the lead.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:15, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

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Unearthed Arcana inspiration Tweet from R.A. Salvator

R.A. Salvator posted a Tweet that says that his inspiration to give Drizzt two weapons was Unearthed Arcana:

"@seankreynolds Sean, I got it now - the two weapon idea for Drizzt came from Unearthed Arcana (1985). Dan from @wanderingdms just mentioned it to me.

Forgot drow were even in there."

I'm not quite sure where to put this, but I know there is a lot of talk about Drizzt having two swords in the D&D community, so the origin is notable. Big Mac (talk) 11:24, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Great find, thanks! 2601:249:8B80:4050:88E6:CA3B:978E:468A (talk) 12:35, 22 June 2020 (UTC)