Talk:York Minster

Replacing my photograph of the nave from inside York Minster with a better new one

I see that one of my older photographs is being used for the shot of the nave inside York Minster on the Wiki Page. I have since revisited York Minster and have taken a better photograph being a clear hdr shot with no one in the frame. Here is the link to the new photograph if you want to replace the one on the wiki page with the new one: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:York_Minster_HDR.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdbeckwith (talk • contribs) 06:43, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Category and Abbey

I have put this building into category:buildings in York as this is now a subcategory of category:buildings in North Yorkshire. I have removed it from category:abbeys in England because, as far as I know, it is not an abbey. However, I am happy to be corrected on this. --Vincej 12:03, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

In answer to above

I have just inserted the word Medieval. York is the largest Medieval church in the United Kingdom and undoubtedly in the Commonwealth as we colonials don't have too much medieval architecture about.

York Minster is smaller than Liverpool and St Paul's Cathedral in London. Its not as long as Winchester, Canterbury, St Albans or Ely , but despite its very simple ground plan, it's wide and takes up a lot of area, and contains a lot of volume.

--144.131.121.75 14:21, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

--87.113.86.107 22:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC) ive just added links to the above cathedrals

Second biggest gothic cathedral in Northern Europe

Is it bigger than the Ulm Cathedral (which is taller than the one in Cologne!), or is the claim based on, for example, nit-picking on the minor meaning difference between cathedral and church? This kind of statements are funny because you can make everything "the biggest" if you qualify far enough: gothic, cathedral, northern Europe, completed before, completed after, and so on and on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.127.202.147 (talk) 07:08, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Ulm cathedral is 123 meters by 48 meters with height inside 41 and spire 162 meters.

One source I googled says York minster is 519 feet by 100 feet which is 158 meters by 30 meters which suggests that the apart from being taller, the Ulm Cathedral also is bigger inside. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.127.202.147 (talk) 07:15, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I hate to interrupt your conversation at this point but since when was Germany in Northern Europe? I've always thought of germany as being central europe. Indeed neither the UN definition or wikipedia's own definition of northern europe include germany. Back to York being the biggest, I'd say, which is what I've always heard quoted anyway. --Gytrash (talk) 15:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Seeing as no one else cared enough I made northern europe a clickable link, where you may note germany isn't included in the definition (if cologne is included then why not amiens or beauvais in northern france?) (Looking at the northern germany article cologne isn't even included there anyway!). And changed it back to york being the largest. Which, again, is what I always heard anyway. 16:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gytrash (talk • contribs)

Having lived in York for 5 years, and been in the Minster countless times, I finally had a proper tour during which the guide used the description 'biggest North of the Alps' which is a slightly more specific description that I had not come across before (but does not exclude Germany). What a minefield. What is 'biggest' anyway! –MDCollins (talk) 00:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Minefield indeed. You should see the arguments about where city limits begin and end and what should be included. Still, a little internal consistency doesn't hurt.--Gytrash (talk) 19:08, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Is York Minster Imposing?

You are bonkers and rather ignorant. If you look up the word 'imposing' in the Oxford Thesaurus, you will see synonyms such as awesome, impressive,lofty, magnificent,noble & splendid. There are more of the same flavour - not a single negative connotation.

If St. Peter's is not imposing, nothing is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.149.4.90 (talk) 11:16, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

In the first paragraph, it describes York Minster as being "imposing". This makes it sounds like the minster is unwelcome and an eyesore, and as a person living in York I can certainly say it's not. Maybe this should be rephrased? I have also changed the position of the pictures so that there is not a huge gap between sections of text.

Xtrememachineuk 19:37, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Astronomical Clock

I added something about the clock. But I've not been able to get to York Minster to check the description. If the clock's not there any more or has changed substantially, please tell me and I'll do some edits.

Cormullion 10:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

It's still there, and as you describe. Nice work! Regards, --RobertG ♬ talk 10:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll try to polish it up over the next few whatevers, but getting started is always the hard bit Cormullion 16:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Deans

Not strictly relevant here, but Dean of York is still a fragmentary list, and could well be boosted by anyone who contributes to this page or lives near the Minster. Neddyseagoon - talk 15:18, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Architecture

I've added a section on the architecture of the Minster, it's not really complete yet (you'll notice the paragraphs get shorter towards the end!) but I'll add some more stuff later. One problem is that there is now some repetition of things mentioned elsewhere in the article. Does anyone have any suggestions about whether it should mention the stained glass at all in the architecture section or should I remove it and merge any new information with the section on stained glass? Also, is it written at the right level as I've not written stuff for wikipedia before? Thanks --Ivanivanovich 16:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I've moved the stained glass and the bells into the new section as I think it fits better there. I think that obviously any duplication should be removed. I think it is safe for you to go ahead with anything, as in my opinion the article is not written that well anyway! –MDCollins (talk) 16:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Categories

Shouldn't this article have some categories on it? --Bobnotts 09:28, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Well spotted! - a nasty piece of vandalism now reverted. Thanks for the message. –MDCollins (talk) 16:44, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

William Cockburn

I am trying to write the article on William Cockburn (Sir William Cockburn, 11th Baronet), Dean of York. For such an interesting story there is so little. There is nothing in Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (accessed 2007-08-20) save to say that his nephew Sir Alexander Cockburn defended him against a charge of simony, a claim substantiated nowhere else. There are fragments in The Times but it is slightly incoherent. It appears that, after the 1840 fire, the deanery was bankrupt and there was a public appeal. There was a subsequent investigation into the conduct and management of the proceeds and a Rev Dixon accused Cockburn of simony. Cockurn was accused of selling benefices which he freely admitted (The Times, 25 Jan 1841, p.6 cols.e-f). Cockburn was deposed as Dean sine die (The Times, 5 April 1841, p.5 col.e). A barrister, not Cockburn's nephew, tried to get a writ to prohibit the order but failed. I can find no more until notice of his death (Times 3 May 1858) when he is described as "Dean of York". Also, Institute of Historical Research Dates says he was Dean until 1858. Don't want to go into original research but I suspect York newspapers are needed. Or perhaps we have to wait until Who was Who is available on the web. Does anyone have any black letter sources to hand that fill in the gaps?Cutler 11:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Images

I recently visited the Minster and took quite some images which I added to Commons, for the moment they are at the top at my gallery, I'm hesitant to add too much of it myself so please anybody please review the images and add to this article where appropriate. Thank you. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 01:44, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Organist

RE: the addition of Robert Sharpe as organist from Sept 2008...

I notice this has been added by an ip, and rightly tagged as 'cn'. I know word of mouth doesn't count, but this appointment has been confirmed to me as well. Can't find a 'printable' reference at the moment, but just mentioning it as some verifiability. –MDCollins (talk) 23:33, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I have this article watchlisted but will keep an eye out for references. The RCO webite doesn't help, you need a subscription. Meanwhile, please add it in as soon as, although the cn tag is likely to stay around for a month or more. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 23:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I have been there when he has played, I can vouch for verifibilty....if thats how you spekll it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.32.155.203 (talk) 15:18, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

It's fine now - there will be plenty of references available. He has been in the post for several months now.00:12, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

That's fine, but personal knowledge is not regarded as a reliable source. I studied under Francis Jackson in the 1960s but that is inadequate as regards here. Cheers. --Rodhullandemu 00:16, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Bells

According to the York Minster Society of Change Ringers, there are 56 Bells in the two Western Towers.[1]

The Main peal in the south-west tower, consists of 14 bells.

Where the 35 bells comes from is the number of bells in the Carillon[2]. Kuitan (talk) 20:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

The text of part of this section seems to have been taken to a large degree from the York Minster website with only minor editing. Whole sentences are left unchanged.

Compare:

... York Minster became the first cathedral in England to have a carillon of bells with the arrival of a further twenty-four small bells on 4 April 2008. These are added to the existing “Nelson Chime” that is chimed to announce Evensong around 5 pm each day, giving a carillon of 35 bells in total (3 chromatic octaves). The new bells were cast at the Loughborough Bell Foundry of Taylors, Eayre & Smith, where all of the existing Minster bells were cast. The new carillon is a gift to the Minster. It will be the first new carillon in the British Isles for forty years and first handplayed carillon in an English cathedral. Before Evensong each evening, hymn tunes are played on a baton keyboard connected with the bells, but occasionally anything from Beethoven to the Beatles may be heard.

From the wiki article, with:

York Minster will become the first cathedral in England to have a carillon of bells with the arrival of a further twenty-four small bells on Friday 4th April. These will be added to the existing “Nelson Chime” that is played to announce Evensong around 5 pm each day, giving a carillon of 35 bells in total (3 chromatic octaves). The new bells have been cast at the Loughborough Bell Foundry of Taylors, Eayre & Smith, where all of the existing Minster bells were cast. The new carillon is a gift to the Minster. Once installed it will be the first new carillon in the British Isles for forty years. Before Evensong each evening, hymn tunes are played on the bells. But on certain occasions anything from Beethoven to the Beatles may be heard.

from the York Minster website [3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kuitan (talk • contribs) 20:44, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Fire in the Minster's stoneyard

User:P0mbal and I managed to insert slightly different sentences and different refs at the end of the Stained Glass section within a minute of each other. Would someone like to amalgamate them? The story was reported on the 31st, so the fire must have been on the night of the 30th. --GuillaumeTell 22:34, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Minster "High Church" service

I don't see anything wrong with including the information and expect it's correct, but can anyone find a more reliable source for the information about the Minster's service being on the Anglican Catholic end of things? Does anyone else agree that the current citation (to a comment/review on dooyoo.co.uk) isn't ideal? /ninly^(talk) 06:14, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

York Minster Police

Is it worth mentioning that York minster has (or had) a Police Force of it's own, independent of North Yorkshire Police, sharing similar rights in that respect to Westminster Cathedral? Philip.t.day (talk) 20:43, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

[Article comments]

There really should be more stuff on the 1980s fire, the restoration work, the rebuilding of the Rose Window. Also the controversial decision to charge non-York residents to enter. Maybe other modern information as well, such as its use for multi-church events (J John seminars) and other important events (Billy Graham, Richard Whiteley memorial service etc...).

This article states that York Minster is the largest church in the United Kingdom and Commonwealth countries yet the article for Livepool Cathedral states that that is the largest Anglican Cathedral in the world. York Minister is Anglican so which is bigger York or Liverpool?

I am not sure where to put this information but I didn't see it mentioned in the article about the undercroft of the Minster. I went to York this past year and found it very interesting in this part of the cathedral. It showed you the history of the Romans and Normans who played a role in the founding of York and also held the treasury with many old artifacts, some from the 11th century. Shannahan15 (talk) 15:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC) Moved from out of sequence entry on this talk page.—User:MDCollins (talk) 16:29, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Good comments here. To pick up on your point about size, there is a section higher up on this page where the "biggest/largest" "by area/volume" "gothic" "cathedral/church" in "UK/Northern Europe/World" was mentioned. It all depends on the definition and a source for it. It certainly is confusing with many buildings laying claim to their own variation on the same premise. Consistency would be nice (list of churches by volume, for example) but that doesn't seem forthcoming!

I can't see where in this article it says the "largest in the UK/Commonwealth" as you mentioned; the Liverpool Anglican says it is the longest cathedral in the world (in a rather convoluted way that I will now go and tidy up. I agree that it is confusing but the distinction is there. Sort of.

This article isn't consistent in itself - the statement that once read "second-largest Gothic cath. in N. Europe" (in the lead), is still present under architechture, but the lead now says "one of the largest [Gothic cath.] in N. Europe alongside Cologne Cath. At the very least, alongside is probably the wrong word here. It now doesn't need referencing, but is very woolly and ambiguous.—User:MDCollins (talk) 16:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

The York Minster is an interesting place for the family and is used daily as a great school trip . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.235.226 (talk) 19:48, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Origins of Christian worship in Britain

This "According to Bede, missionaries were sent from Rome by Eleutherius at the request of the chieftain Lucius of Britain in AD 180 to settle controverted points of differences as to Eastern and Western ceremonials which were disturbing the church." is known to be nonsense. It has no basis in fact. There never was a King or Chief Lucius of Britain. Bede wrote it down wrong. Can someone please change it because it's embarrassing. Even the article to which it links admits there's no evidence for it. Can someone please edit this and remove such patent nonsense151.224.253.125 (talk) 12:40, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:York Minster/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

. Inline references required Go for GA review when sorted out. Keith D 17:19, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:19, 9 July 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 11:06, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Merge School

I have proposed that The Minster School, York should be merged to here. It is a largely non-notable entity and as per WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES would probably not survive an AfD. Any comments appreciated. CalzGuy (talk) 18:12, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

It may certainly be mentioned in the article about York Minster if it is not already, but I do not think it is "non-notable", considering its ancient origins and its specialism, and the listed status of some of its buildings. --Schlosser67 (talk) 14:05, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

There seems to be enough material to meet Wikipedia:Notability (schools). Jonathan A Jones (talk) 16:41, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Lengthy part of History section uncited

A lengthy and uncited description of the 1984 fire contained a seemingly apocryphal anecdote which I removed. The entire description needs updated citations as the two given are no longer retrievable.

— geordie  17:01, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Fire in 1984

This section says that the rose window was destroyed in the fire. I was surprised to read this, since my own recollection was that it had been badly damaged but did NOT fall; and that in the following days a separate work team took it down for restoration, which was done by backing the fire-damaged glass onto clear glass. I've found a NY Times article that confirms that the window was not destroyed. ("Peter Gibson, who oversaw the repairs to the early 16th-century stained-glass rose window, 22 feet in diameter, said the heat of the fire had cracked it into 40,000 pieces. But even though some of its lead joints melted, it held together and did not crash down onto the floor with the roof, he said.") So the text needs correction. Greer Watson (talk) 05:00, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

I've added in the NY times article, badly damaged not destroyed, had it fallen it couldn't have been laid out for restoration as mentioned later on in the On This Day article. EdwardUK (talk) 06:10, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

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