Talk:Cuthbert Collingwood, 1st Baron Collingwood

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Untitled[edit]

Was he a life or hereditary peer? There's no page at Baron Collingwood, but I didn't think people were normally created life peers that far back...? ugen64 04:16, Sep 8, 2004 (UTC)

Asking while I'm typing... you can look now. :-) According to life peer it could not have been a life peerage, he just died without heirs, not uncommon if you scan some of the other peers. Stan 04:43, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Went to sea at age 11?[edit]

Are we certain about this fact, or is this just the 1911 Britannica reporting things according to log books? It was common practice to enter young children into the books so they could earn sufficient sea time for promotion. They never actually sailed, though - relatives paid a nominal stipend that was pocketed by the captain in exchange for pretending they were there. --Stephan Schulz 12:29, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's possible I suppose, one would need a thorough biographer to discover the fraud, don't have such on hand. In The Wooden World (p. 298), N.A.M. Rodger says the evidence suggests it was unusual to get away without the six year's experience required of a lieutenant. Given the semi-organized schooling on board, and the competitive nature of the promotion structure, there was every reason to get a child to learning the secrets of sextant and rigging as soon as possible, and be ready to pass the exam below age 20 if the opportunity arose. Stan 13:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

In The Command of the Ocean, Rodger discusses the makeup of the Napoleonic Navy: "A sample of 4,474 men from ships commissioning at Portsmouth in 1804–5 shows ... the median age was twenty to twenty-four, and the ages ranged from three boys of ten, to one man over sixty-five". Gdr 17:23, 22 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

For what its worth, Tom Pocock in his biography of Nelson, also confirms that Collingwood went to see at the age of 11. Dabbler 23:46, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Clean up[edit]

The prose in this article needs to be cleaned up (it is excessively flowery even by 1911 standards) and changed to a more neutral POV. David 23:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It needs to be updated to modern English, but I would not call it unusual for 1911. NPOV? Do you have any particular areas on mind?--Anjouli 09:07, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I'm particularly concerned about the lavish praise of Collingwood and others, as well as a general pro-British-Empire triumphalism. A mechanical rewrite, without the need for any extra research, should be able to fix those problems. David 14:19, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I have made a first rewrite to improve the language and clean-up the article into a more 21st century version. Be Bold! Dabbler 18:43, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for all your work on that. I'm not sure whether there's an official process involved, but as the person who first flagged the article, I have no objection to removing the cleanup tag. There are still some logical inconsistencies (if Collingwood was already post-captain, why was Nelson in command of his ship [as opposed to the whole fleet], and how could Collingwood succeed him? surely he returned home again after 1803, since he lived long afterwards; etc.), but those are all present in the original article, and we can fix those at leisure. David 20:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think Collingwood took over Badger from Nelson not Hinchinbroke and may not have been posted at the time. I am also unsure if he actually took part in the Nicaragua disaster with Nelson. Will look into it further. Dabbler 23:46, 1 November 2005 (UTC) Surprisingly enough it is true that Collingwood was continually at sea from 1803 until his death. It was a hard service and his sense of duty kept him in the Mediterranean even after he became sick. Dabbler 23:53, 1 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

went to sea at age 11[edit]

Collingwood was born in 1748, not 1750- even his portrait at Royal Grammar School used to carry this error- so he was thirteen, not eleven, and really did go to sea at that age like many others. As a pupil many years ago, I was curious how little the school made of its greatest son, but reflecting how young he left, it shows what a powerful educational machine the Royal Navy was. Read the quality of his and Nelson's prose, and weep

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