Talk:Chaplain

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Prison section?[edit]

The middle paragraph in the prison section seems to have a very strong monotheistic (most likely Christian) religious influence: it's more about the 'grace of God' than the actual role of chaplains in prisons. Could someone please improve this section?

Why has this not been improved yet? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.121.47.232 (talk) 03:30, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The middle paragraph currently reads, "The manifold complexity of prison chaplaincy was explained by Dr. /Measuring_Chaplaincy.htm Measuring Prison Chaplaincy]. Dr. Vance Drum wrote and presented a paper at the American Correctional Association on the nature of the professional prison Generally speaking, prisoners are often persons excluded, aborted from society. Prisoners easily can be overwhelmed by feelings of isolation, shame and rejection that threaten to shatter their hopes and aspirations for the future. Within this contex". It is unclear whether this was intended to continue as, "Within this context, Rabbi..." (joining this paragraph and the next apparent paragraph), or if the original thought was accidentally cut off entirely. Also, the link regarding Measuring Prison Chaplaincy does not appear to refer directly to either a Wikipedia page, or a specific external link.

I think the passage is an improvement, in terms of religious neutrality, from the comment above, though. It is, however, not clear enough to me that I feel confident to attempt a repair. ~ Chimæridæ (talk) 23:42, 13 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Catch-22[edit]

Whoever posted this:

In the novel Catch-22, Chaplain (Captain) Albert T. Tappman plays an important role in the development of the story.

Should do us a favor and expand on it...

-Jfahler

Klingenschmitt's Release From Active Duty[edit]

I changed the word "dismissed" which is a very specific legal term under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) Title 10 USC. Only officers can be dismissed and only as a punitive discharge from a General Court Martial. Klingenschmitt was only convicted at a Special Court Martial, which does not have the authority to discharge convicted officers (though a Special Court Martial can punitively discharge convicted enlisted personnel with a Bad Conduct Discharge). The word that I chose for accuracy's sake is "released." Klingenschmitt was released from Active Duty administratively, not punitively. These are all very specific, legal terms that have an enormous amount of meaning behind them. It is better to use the correct terminology so as to not unintentionally mislead the casual reader. USMC Padre (talk) 23:18, 4 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, some Special Courts Martial can "award" (the military term) a Bad Conduct Discharge to enlisted personnel and some cannot. It depends on whether the Convening Authority (generally the Commanding Officer) includes a "Recorder" when he or she appoints the members of the court martial. If so, the court martial is empowered to award a BCD; if not then it can't. The Recorder keeps a verbatim record of the court martial, generally by using a tape recorder. Dick Kimball (talk) 17:54, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Your information is not quite correct. A Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD) can only be imposed as punishment if the crime committed (particular violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice) by the member carries the possibility of a punitive discharge. It has nothing to do with the Convening Authority.USMC Padre (talk) 19:20, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Noncombatant status[edit]

Similarly, in this section the word "dismissed" appears to have been used incorrectly in much the same manner as LT Klingenschmitt, when a chaplain was described as being "dismissed" for training as a tank gunner. That's not something worth a General Court Martial! Dick Kimball (talk) 18:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that Crosby uses the word 'dismissed' in his book, but even if he does I don't think is making a distinction between 'released' and 'dismissed'. The key thought is that the chaplain lost his job because of his actions - as long as this is kept the actual word used is not that significant, however "released" would not, imo, have the right weight. Sacked is too colloquial. How about 'discharged'? Except that from the church point of view it does appear there was an element of sanction and punishment about his losing his job, and 'discharged' is too neutral. What do others think? Springnuts (talk) 20:34, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think a military veteran, particularly anyone who was once a commissioned officer, is going to see "dismissed" and think of the officer equivalent of a Dishonorable Discharge. It is a very serious thing for an officer to be dismissed. He or she is disgraced, loses all veterans benefits (federal and state), is not permitted to wear the uniform (like for Veterans Day parades), and is a federal felon for life (so can never own a gun, for instance). Dick Kimball (talk) 19:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe never owning a gun is not a big problem for a priest :) However ...
I will try the word "removed". Regards, Springnuts (talk) 20:08, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wiccan chaplains?[edit]

Christians are not the only faith to have chaplain-equivalent positions. There appear to be some Wiccan chaplains.

I'm not sure about the Wiccan chaplains - any proof? It sounds rather unlikely - what army has a high enough Wiccan membership to warrent it?

I know for a fact that there are chaplains from other more mainstream faiths (Moslem, Jewish, etc.), but I'll wait to clear up the Wiccan thing before I add more info' on that. -- stewacide 04:45, 22 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I trust religioustolerance.org, which claims that there are no clear-cut examples of the US Army funding Wicca in any way [1], but that there was a significant controversy over alleged funding. This might be what the author meant. A note that the US Army Chaplains give support to the spiritual needs of all soldiers, regardless of religion, including Wicca, might be relevant in this article, but I would be inclined to not believe the statement that there are Wiccan Chaplains in any army until I see proof. It seems like there are a lot of similar statements going around these days -- I recently heard that a Wiccan coven was trying to get a religious emblem, signifying personal and community-based spiritual achievement, approved for the Boy Scouts of America. This is probably also untrue. Tuf-Kat 05:11, Sep 22, 2003 (UTC)
Wiccan boyscouts? I don't think the Mormons would allow that! -- stewacide

For the reasons given above I have today removed the unsourced line claiming interest in appointing wiccan chaplains. Springnuts 20:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I addded the Washington Post article about Chaplain Don Larsen and his attempt to become the first Wiccan military chaplain for the US armed forces.

The post about Don Larsen has the same problem with the misuse of "dismissed," which has a very specific and very negative military meaning that I'm sure the submitter didn't mean. Please see my comments above at "Noncombatant status" on this Dick Kimball (talk) 20:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the post on Captain Larsen, I see the phrase "officially recognized endorser," which implies to me that the DoD can pick-and-choose exactly which religions, faiths, cults, etc. will be allowed to sponsor chaplains and which will not. Has anybody, for instance, heard of a Scientology chaplain? (I know Scientology is anathema to Internet users, but they come immediately to mind as a controversial faith.) Dick Kimball (talk) 20:49, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It may be worth mentioning that the term "chaplain" originates from Christianity (originally the one with responsibility for the chapel) but has become a more general term for those providing religious and spiritual support and care in secular situations. Muslims have pointed out to me that there is no word for Chaplain in Islam, and many prefer to stick to the term "Imam" when referring to their own spiritual care providers. --Forager1969 22:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting point, as it is arguable that the concept is a Christian one - thus it is a form of religious imperialism to impose it (and the expectations of chaplaincy ministry) on other faiths, who may hold very different concepts. Springnuts (talk) 21:22, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't quite know how we got from Wicca to Islam, but I seem to recall news reports of at least a couple of years ago about a "Muslim chaplain" who had been ministering to prisoners at the Guantanamo Bay detention camp getting in serious trouble for disclosing so called "classified information" over (as best I recall) his letting prisoners' families know that they were still alive and imprisoned at Guantánamo. Dick Kimball (talk) 20:18, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Non-military chaplaincy[edit]

Non-military chaplaincy could probably be expanded - for example University chaplaincy - tends to be 'multifaith'. Chaplaincy is often lay. - In these settings the chaplain is often paid by the faith community/religious body by which they are appointed. - A search in google picks up a few. Flinders University of South Australia is one example <http://www.flinders.edu.au/religiouscentre/chaplains/index.html>. This does include a Wiccan chaplain. --Paul foord 02:50, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)[user: Paul Foord]

Well a pagan chaplain - on this link [2] so please add to the article. Springnuts 21:27, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- In Ireland Chaplains are appointed and paid for by the State in schools, hospitals, prinsons, the Military and Universities. Dr. James O'Higgins-Norman, former Head of Chaplaincy Studies at the Mater Dei Institute of Education, DCU.

I would recommend adding a section for government chaplains. Much information can be found on wikipedia for government chaplains in the U.S. on pages Chaplain of the United States Senate, and Chaplain of the United States House of Representatives. Resnicoff (talk) 17:38, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mullahs[edit]

I've heard from various unaaccountable sources that Turkish Mullahs often accompanied mounted cavalry during the 16-18th century on raids, any support for this?

Remove dubious link[edit]

I have removed the link to the United Chaplains Corps - not sure this is a real organisation or simply a commercial organisation taking money off people for "ordination" and membership. Link was: *United Chaplains Corps, multinational/multifaith "Chaplains without Borders"

(the above has not been signed)

I have removed the claim that there are plans to remove all Chaplains for the UK National Health Service. Although there was an attempt made by one NHS Trust it has not resulted in a nationwide policy. I have relocated it to the page I created recently entitled College of Health Care Chaplains, where I have put it as link in a list of issues facing NHS Chaplains at the present time.

--Forager1969 22:11, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nickname of "Chaps"?[edit]

I have again removed the nickname "chaps" from the opening para - in 15 years in military chaplaincy and having met military chaplains from a number of english speaking countries I have never heard this nickname used. It is used by some US chaplains. (However in the US Navy there is an invariable name used: I recall asking a USN chaplain in Singapore "What is your first name" to get the reply: "For the past twelve years my first name has been 'Chaplain'!")

So I have put 'chaps' in the US military section later in the article. I have left 'padre' in the first para as it is I think very widely, if not quite universally, used.

--Springnuts 22:39, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with this page is that is is dominated by your experience as a Military Chaplain - there are many other types of chaplains in schools, hospitals etc where padre is not used - I know this is a common name for chaplains in the military but this page is not on military chaplains alone and as such I suggedt that you take padre out of the banner paragraph and move it to the section on military chaplains.

Best, Dr. James O'Higgins-Norman, former Head of Chaplaincy Studies, Mater Dei Institute of Education.

Thanks for this feedback - With your background you clearly have a great deal of knowledge of the subject; please feel free to improve the page. Springnuts 21:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

We are not referred to as "chaps" here in the British NHS. I do occasionally get called "padre". The most common mistake is to misspell the name as "Chaplin".

--Forager1969 22:14, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Soooo irritating. One Chaplain in the RN even opened a social centre with a Charlie Chaplin theme - possibly a sort of protest?! Springnuts 21:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As a US Navy chaplain, I can say that most of us hate the nickname "chaps." A vast majority of US Navy chaplains find that nickname to be somewhat disrespectful. (Personally, it reminds me of the Village People.) It seems that only the really bad chaplains love to be called that name, Gordon Klingenschmitt being the prime example. Perhaps there is some sort of a pharisaical dynamic to that word. USMC Padre (talk) 21:44, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Combatant status[edit]

I don't understand how one could both have noncombatant status, and be armed? Why do you have a gun if not to shoot someone - and then you would be a combatant. A soldier cannot deliberately target noncombatant, but that would mean they could not shoot a chaplain pointing a gun at him. Can someone explain? - Matthew238 04:36, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The best comparison is with civilian medics, who are specifically allowed by the Geneva Convention to carry weapons - allowing them to defend themselves and the wounded. The protection given by the Geneva Conventions is lost if a non combatant engages in hostilities. Failure to wear the red cross arm band does not in itself make a chaplain a legitimate target, but if he is with combatants he (or she) of course shares their risks. This links to ideas of incarnational ministry and whether Christian concepts of chaplaincy are fundamentally different from those of other religions.


--Springnuts 09:17, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the Chaplain I know whos a Commander in the Navy Reserves never holds a firearm.--64.121.37.2 21:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes that is the pattern in most Western armed forces. Springnuts 23:05, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The College of Pastoral Supervision and Psychotherapy[edit]

I have removed this link again - please explain if you want to put it in again why it is relevant here. Springnuts 16:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Mushroom for removing it again. Springnuts 09:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What links are appropriate?[edit]

I have restored Chaplain to the Nightclubs in Bournemouth as it is a good link, however we ought to think through what links are appropriate. Springnuts 09:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I have now removed all links that do not, imo, meet the criteria in Wikipedia:External links.

The removed code is below - feel free to reinstate if I have been too savage with the scythe. Springnuts 23:15, 14 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

List of Sending Organizations for U.S.?[edit]

I would be interested to see the list of approved religious denominations which are allowed to recommend champains to the U.S. military. I am wondering how the list was made up. For example, do denominations have to apply to qualify for the list? Or is it based on how many soldiers / sailors / etc. there are for each religion? I'm also wondering what the military does in the case of religions that don't have clergy. Thanks! --Zla'od (not registered) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 218.167.174.185 (talk • contribs) 10:04, 3 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Most interesting comment (religions that don't have clergy), as arguably "Chaplain" (as currently used) is, notwithstanding some parallels from other and earlier religions, a specifically Christian concept - which raises the question about whether creating chaplains of other faiths is a form of religous imperialism. Springnuts 15:53, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

proposed merge from Chaplain fire[edit]

The article appears to be someone's school report and rather than try to clean it up I thought it shoudl be merged here. Actually a redirect might be better but I'll leave that open for comment. --killing sparrows 02:33, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Simple Delete of Chaplain fire would be the way ahead imo - it appears to have no content worth merging. There is already a mention of Fire Chaplains in the section "Various Non-Military". It is not a plausible typo so a redirect is not appropriate. Springnuts 11:16, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a plan, I'll prod it. --killing sparrows 02:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict with the Executive[edit]

Difficult to find NPOV sources for this. Springnuts 22:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Garland Robertson case is hard to source online, The Christian Century magazine link was the only one I found in my (brief) search on the subject. Searches of newspaper archives would probably turn up better sources, which we don't see online because the event occurred more than a decade ago. I don't know how much weight to put on The Christian Century, given its POV; it can probably be relied upon to quote Robertson accurately, and to accurately cite events of public record.
The Gordon Klingenschmitt case has had plenty of coverage (Washington Post [3], NPR [4], Stars and Stripes[5]); NPOV sourcing shouldn't be too difficult.
There are probably other cases of conflict with the executive that could be added, or substituted for the Robertson case; the latter does, however, bookend nicely with the Klingenschmitt case.
The problem may be not so much the sources as the way they are summarized in this section's account; that can be fixed by NPOV editing. Baileypalblue 01:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Chaplain Heroes[edit]

From http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar/citations/foote

"Rev. John Weir Foote Dieppe August 19, 1942 Canadian Chaplain Services The Royal Hamilton Light Infantry

John Weir Foote was born in Madoc, Ontario, on the 5th of May 1904. He was educated at the University of Western Ontario, London; at Queen's University, Kingston; and at McGill University, Montréal . He then entered the Presbyterian Ministry, serving congregations in Fort-Coulonge, Québec and Port Hope, Ontario. In December 1939, he enlisted in the Canadian Chaplin Services and was posted to the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry. Following the action described in the citation, Major Foote was taken prisoner and was not released until the 5th of May 1945. He did not accept demobilization until 1948, remaining with the Canadian Chaplain Services until that time. Then he entered the political arena and represented Durham County in the Legislature of the Province of Ontario. He had for some time filled the post of Minister of Reform Institutions for Ontario. Major Foote is the only member of the Canadian Chaplain Services ever to be awarded the Victoria Cross. Prior to his death, he donated his medals to the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry. He made his home with his wife in Cobourg, Ontario, until his death on the 2nd of May 1988. He is buried in Union Cemetery, Cobourg. Citation 'At Dieppe on 19th August 1942, Honourary Captain Foote, Canadian Chaplain Services, was Regimental Chaplain with the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry.

Upon landing on the beach under heavy fire he attached himself to the Regimental Aid Post which had been set up in a slight depression on the beach, but which was only sufficient to give cover to men lying down. During the subsequent period of approximately eight hours, while the action continued, this officer not only assisted the Regimental Medical Officer in ministering to the wounded in the Regimental Aid Post, but time and again left this shelter to inject morphine, give first-aid and carry wounded personnel from the open beach to the Regimental Aid Post. On these occasions, with utter disregard for his personal safety, Honourary Captain Foote exposed himself to an inferno of fire and saved many lives by his gallant efforts. During the action, as the tide went out, the Regimental Aid Post was moved to the shelter of a stranded landing craft. Honourary Captain Foote continued tirelessly and courageously to carry wounded men from the exposed beach to the cover of the landing craft. He also removed wounded from inside the landing craft when ammunition had been set on fire by enemy shells. When landing craft appeared he carried wounded from the Regimental Aid Post to the landing craft through heavy fire. On several occasions this officer had the opportunity to embark but returned to the beach as his chief concern was the care and evacuation of the wounded. He refused a final opportunity to leave the shore, choosing to suffer the fate of the men he had ministered to for over three years.

Honourary Captain Foote personally saved many lives by his efforts and his example inspired all around him. Those who observed him state that the calmness of this heroic officer as he walked about, collecting the wounded on the fire-swept beach will never be forgotten."


The London Gazette, 14th February 1946"

Citation needed[edit]

Someone's asked for a citation that the four other faiths civilian chaplains were appointed at Lt col Grade.

It's clear they were appointed as C1 grade from here: http://www.redhotcurry.com/archive/news/2005/mod_chaplains.htm

As they were Tri-service appointments but managed by the Army, then C1 maps to Lt col: http://www.ncb.mod.uk/isisweba.htm

Good enough?

Split article into (a) Military Chaplaincy, and (b) the rest?[edit]

Hi all

It has been noted that the military element of the article is out of proportion to the rest. Might a suitable way ahead be to split the article? Grateful for views.

Springnuts 20:51, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds like a good idea. I'd like to suggest the main page be stripped down to a very basic generic definition with links to separate pages under the headings

Health Care Chaplains

Forces Chaplains

Chaplains in Education

Various Chaplaincies

If there are other forms of chaplaincy they can always be added later.

I am happy to have a go at the first one, as this is my area of specialty. I have recently created pages for the UK professional associations that exist for chaplains in health care.

--Forager1969 22:05, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I have copied the secion on Health Care Chaplains and given it its own page.

--Forager1969 22:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Splitting the article seems right. Could easily be done by removing much of the military content to a new article and leaving the basic information, development of the word and practice of chaplaincy.

--Johnduns 12:12, 23 September 2007

Comparison between USA and Canada[edit]

I have taken the liberty of removing a garbled line that made comparisons between the standards required for Canadian Health Care Chaplains and American Military Chaplains. It's not relevant to anything.

--Forager1969 22:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Domestic chaplain[edit]

What is a domestic chaplain? Cutler 13:27, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Queen has domestic chaplains. The Dean of Windsor is one I think. But not domesticated. Springnuts 22:06, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Varley, E. A. (2004) "Maltby, Edward (1770–1859)", Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford University Press, accessed 11 Aug 2007 (subscription required) - says that Maltby became "domestic chaplain" to George Pretyman in 1794 and consequently got "a Lincoln prebend and two vicarages: Buckden, Huntingdonshire and Holbeach, Lincolnshire." What did he have to do for such a handsome reward? Cutler 11:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Got it - all I had to do was get hold of a copy of Gibson, W. (1997). A Social History of the Domestic Chaplain, 1530-1840. London: Leicester University Press. ISBN 0-7185-0093-8. - new section added.Cutler 10:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

unbalanced images[edit]

Currently on this page there are five photos of military chaplains, one photo of a hospital chaplain, and no photos of other types of chaplains. Efforts should be made to add photos of other types of chaplains and perhaps reduce the number of military chaplains, because it is only one type of many (more extensive photos, of course, can go in the subarticle Military chaplain). Mangostar (talk) 00:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For that matter, all four images of actual chaplains at work represent Christian chaplains. Surely there must be one or two useable photos somewhere of non-Christian chaplains at work, to offer a better cross-section? 12.76.170.239 (talk) 02:42, 7 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Because I think you're right, I've added a number of photos, including two more military chaplains -- but this time, Jewish and Muslim, a fire department chaplain (killed while ministering to the wounded at the world trade centers, on 9/11), a university chaplain, a parliamentary chaplain (continental congress), and a beautiful stained-glass window (part of the Pentagon chaplain) memorializing the four chaplains who died together, helping others, on the USAT Dorchester. I am trying to find a photo of a police chaplain, as well! Resnicoff (talk) 15:08, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Corporate Chaplains of America.[edit]

Should You Hire a Workplace Chaplain? has some information on corporate chaplains. I've removed the following material from this article, placed there by an IP editor today, which reads like promotional material for Corporate Chaplains of American. Don't have time to put together a section here, but it could be done from the source above, if that source is considered sufficiently reliable. Certainly better than the lack of source for the CCA material:

Similar to the visible hardhat or briefcase, these personal issues are brought into the workplace as emotional baggage each day. Corporate Chaplains of America was founded in 1996 by Mark Cress to provide genuine “Caring in the Workplace.” This care follows a structured business plan built upon process management principles.
The organization employs full-time, long-term career chaplains who combine workplace experience with professional chaplaincy training. In addition to holding masters degree or higher educational training, all chaplains complete 154 hours of continuing education training as the first step in the chaplain career path.
Desiring to be America’s leading full-time corporate chaplaincy agency, Corporate Chaplains of America is a pioneer in the workplace, being the first to provide:
  • A process-managed system to provide seamless integration of its chaplaincy system into companies large and small, public and private, serving businesses in practically every SIC industry classification. Some clients employ as few as 10 associates, while others have in excess of 10,000.
  • An exclusively full-time workforce of highly trained professional chaplains with an exceptionally high retention rate in excess of 93 percent over the history of the organization.
  • Significant investment (more than $500,000) in integrated continuing education systems designed to keep chaplain skills current. :*Long-term career pathways for chaplains and support staff.
  • Full-time headquarters staff dedicated exclusively to chaplain recruitment.
  • Branded uniform clothing consistent with workplace environment attire.
  • Universal continuing education training and emotional decompression events. Tri-annually, all chaplains retreat from the field as a group for three days to recharge emotionally and enhance skills.
  • Strong financial controls, leading to the top financial ranking of any agency in the industry according to Guidestar.com, a non-profit watchdog group.
The organizational vision of Corporate Chaplains of America is to employ over 1,000 full-time chaplains, serving over 1 million employees by 2012.

--Abd (talk) 22:39, 30 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Military Casualty Rate[edit]

There is an in-line citation supporting the idea that the chaplaincy has the highest casualty rate in the military. This citation should be moved to a footnote. 24.131.79.170 (talk) 00:19, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Need help with Multi-denominational[edit]

While editing another article that described a significant Multi-denominational religious service, I attempted to wikilink it but it was redirected to a for profit organization. I changed the redirect to Religious denomination, an article that was previously unsourced and seems to be very incomplete. I then added a section describing multi-denominational to satisfy my need to define to support the article I was originally working with so it meets my needs at the moment.

However, due to my lifetime of exposure to the US Military, I know that my poor attempt at defining it and describing the concept will never do the concept justice. Perhaps someone much more expert then I can improve that section beyond what I could hope to do.

Sincerely. Veriss (talk) 21:52, 18 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Plethora of Images[edit]

Isn't the article rather over-illustrated - to the point where it detracts from the text? Could some of the images be moved to a Gallery? Jack1956 (talk) 15:52, 8 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please see section on "unbalanced images" above. More images were added because of discussion in that section. NearTheZoo (talk) 02:19, 9 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I saw that - but can't some of them be put in a gallery to balance out the text? The article is a bit image heavy. Jack1956 (talk) 20:39, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jack1956 -- if you know how to make a gallery and you think that would be better, then you obviously know more about wikipedia than I do, and I for one would certainly trust your judgment. I do think it is important to keep most if not all of these photos if at all possible, since they represent chaplains of different religions and types, partly as a response to earlier complaints (that you also saw) that there was an imbalance. I think the article is still good, balancing images and texts -- but again, I would trust you if you made changes. Good luck! NearTheZoo (talk) 21:58, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your confidence in me! I have moved some of the images to a gallery; I did it in one edit, so if you or any one else doesn't like how it looks it can be 'undone' easily. Thanks. Jack1956 (talk) 23:04, 15 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Law Enforcement section[edit]

The text of the section on law enforcement is entirely sourced from the website of a chaplaincy organization. As such it may not be neutral and reads as an advertisment. --Dishcmds (talk) 00:54, 10 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Agreed, it does look like an ad. there is no evidence that this org is a RS. Further, they use their being mentioned in this article as "evidence" of their legitimacy [6]. Starting to look WP:CIRCULAR as well as self-promotional. Niteshift36 (talk) 15:29, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal[edit]

I propose that CORPORATE CHAPLAINS be merged into Chaplain. Chris the speller yack 16:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not at the moment, imo. The whole area is a mess. Military Chaplains, corporate chaplains, chaplains, hospital chaplains, pet chaplains ... At this stage I would rather a group were to give some thought to achieving a consensus on the articles needed, and what material needs to be in each. Otherwise we are just splashing around. Just my 1p worth :) Friendly regards, Springnuts (talk) 23:03, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The version with the horrible plural, shouted title has been deleted. But its content can be found in the history of corporate chaplain. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 22:39, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Definition of minister[edit]

I added a new WikiLink for minister in the first section. I was unsure of the definition and thought a link would be helpful. The WikiLink only leads to the words in a Christian sense. Please take away if inappropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrNiceGuy1113 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mormon Chaplains[edit]

Hello

Are there Mormon chaplains? If so, what institutions (military, prison, hospitals, accept them? What qualifications must they have. Prsaucer1958 (talk) 00:06, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

When I was in the U.S. Army, our battalion Chaplain was a Mormon minister (and when we deployed, we had a Jewish one). I assume they must have the same requirements of any U.S. Army Chaplain: a 4-yr bachelor's degree in any field, plus a 120+ credit Masters degree in a theology/ministry related major (most common is the Master of Divinity degree), 2 years full-time ministry experience, and a denominational endorsement (obtained from the relevant denomination, in this case, the LDS Church). 97.121.151.81 (talk) 10:38, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Neutrality[edit]

Reading through the Schools section of the article, it strikes me that the unreferenced claim that "chaplains are an essential appointment within the life of a school community who seek to be constantly present for all pupils, staff and parents to walk alongside them on life’s spiritual journey." is not neutral, it asserts one point of view on the subject without acknowledging the opposing view that they are unnecessary or that other options such as a social or youth worker exist as an alternative.

Wikidmage (talk) 06:35, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Animal, Music, Prison chaplains & other edits[edit]

I came to the page to add a section on animal chaplains, and then noticed the categories of chaplains could be better organized in alphabetical order. Did that, with a few minor modifications to text (like merging school and educational). Added a piece about music to that subcategory.

Came to the "prison" subcategory and noticed citations needed and a couple of problematic paragraphs. The first is below, expounds more on the reasons for prison than I believe belongs in an article about chaplaincy. Will delete this: "The State has the twofold responsibility about crime and punishment: to discourage behavior that is harmful to human rights and the fundamental norms of civil life, and to repair, through the penal system, the disorder created by criminal activity. Judicial and penal institutions play a fundamental role in protecting citizens and safeguarding the common good. By their very nature these institutions must contribute to the rehabilitation of offenders. So, prisons are a reality of any society. But, quite often, prison causes more problems than it solves.[citation needed]"

The second paragraph discusses an article by Vince Drum. I found a link to the article, but it doesn't say what the writer would have it say, so will delete this and edit accordingly: "Vance Drum wrote and presented a paper at the American Correctional Association on the nature of the professional prison Generally speaking, prisoners are often persons excluded, aborted from society. Prisoners easily can be overwhelmed by feelings of isolation, shame and rejection that threaten to shatter their hopes and aspirations for the future.[citation needed]"

On another note, I tidied up the external links a bit. When I got to the "talk" page here, I noticed that one of our previous colleague editors, Springnuts, deleted a lot of links to other pages. I thought some of them were interesting. Maybe it would be a good thing to have as another article section, the various chaplaincy organizations.

Canadianknowledgelover (talk) 09:04, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Prison Chaplaincy[edit]

Removed information on the Madison program as it was noted as being very different from typical prison chaplain programs. The article should contain a better description of typical chaplain work first before presenting a unique situation. Ehgarrick (talk) 18:26, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Portal sidebar[edit]

I've removed the Catholicism portal sidebar which in some viewing formats takes up a large prominent space toward the top of the page. Clearly chaplaincy covers multiple faith and belief systems and this sidebar is hugely misleading as it leads the casual reader to assume this is a page concerning Catholicism. It violates WP:PORTG portal guidelines "Portals should not be a vehicle for advocacy or advertisement". Mramoeba (talk) 20:01, 16 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Short description[edit]

Hi Erp! Per WP:SDFORMAT, we should be aiming for a target length of 40 characters or less. The current description is 96 characters, more than twice over that. I'll defer to you about what would be more appropriate than the current description, but I don't think this is a page where it's necessary to go much over the target limit. Please keep in mind that short descriptions are intended to help with disambiguation, not to be a full mini-definition of the subject. Cheers, {{u|Sdkb}} talk 18:48, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Understand though the initial shorter choice had a lot of ambiguity. Perhaps "a spiritual representative attached to a secular institution" (admittedly grabbed from elsewhere). --Erp (talk) 00:09, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Drop the leading "a" and that sounds good. If we wanted to shorten further, we could say {{tq|spiritual representative at a secular institution}}. Go with whichever sounds good. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:15, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article seems like nonsense[edit]

From what I can understand, this article seems like complete nonsense. The introduction claims that a chaplain is a person who belongs to a religious faith… OR a secular person who doesn't belong to any religious faith. So, in other words, a chaplain is simply "a person"! That is all the intro tells us. That a chaplain is "a person". What does this "person" do? The introduction merely states WHERE chaplains work, with no indication given of what they do, since they may or may NOT be religious.

Deeper in the article, we find all kinds of jumbled job descriptions, some pertaining to religious faith (eg prayer) and some pertaining to the secular world (eg counselling). These, surely, are two completely unrelated jobs with absolutely nothing in common. They are two diametrically opposed jobs - one is to provide spiritual ministering from a religious standpoint under a shared belief in a particular God - the other is to provide atheistic non-spiritual ministering in the absence of a belief in God.

Surely this article ought to be two separate articles? One describing the traditional kind of chaplain who has a set of religious beliefs - the other describing this new kind of secular chaplain who does NOT have a set of religious beliefs and sounds more like a counsellor?

It seems to me that the only thing these two jobs have in common is they happen to share the same name, thus they are homographs. Grand Dizzy (talk) 03:42, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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