Talk:Chatsworth House

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Expansion[edit]

This is just a note on the sections I am planning to expand or add, mainly intended as a checklist for myself. Oliver Chettle 14:36, 3 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

History - key phases all now done
Interiors:

  • The 1st Duke's
  • The 6th Duke's
  • The private rooms

The collections
The stables - now done
The farmyard
The park and woods
The estate - now done
Visitors' Chatsworth (mainly history)

The garden alone came in at over 2,100 words, but I'll try to get it all done over the next few weeks.

Photo request[edit]

This article is in need of some more and better illustrations. I'm sure someone who will read it will be visiting this summer, so please take and upload some photos if you can. There's enough text to accompany quite a few, and I will be adding more, so it would be great to have a selection along the lines of:

  • The West Front, perhaps incorporating Paine's bridge
  • The South Front
  • The canal and fountains
  • The cascade
  • Revelation
  • The rockery
  • Some attractive corner of the woodland gardens
  • The stables
  • The hunting lodge
  • Some interiors (unusually photography is permitted if I remember rightly) eg, painted hall, state dining room, chapel, dining room, sculpture gallery.

And of course anything else catches your eye. It will be great if someone can do this. Oliver Chettle 22:10, 4 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Chatsworth & Rights of Way[edit]

I've put in something about the Chatsworth estate's retroguard fight over the RoW on the Derbyshire definitive footpath map. This is based on bitter experience (I well remember three of us being marched back down the hill by a red-nosed bailiff with a blackthorn! If it reads too PoV then we'll hack :-) Linuxlad 19:28, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Maybe I have the wrong place, but was there not some big trouble with the Dukes of Devonshire and trespassing ramblers in the 1930, with mass arrests, or was this some other Duke? Giano | talk 18:22, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, I think the present Duke's great-grandfather was one of those who opposed the Kinder trespass (see the Ramblers Association for praise for the more enlightened attitude of his grandson (who died in 2004) in supporting 'right to roam'). Many of the Derbyshire Moors had strong proprietary shooting rights up until ww2, and shutting of the Northern Moors for shooting was carried on post-war under the Peak Park's control. My own particular 'run-in' was in the 70s and was over a disputed RoW over farmland, not moorland. Such disputes were fairly common, I recollect, in areas with strong landed interests, as the definitive footpath map neared conclusion, . Bob aka Linuxlad 20:59, 16 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think this is one of the best Wikipedia articles on a country house, but I do think the paragraph: "The Dukes of Devonshire have traditionally been welcoming of visitors" is misleading. They have not - unless it suited their own pockets, and there is nothing wrong with that - why should they? I know in previous ages well dressed strangers were admitted to most country houses so long as they were clean and tipped the housekeeper, but this is not quite the same as having the hoi-polloi marching over the front lawn and the grouse moor. Andrew and Deborah Devonshire did amazing things to Chatsworth and the paying, viewing public have benefited enormously but as a whole the Dukes of Devonshire have not welcomed visitors in the sense the article implies. The public road is maintained (like the one which runs through Woburn Deer Park) by the local authority, and the public footpaths exist by historical right not the munificence of the Devonshires. Giano | talk 08:57, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia removal[edit]

With such a well-organised article, would it not make sense to integrate the two trivia entries (or random fact, as the original addition had it)? Only problem is, whilst the Pride and Prejudice filming is mentioned on the official Chatsworth website, I don't see anything about being licensed to celebrate marriages, whether in the house, in the gardens, or on the estate generally. I can find a number of "located on the Chatsworth estate" places with Google, but that's not quite the same thing. So is the comment about marrying at Chatsworth House actually a fact at all? I know it says so in the Michael Vaughan article, but that's all. I'm now so unsure that I have removed the trivia section to here for the time being.

Chatsworth House was used in the recent remake of the film Pride and Prejudice.
England cricket captain Michael Vaughan and his Irish childhood sweetheart Nichola Shannon got married at Chatsworth House on 27 September 2003.

..for someone more knowledgeable about Chatsworth to deal with.

--Telsa (talk) 13:56, 21 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Distance from Bakewell[edit]

I appreciate the desire to be more accurate, and Chatsworth is certainly more significantly east of Bakewell than it is north; but do we really add anything useful by saying "approx" and "north east"? I thought the first edit today (...3½ miles east of Bakewell...) was best, by erring on the side of clarity than perfect precision. --VinceBowdren 18:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Winter on the Chatsworth Estate"[edit]

The last time I checked, oak trees didn't have leaves in winter... Gunstar hero (talk) 01:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chatsworth needs copy subbing[edit]

This article needs to be written.

As someone has earlier noted, the intro is lousy, it's like reading a travel brochure and many sections of just ramble.

Secondly the tone wanders between the formal to the informal (with plenty of weasel words and opinion). Also the grammar can't make its mind up whether to be active or passive.

This article has a lot of potential but it needs a tight rein to mould it into shape. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.154.164 (talk) 10:35, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Do you want the whole article re-written or sections? Bladeofgrass (talk) 22:38, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Needs thorough referencing as well. I've just put it on the list of "top importance" architecture articles, as one of the most significant pieces of domestic architecture in England. Amandajm (talk) 12:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Renaming proposal[edit]

This article is called "Chatsworth House" but it is about much more than that, as at least half of it is about the gardens and estate, which are a also large part of its attraction. I propose that the name be changed to 'Chatsworth Estate' or 'Chatsworth house and gardens' to reflect the content of the article. This would, of course, mean that a redirect page from 'Chatsworth House' would be created, so that anyone entering that name in the search box would be redirected to this article. Richerman (talk) 00:57, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I take your point, maybe Chatsworth Estate would be better, given the article's scope. But Chatsworth House is by far the better search term. - Highfields (talk, contribs) 20:55, 3 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting Events[edit]

I would like to propose that a short referral should be added regarding the large international scouting camps that were held in the park, most notably 'peak 80' and 'peak 95', each with several thousand participants from around the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.3.88.23 (talk • contribs) 14:16, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I'd say these events probably aren't notable in the context of the history of Chatsworth. There have been lots of outdoor concerts at Chatsworth, and doubtless other gatherings over the years, that have also attracted thousands but aren't mentioned. But I don't feel particularly strongly. If you decide to go ahead, maybe rename the section "Country Fair" to "Events" and add it there. Doesn't warrant more than a sentence or two, anyway. Dave.Dunford (talk) 15:18, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If a reliable source mentions the camps, that would confirm notability. I suspect however that due to the historical nature of the camps, sources may be hard to come by. On a slightly broader point, having an "Events" section would enable easy expansion of info about the horse trials (plus any other notable happenings), so perhaps makes sense anyway, regardless of whether or not the scout camps are added. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 15:41, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Belated check. All links work, although archive links aren't given for first two, for some reason. Dhtwiki (talk) 23:15, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Treatment of staff[edit]

There is no mention in the article about the problems faced by staff, particularly in the catering and retail areas, caused by the anti social hours they are forced to work, for low remuneration. This is as interesting to readers as what the facade looks like or what the current duke is doing, surely. Staff are constantly resigning due to poor higher level management. Neutron230 (talk) 07:21, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a mixture of original research, opinion and recentism to me, I'm afraid. Even if you found a reliable source to back up your claims, it's debatable whether the accusations are sufficiently notable to warrant mention in a fairly short article about a centuries-old building. In short, I don't think it should go in. Dave.Dunford (talk) 08:41, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Catering staff are notoriously low paid in the UK and in many other places too, so it's not really worthy of mention - rather like saying " the trees in the park have green leaves in summer." If they are exceptionally poorly paid at Chatsworth and there is a history of staffing disputes then it needs to be referenced and impartial. Giano (talk) 17:57, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Pronunciation[edit]

@Bmcln1: You do realize that ɜː is converted to /ɜːr/ by IPAc-en anyway, right? That's what the diaphonemic system is. It accounts for most major varieties of English, so we don't need separate ones for each accent. /ɜːr/ in this case represents not a "rhotic sound", but rather "the vowel in words like NURSE". --maczkopeti (talk) 09:43, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I see (sort of). Bmcln1 (talk) 10:22, 8 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Bmcln1: Scotland and Northern Ireland are part of the United Kingdom too, and they have plenty of rhotic speakers. Also, adding a UK English tag doesn't mean the pronunciation has to be UK-specific. Most UK and US-specific articles still use a diaphonemic notation. --maczkopeti (talk) 18:37, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if anyone, other than those who add these aids de pronunciation, has the foggiest idea how these odd signs and symbols are supposed to tell us how to pronounce a word. For the record it is “Chats” to rhyme with cats, and then “worth” to rhyme with turf, with the emphasis on the first syllable. Is that what the odd text is telling us? Giano (talk) 20:08, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, those rhymes are correct. Bmcln1 (talk) 21:00, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
They do look complicated, but if you hover the cursor over each of the symbols you get a simple explanation of how they sound. Richerman (talk) 21:18, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Giano: And also, there is the {{Respell}} template which goes according to Help:RESPELL that can be an aid for non-IPA readers. — oi yeah nah mate amazingJUSSO ... [ɡəˈdæɪ̯]! 02:55, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I would consider removing the pronunciation altogether. I don't think anyone would pronounce chats and worth differently. --maczkopeti (talk) 07:00, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Maczkopeti: Good idea. This should hopefully remove all conflicts.
@Bmcln1: I'm from Australia — where /ɜːr/ is also pronounced as /ɜː/. However I can completely understand the need of flexibility of rhotic transcriptions yet being compact at the same time. — oi yeah nah mate amazingJUSSO ... [ɡəˈdæɪ̯]! 11:45, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Somerimes life does seem to become unnecessarily complicated. Of course, there is always the chance a French person could happen upon the article, in which case “Chat”could be made to rhyme with “Shat”, which would be a pity. Giano (talk) 13:07, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The transcription is signaled as phonemic / /, not phonetic [ ]. The /r/ should there. And it does no harm whatsoever to give the affricate, which may not be obvious to all. --47.32.20.133 (talk) 15:41, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Giano: True that, but this is the English version of Wikipedia, which is aimed at English-language speakers (i.e. following the rules of English). Besides, a French person would more likely visit their own language Wikipedia, so wouldn't they have their own pronunciation guides as well as a localised pronunciation in French? This would surely make life an improvement should specific languages be distinguished! — oi yeah nah mate amazingJUSSO ... [ɡəˈdæɪ̯]! 19:07, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid I don't follow. The issue is pronunciation of Chatsworth in English. Native speakers are all, or almost all, going to guess that <ch> is representing the affricate. Most non-natives with basic knowledge of English will, too. But given charade, chandelier, chaos, charisma (etc.), there's no reason not to make it absolutely clear. --47.32.20.133 (talk) 22:01, 13 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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