Talk:Mongkut

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ENGLISH PLEASE!![edit]

This is NOT the Thai Wikepedia so please make sure you are proficient in the ENGLISH language before you edit this page. If you're not, then stick to updating the Thai Wikipedia. What the hell is "It subjected to the debate of Westerners and Mongkut finally ended" supposed to mean??? Just because you had a year or two of English in whatever crappy schools you went to in those rice paddies of yours does not mean you're expert enough to edit the English Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.95.148.252 (talk) 15:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

according to Wikipedia´s own rules about naming monarchs, this needs to be changed [1]

Antares911 11:30, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC), requesting move from Mongkut to Rama IV of Thailand.

Please see the result of the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Thailand-related articles)#Article names for Thai royals/Thai with honorary titles first. andy 11:49, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I hereby decided to deny that request to move. Arrigo 12:37, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for reading my imcomplete English. I do not think Anna's letting Chulalongkorn read "Uncle Tom's Cabin" is an inspiration to liberate slaves. However he knew that his country must be modernised to equalise "unequall" relationship with western countries and thought slaves must be liberated to it. In short, it was a MUST for Chulalongkorn. It is not a Hollywood movie nor Anna's book. Above all, Anna's book is said inconfident because the book has bunds of wrongs or fakes. So please think about the article again.

King Mongkut reigned as Phra Chomklao Chaoyuhua not Phra Mongkut Klao Chaoyuhua. Phra Mongkut Klao Chaoyuhua is a royal name of King Rama VI (Vajiravudh).

Fixed. Apparently a user misunderstood the disambiguation message at the top and incorporated it into the article. Perhaps a template should be used, but I'm not sure which will confer the same message? --Paul C 02:59, 25 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Date of Death[edit]

Thai sources suggest the correct date of death is October 1 not October 18. Some english sources such as [2] say that he died on his 64th birthday, yes, it's [almost] true but based on the Thai lunar calendar. For reference in english (not mentioning thai lunar calendar), take a look at [3]. This correction also clarify why Chulalongkorn succeeded his father on October 1, 1868 --NaiPiak 07:52, 17 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It seem that he died 2 weeks rather than 6 weeks after the eclipse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgwooster (talk • contribs) 19:01, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Biographies?[edit]

Are there any modern, accurate (ie not Anna Leonowens biased) English language biographies written about Mongkut? 68.116.143.113 20:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LC Control No 73180908:

Mongkut, King of Siam, 1804-1868. Uniform Title: Selections. English. 1948 The King of Siam speaks, by Seni Pramoj and Kukrit Pramoj. [Bangkok, 1948] 247 l. 35 cm. Most Thai were shocked by the portrayal of their revered nineteenth-century king, Mongkut, in the musical The King and I. The stage and screen versions were based on Margaret Landon's 1944 book entitled Anna and the King of Siam. To correct the record, well-known Thai intellectuals Seni Kukrit Pramoj wrote this account in 1948. The Pramoj brothers sent their manuscript to the American politician and diplomat Abbot Low Moffat 1901-1996), who drew on it for his biography entitled Mongkut the King of Siam (1961). Moffat donated the Pramoj manuscript to the Library in 1961. (Southeast Asian Collection, Asian Division, Library of Congress)

Also from Library of Congress; LC Control No.:

61016666:

Moffat, Abbot Low, 1901-1996 Mongkut, the King of Siam. Ithaca, N.Y., Cornell University Press [1961] 254 p. illus. 23 cm. Moffat considers Mongkut to be one of the great men of Siam, and seeks to recover him from the well-loved fictions. Includes a number of black-and-white illustrations. He is skeptical of the reliability of Anna Leonowns accounts and analyzes some of them.

61001018:

Griswold, Alexander B. King Mongkut of Siam. New York, Asia Society [c1961] 60 p. illus. 22 cm.

71290376: Manich Jumsai, M.L., 1908- , King Mongkut and Sir John Bowring (from Sir John Bowring’s personal files, kept at the Royal Thai Embassy in London).

Bangkok, Chalermnit, 1970. 240 p. illus., ports. 27 cm.

73941070: Blofeld, John Eaton Calthorpe, 1913-

King Maha Mongkut of Siam [by] John Blofeld. Singapore, Asia Pacific Press [1972] x, 97 p. port. 23 cm.

Elephants vs. Steam Engines[edit]

I looked for the source that someone requested, for the quote about Lincoln saying that the elephants weren't needed, because the work could be done by steam engines. Although the quote seems plausible, it originates with this "new age" blog: [4] and therefore I am removing it. --Maybellyne (talk) 06:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC) Having writen that portion myself some years ago, I have fixed it, by putting what Maybellyne has removed back in, with the source that I hope would satisfy the Wiki community. The quote is not only plausible, but also authentic. Before the reference was made by the so-called new-age blog, President Lincoln himself said so in his own letter to King Mongkut. That's where it originated from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.0.3.123 (talk) 03:15, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bowring Treaty British in Siam > British subjects in Siam[edit]

Not just the British, but ALL British subjects in Siam enjoyed extraterritoriality, and were subject to British law. There were, however, no British courts, judges, lawyers or law offices, so cases were referred to a British consul for disposition. One of them arrived in Siam in about 1898 as an 18-year-old trainee and remained for the rest of his life. I wish I could remember his name, for he wrote in his memoirs what it was like - including the case of a rambunctious British ghost.

By far the majority of British subjects in Siam were from India, and persons who are or appear to be of Indian origin are called kak แขก guest, visitor. This may or may not be a legacy of the treaty. So Sethaputra's dictionary entry says the word was not restricted to British subjects, per se, but is Pali for stranger. It is used as a racial epithet for an Indian, Malay, Near or Middle Easterner, North African or negro, and never for Burmese, Cambodian, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese or white man. When not a racial epithet, it merely mean guest or visitor. --Pawyilee (talk) 06:50, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

antiquarian attainments and modern scepticism[edit]

Introducing Western Geography should be changed to something along the lines of Introducing Western Thinking. John Crawfurd's journal notes that he dealt with officials motivated by avarice and utterly lacking in statecraft, but that can be seen as the logical result of the worldview in Mandala (Southeast Asian history), which was also the worldview of Europe until, as that article notes, it gradually changed as an inadvertent byproduct of 15th-century advances in map-making technologies. Royal Thai Survey Department notes that modern map making in Thailand began in 1875 in the reign of Mongkut's son. Mongkut had begun the radical change, but was still a product of his age. I'm asking other editors to help in merging this into the article, and will dig out Crawfurd's reference to avarice later, but meanshile offer as background this quote from Anna Leonowens:

.... In his long seclusion in a Buddhist cloister he had acquired habits of severe simplicity and frugality, as a preparation for the exercise of those powers of mental concentration for which he was remarkable. At these morning repasts it was his custom to detain me in conversation relating to some topic of interest derived from his studies, or in reading or translating. He was more systematically educated, and a more capacious devourer of books and news, than perhaps any man of equal rank in our day. But much learning had made him morally mad; his extensive reading had engendered in his mind an extreme scepticism concerning all existing religious systems. In inborn integrity and steadfast principle he had no faith whatever. He sincerely believed that every man strove to compass his own ends, per fas et nefas[through right or wrong]. The mens sibi conscia recti [A mind conscious of its own rectitude] was to him an hallucination, for which he entertained profound contempt; and he honestly pitied the delusion that pinned its faith on human truth and virtue. He was a provoking mélange of antiquarian attainments and modern scepticism. When, sometimes, I ventured to disabuse his mind of his darling scorn for motive and responsibility, I had the mortification to discover that I had but helped him to an argument against myself: it was simply "my peculiar interest to do so." Money, money, money! that could procure anything.^[1]

^ Leonowens, Anna Harriette. "XI. The Ways of the Palace". The English Governess at the Siamese Court. Boston: James R. Osgood and Company. {{cite book}}: External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

--Pawyilee (talk) 05:36, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Who watched the Solar Eclipse?[edit]

According to this article, it was Sir Harry Ord, the British Governor of Straits Settlements from Singapore. But according to this source it was “the Governor of Singapore, Henry Orde”. Which version is correct? --109.85.247.203 (talk) 20:36, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Harry" is a common nickname for "Henry," with some people believing that is always the case. --Pawyilee (talk) 12:51, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anna Leonowens and slavery[edit]

There's a good portion of that has been unsourced for a while now that slavery system is different between US and Thailand. There is article written on it found on google here. But I'm not sure how to go with sourcing format. But at lease we can get rid of the pesky "It should be noted" [5] Suredeath (talk) 18:56, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Try the following:

{{cite book |last=Rodriguez |first=Junius P. |title=The historical encyclopedia of world slavery |year=1997 |publisher=ABC-CLIO |location=Santa Barbara, Calif. |isbn=9780874368857 |edition=2nd print.}}

--Paul_012 (talk) 13:09, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks.Suredeath (talk) 01:02, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Contents box[edit]

Nr. 17-22 in the contents box are identical with Nr. 23-28. It's double. I tried, but don't know how to remove the double part. Is anyone able remove this? Bjjansen (talk) 23:46, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The whole article was accidentally duplicated in an earlier edit. I've reverted it (and the addition of a photo to the Elephant story section which wasn't related to the elephant story). --101.108.104.171 (talk) 01:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wako[edit]

Wako is south to Whae Wan, not Hua Hin, and Whae Wan (Whae Whan) is probably Prachuap Khiri Khan, see this map. Шурбур (talk) 10:52, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] Leonowens, Anna Harriette. "XI. The Ways of the Palace". The English Governess at the Siamese Court. Boston: James R. Osgood and Company. {{cite book}}: External link in |chapterurl= (help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl= ignored (|chapter-url= suggested) (help)

[1]