Talk:Fallen (Evanescence album)

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Good articleFallen (Evanescence album) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 26, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
June 5, 2016Guild of Copy EditorsCopyedited
January 9, 2017Good article nomineeListed
February 24, 2017Good topic candidatePromoted
February 8, 2020Good topic removal candidateDemoted
Current status: Good article

untitled[edit]

The image is too large. Ideally it should be no more than 200x200 pixels in size. Also could you please add information to images when uploading such as copyright, year, who owns it etc. Iam 00:25, Mar 31, 2004 (UTC)

I found out by own experience that the best size is 215x* (since the height may vary) --KeyStorm 22:05, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Terrible Mistake[edit]

Australia, is NOT part of Asia, if it must come under the asia headline, which is very inaccurate, it should AT LEAST say "Asia/Pacific". However, since the others are sorted by continent, i think it would be appropriate to do the same for ALL countries and put Australia under the continent Australia.


Do you think it should mention how many times Fallen has gone platinum in contries other than America? because in Australia it is 7x Platinum Zacanescence 04:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you are welcome to add it to the "Charts" section yourself, or I can add it when I do my sweep of reformatting the various Evanescence articles (whenever that may be). Up to you. -- Huntster T • @ • C 04:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA Nomination[edit]

This article falls below GA standards at present - needs a lot more work. LuciferMorgan 00:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Write your reasons. Armando.Otalk • Ev 00:57, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, will do...;

1. All cites need to use a cite template and need retrieval dates.

2. Not comprehensive at all - compare this GA nominee to an album I recently got to GA, namely Christ Illusion. The difference is immense;

Critical reception? There's none there.
A section dealing with lyrical themes? Not present either.
Too many boxes. You're going for a Good article, not list.
A lead summarising the article? The whole lead has more prose than the rest of the article.

As I said, this article needs a ton of work. I suggest peer review, and being receptive to suggestions for improvement - I highlighted areas for improvement in the Amy Lee PR but nobody responded. Good luck getting this article to GA, but it needs a lot more work yet. LuciferMorgan 01:43, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the extensive work needed that I outlined above, I'm failing the article. I hope you'll consider addressing the concerns I outlined. If you feel my concerns are unjust, feel free to seek a review at WP:GA/R. LuciferMorgan 18:27, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

??? First, all cite need to use a cite template??? Who says that?? Have you read this WP:WIAGA??? Here says that citations are essential, but not that the use of cite templates is obligatory.
Second, critical recption. If you haven't read, under the charts is this.
Fallen spent 58 weeks on the Billboard Top 20, and 100 weeks on the Billboard Top 200. In the UK, the album spent 33 weeks on the Top 20, and 60 weeks on the Top 75. However, Fallen reentered the UK charts at Number 35 during week 41 of 2006, the week that The Open Door opened at Number 2.Fallen advanced to Number 34 the following week, before falling back out of the Top 40 two weeks later."Fallen" ruled the United World Chart for a total of eight weeks, (seven weeks in 2003, and one week in 2004) That's the critical reception, isn't it?? Looks like you haven't read the article very well.
A section dealing with lyrical themes? Not present either. Where is it mentioned that it's obligatory?
Too many boxes. You're going for a Good article, not list. Too many boxes??? You mean tables?? Is wrong that an article have tables??
A lead summarising the article? The whole lead has more prose than the rest of the article. Ok, maybe you are right here. Nothing of critical reception or cite templates or lyrics description is mentioned in the GA critera. I really think your review is bad. You may be right in that thing of the lead, but that other stuff have nothing to do with the GA criteria. Armando.Otalk • Ev 21:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's not critical reception — that's an analysis of chart performance. While you're correct in saying nothing specifies critical reception in the GA criteria, I think for any half-decent article of this type you really ought to have at last some cited comments from reviewers to demonstrate what the overall response to the album was in the media. Otherwise the coverage doesn't look very comprehensive at all. Angmering 21:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Look, Lucifer compared this article with Christ Illusion

Reception and criticism

Christ Illusion was released on August 8, 2006 by American Recordings / Warner Bros. Records. In its first week of release, the album sold 62,000 copies in the United States and debuted at number 5 on the Billboard Chart, the band's highest chart position to date, and their first top 10 charting since 1994's Divine Intervention.[31] Despite its Billboard top ten debut, the album dropped to number 44 the following week.[32] Christ Illusion reached number 9 in Australia,[33] number 3 in Canada, number 6 in Austria, number 8 in the Netherlands, number 10 in Norway and debuted at number 2 in Finland[34] and Germany.[35] The single "Eyes of the Insane" won the "Best Metal Performance" category at the 49th Grammy Awards.[36] Now Angmering, that's not critical reception?

Well, maybe you mean that this... Fallen spent 58 weeks on the Billboard Top 20................ is not critical recpetion, but reception. Armando.Otalk • Ev 22:00, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion has been resumed at Good article review. LuciferMorgan 22:32, 26 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cover Art[edit]

Could whoever keeps changing the cover art please stop. What you change it to is misleading and makes it appear as if the re-issue of fallen had different cover art. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.242.96.200 (talk • contribs) 04:41, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Except that the artwork did change on reissue! Why else would we include the other reissue cover had it not? If you would check Amazon.com you will see these two distinct covers, with the top one being issued first, and the bottom one being reissued at points later on. -- Huntster T • @ • C 17:06, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It didn't. I challenge anyone to post up a picture of a physical copy of their CD with that artwork. Until then i'm changing it back because i own both the original and the reissue (and infact a cassette tape and the official taiwan version) and they all have the artwork you call the "reissue". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.242.96.200 (talk • contribs) 00:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry you feel that way, but do not change the image again. Amazon.com (specific link) shows that particular cover for the first press, and Evanescence.com (specific link) shows that image as Fallen's cover. Besides these things, I don't know what to tell you, other than wait for some kind of consensus before doing anything further. The first image seems to be the "official" image used by the band and by online retailers. -- Huntster T • @ • C 07:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yes that's because it is the "promotion image" not the image of the actual cover. There is also a promotional image for Anywhere But Home but the differences are far less noticable (bigger title, cropped photo). As i understand it wikipedia is about giving the facts about the album not promoting it. Hence i think we should use the correct cover. ps. on that amazon link one of the uploaded pictures was an original copy of fallen (indicated by the promo sticker on it) and it has what you call the "reissue" artwork.

Ergo Proxy - Rel Mayer Resemblance[edit]

It might be worth mentioning that the design on the front cover of the Fallen album looks very similar to the character Rel Mayer in the Ergo Proxy anime. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.238.211.166 (talk) 03:10, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there is a mention somewhere that Rel inspired the look of this album cover, this would be little more than simple POV trivia (though I agree that the similarity is striking). If such a source could be found, then we should absolutely add this info, as it lends to a more well-rounded article. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 04:51, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Genre[edit]

You put nu metal because Allmusic says it but Allmusic also says that Anywhere but Home is alterinative metal...How Fallen can be nu metal while Anywhere but Home is alt metal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by MegaUse (talk • contribs) 12:12, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

could i add Goth Rock??? i mean in the same review it says that its nu metal, it also says its goth rock, soooooooooo can i?? and can i do the same on the open door? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.139.117.90 (talk) 00:17, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The "goth rock" portion of the review only describes influences, but not Evanescence itself. ~ [ Scott M. Howard ] ~ [ Talk ]:[ Contribs ] ~ 00:26, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal[edit]

I am proposing that "Tourniquet" be merged into Fallen. My rationale for this is because it fails WP:NSONGS; it didn't charted and it hasn't got enough verifiable material. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.29.83.253 (talk) 19:48, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to have to say I favor this proposal. The song is a stub and doesn't seem to have any likelihood of growing into anything beyond that. With that said, I do like the part it mentions about use of R+J. I remember watching that movie after being obsessed with Ev and hearing Claire Danes yell "I long to die!" while holding the gun and fireworks went off inside my brain "THAT'S FROM EVANESCENCE!!" (also the intro music used in the movie and from the extended intro to "Whisper" on the Not for Your Ears CD) =D ...I should watch that movie again. It was fun.
Oh, right. On topic support. lol ~ [ Scott M. Howard ] ~ [ Talk ]:[ Contribs ] ~ 00:44, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Album chart possitions[edit]

it reached 18 on the hard rock albums(http://www.billboard.com/#/artist/evanescence/chart-history/510526?f=795&g=Albums) and 1 on the catalog albums( http://www.billboard.com/#/artist/evanescence/chart-history/510526?f=332&g=Albums) im not good at editing on the charts section, and i dont wana ruin anything, so if anyone could add it, id be reeally grateful 24.139.117.90 (talk) 01:26, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Switched the unsourced Internet chart with the Hard Rock Albums chart; did not add the Catalog Albums chart, as that is redundant to the Billboard 200 chart (an album has to have charted on the 200 before it can enter the Catalog). — Huntster (t @ c) 02:15, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rock chart[edit]

Sorry, I forgot to explain why I removed the Rock chart in the UK. Fallen charts every year on the UK Rock Chart and in the UK Singles Chart. We shouldn't mention every year it chart but only the peak position which is in the Peak positions section. Maybe it should be mentioned in the prose but I'm 100 percent sure it shouldn't be below the Peak positions section. My love is love (talk) 14:34, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, I explained in a bad way above. The IP added the source as a year-end chart, and the source isn't about year-end charts. It's January 7, 2012. Sorry again. My love is love (talk) 14:38, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A new review[edit]

My love is love (talk) 18:04, 18 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Of course I find this here after flipping through page after page of Google to find this one... dannymusiceditor Speak up! 15:57, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Perfectly timed, I love this thing... dannymusiceditor Speak up! 15:29, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Fallen (Evanescence album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jclemens (talk · contribs) 22:38, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Rate Attribute Review Comment
1. Well-written:
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. A couple issues noted, good overall.
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. Fine.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. Well cited.
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). Looks good to me.
2c. it contains no original research. None noted.
2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. Earwig's tool finds properly attributed quotes, and things that look derived from our article; nothing problematic seen.
3. Broad in its coverage:
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. Appropriate scope for an album.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). Fine.
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. Fine.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. No edit warring seen.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. Everything looks to be in order.
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. Appropriate.
7. Overall assessment. What few issues there were have been substantively addressed. Good job!

First Read Through[edit]

Lead
  • "Writing songs for Fallen started eight years prior; several of the songs that would feature on the album appeared on the band's earlier releases." Eight years prior to the release (1995, year the band formed) or eight years prior to signing with Wind Up (1993?). I suspect the former, please clarify.
  • "The album was certified seven times platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America and was certified abroad." Certified abroad is light on details, consider expanding that.
This was a copyeditor's decision. I'm willing to change it still, just asking for confirmation. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 01:30, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Song Information
  • "Lee realized that she was not, when she was "woken up"; the lyrics "wake me up inside".[12]" What does that mean?
Commercial performance
  • "and it has sold more than 7.6 million copies in the United States." Should that be 'as of (date)'?

Overall, everything appears reasonably well written and very well cited. Just a couple of issues to fix or clarify... Jclemens (talk) 23:17, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

All other concerns  Done. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 01:30, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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