Talk:Leonid Brezhnev

Proposed new infobox image

Extended content
Brezhnev in 1972

I propose replacing the current infobox image with this higher quality portrait. Thoughts? Excommunicato (talk) 00:20, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Plagiarism of the Robert Service source

Many sections of the article which cite the Robert Service book A History of Modern Russia don't glean information from that book so much as they copy it outright, word for word. This is problematic because the Service source was published under a WP:COPYRIGHT.

I understand that the entire text from the Service source is available online. This might account for the large use of that source here in the article. However, the text being available online does not mean that Service's book is in the public domain and can be used here w/o proper WP:PARAPHRASING.

I've listed the problematic sections of text in the table below, showing what the text from the article says compared to the text from the Service source. I'd very much like to hear feedback from local editors about these sections.

If there are no dissenting opinions or discussion, it's my intention to remove these 17 sections of text from the Brezhnev Wikipedia article after 14 days. Spintendo  09:03, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

This needs more discussion. The Wikipedia plagiarism rule is "Do not make the work of others look like your own. Give credit where it is due." from Wikipedia:Plagiarism. Every statement is footnoted to the Service book. Every sentence was rephrased so that the phrasing is (somewhat) new and not "word for word". What is involved is a chronological listing of very well known facts included in many different books on USSR. Facts are not copyrightable--and Spintendo shows (notes c-d-e-f) that Service got the facts from other sources. He did not discover any himself. The solution may be to insert several times "According to Service" or "Service uses Russian scholarship to argue that" --thus making sure that Service gets the credit. The goal here is to follow this Wikipedia INTEXT guideline: " You can avoid inadvertent plagiarism by remembering these rules of thumb: INCITE: Cite a source in the form of an inline citation after the sentence or paragraph in question. INTEXT: Add in-text attribution when you copy or closely paraphrase another author's words or flow of thought, unless the material lacks creativity or originates from a free source. INTEGRITY: Maintain text–source integrity: place your inline citations so that it is clear which source supports which point, or use citation bundling and explain in the footnote." from Wikipedia:Plagiarism Rjensen (talk) 22:01, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback, it's much appreciated. I found two instances in the article where Service is given intext attribution, and both of those examples I excluded from the table below. Everything else shown are non-intext-attributions.

It's unfortunate that so much of the content was placed in the article with hardly any paraphrasing, because I agree with you that it appears to be valuable information, for the most part.

Intext attribution is a perfect solution, but there is a hefty amount of information here. That would be seventeen sections of text below, minus the five we can attribute to other authors (shown in notes c,d,e,f) plus two in-text attributions to Service already in the article (17 - 5) + 2 = 14.

Fourteen instances of "According to Service...", "According to Service....", "According to Service....." is not a good look for the article, so maybe we should practice an economy of Service, so to speak, by choosing the most important info while trimming the excess? What do you think? Thanks!  Spintendo  23:34, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

According to Wiki Guidelines According to Wiki Guidelines According to Wiki Guidelines According to Wiki Guidelines --youre right about repetition. The solution is to use the paragraph as the basic unit, with "According to Service..." to start off and at the end of the para have a footnote saying "info in this paragraph is closely paraphrased from Service page xxx." That seems to me to meet the spirit of INTEXT. Rjensen (talk) 23:57, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Perfect! How many paragraphs could we do this for? As a guide, roughly every section below is about a paragraph in length. There were two instances where I split the paragraph for the table's sake, leaving us with about 10 paragraphs, which seems excessive.  Spintendo  00:24, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Well there are two issues: 1) rhetorical style (excessive repetition of "according to...") and 2) Wikipedia rules or guidelines. In this case the second factor seems compelling to me. Rjensen (talk) 04:38, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Then we're in agreement here. Those sections which use WP:CLOP without WP:INTEXT are problematic, compelling editor intervention in order to follow WP rules and guidelines. In the absence of any specific suggestions, I'll make changes to the Service text so that whatever sections remain follow the intext guidelines.  Spintendo  06:45, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Examples

The text as it now reads in the Brezhnev Wikipedia article	The text as it's written in the Source material	Proposed action
"After returning from Scandinavia and Czechoslovakia in October 1964, Khrushchev, unaware of the plot, went on holiday in Pitsunda resort on the Black Sea. Upon his return, his Presidium officers congratulated him for his work in office. Vladimir Semichastny, head of the KGB, was a crucial part of the conspiracy, as it was his duty to inform Khrushchev if anyone was plotting against his leadership. Nikolay Ignatov, whom Khrushchev had sacked, discreetly requested the opinion of several Central Committee members."	"Khrushchev returned from trips to Scandinavia and Czechoslovakia in summer. Sensing nothing afoot, he took a break in Pitsunda by the Black Sea in October. His Presidium colleagues had recently congratulated him at his birthday celebrations and wished him well in political office. KGB chief Semichastny's betrayal was crucial since it was properly his duty to inform Khrushchev of any such conspiracy. The plotters had also used former Central Committee secretary Ignatov, who had been sacked by Khrushchev, to take discreet soundings among CC members."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"After some false starts, fellow conspirator Mikhail Suslov phoned Khrushchev on 12 October and requested that he return to Moscow to discuss the state of Soviet agriculture. Finally, Khrushchev understood what was happening, and said to Mikoyan, "If it's me who is the question, I will not make a fight of it."	"After several false starts, Suslov made a phone call to Khrushchev on 12 October 1964 and requested that he fly to Moscow for an unscheduled Presidium discussion of agriculture. At last Khrushchev guessed what was in store, for he said to Mikoyan: "If it's me who is the question, I won't make a fight of it."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"While a minority headed by Mikoyan wanted to remove Khrushchev from the office of First Secretary but retain him as the Chairman of the Council of Ministers, the majority, headed by Brezhnev, wanted to remove him from active politics altogether."	"Initially Mikoyan worked for a compromise whereby Khrushchev would lose the First Secretaryship but remain Chairman of the Council of Ministers. But the rest of the Presidium wanted Khrushchev completely retired."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
”Some members of the Central Committee wanted him to undergo punishment of some kind, but Brezhnev, who had already been assured the office of the General Secretary, saw little reason to punish Khrushchev further.”	”Emotions in the audience were highly charged and several CC members shouted out that Khrushchev should undergo punishment of some sorts. But Brezhnev was already assured of victory, and ignored such demands.”	Borderline Structure is essentially identical to the source text
”In early 1965, Shelepin began calling for the restoration of "obedience and order" within the Soviet Union as part of his own bid to seize power.”	"Shelepin, who was made Presidium member after helping to organize Khrushchev’s dismissal, made a bid for the supreme leadership in February 1965 by calling for a restoration of obedience and order."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"Brezhnev's stabilization policy included ending the liberalizing reforms of Khrushchev, and clamping down on cultural freedom."	"Brezhnev’s stabilization of politics and administration after the upsets of Khrushchev also led him to clamp down on cultural freedom."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"Between 1960 and 1970, Soviet agriculture output increased by 3% annually. Industry also improved: during the Eighth Five-Year Plan (1966–1970), the output of factories and mines increased by 138% compared to 1960."	"Between 1960 and 1970 the Soviet agricultural output increased at an annual average of three per cent. Industry, too, enhanced its performance. At the end of the Eighth Five-Year Plan period of 1966-70 the output of factories and mines was 138 per cent greater than in 1960."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"While the Politburo became aggressively anti-reformist, Kosygin was able to convince both Brezhnev and the politburo to leave the reformist communist leader János Kádár of the Hungarian People's Republic alone because of an economic reform entitled New Economic Mechanism (NEM), which granted limited permission for the establishment of retail markets."	"Hungarian party leader Janos Kadar had introduced measures similar to those advocated by Kosygin in the USSR." "By 1968 a New Economic Mechanism which included limited permission for the creation of retail markets had been introduced."	Misleading See notes below
"The Ninth Five-Year Plan delivered a change: for the first time industrial consumer products out-produced industrial capital goods. Consumer goods such as watches, furniture and radios were produced in abundance. The plan still left the bulk of the state's investment in industrial capital-goods production. By 1975 consumer goods were expanding 9% slower than industrial capital-goods."	"The Ninth Five-Year Plan was the first to project a slightly higher rate of increase in the output of industrial consumer products than of industrial capital goods. Watches, furniture and radios were at last meant to be manufactured to abundance. Yet the Plan still left the predominant bulk of investment at the disposal of capital-goods production. By 1975, for example, consumer goods had expanded at a rate nine per cent slower than capital goods."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"By the early 1970s, the Soviet Union had the world's second largest industrial capacity, and produced more steel, oil, pig-iron, cement and tractors than any other country."	"The USSR had nearly reached military parity with the United States and the Soviet economy had the world's second greatest industrial capacity and already produced more steel, oil, pig-iron, cement, and even tractors than any other country."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"Khrushchev's policy of amalgamating farms was continued by Brezhnev, because he shared Khrushchev's belief that bigger kolkhozes would increase productivity. Brezhnev pushed for an increase in state investments in farming, which mounted to an all-time high in the 1970s of 27% of all state investment – this figure did not include investments in farm equipment. In 1981 alone, 33 billion U.S. dollars (by contemporary exchange rate) was invested into agriculture. "	"The policy of amalgamating farms was prolonged by Brezhnev, who shared with Khrushchev a belief that bigger kolkhozes would increase productivity. At the same time Brezhnev insisted that agriculture should have a massive increase in the governments financial support. Collective farms in the 1970s received twenty-seven per cent of all state investment - and even this figure did not include the revenues being channeled into the production of tractors, chemical fertilizers and other farm equipment. In 1981 the budgetary allocation constituted the 'highest food and agriculture subsidy known in human history', amounting to 33,000 million dollars at the contemporary official exchange rate."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"In the Soviet Union the criterion for assessing agricultural output was the grain harvest. The import of cereal, which began under Khrushchev, had in fact become a normal phenomenon by Soviet standards. When Brezhnev had difficulties sealing commercial trade agreements with the United States, he went elsewhere, such as to Argentina. Trade was necessary because the Soviet Union's domestic production of fodder crops was severely deficient."	"The usual criterion for assessing the effectiveness of Soviet agriculture had been and still was the grain harvest. In fact the imports of cereals which had been started by Khrushchev had become a regular phenomenon. When it became difficult to seal commercial deals with the USA in 1974, the USSR's foreign trade officials began to make hole-in-the-corner purchases in Argentina and elsewhere. This was necessary because Soviet domestic production was severely deficient in fodder crops."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"Brezhnev's way of resolving these issues was to increase state investment. Politburo member Gennady Voronov advocated for the division of each farm's work-force into what he called "links". These "links" would be entrusted with specific functions, such as to run a farm's dairy unit. His argument was that the larger the work force, the less responsible they felt. This program had been proposed to Joseph Stalin by Andrey Andreyev in the 1940s, and had been opposed by Khrushchev before and after Stalin's death. Voronov was also unsuccessful; Brezhnev turned him down, and in 1973 he was removed from the Politburo."	"Brezhnev’s attempted solution was to increase state investment. For years, Voronov had advocated the division of each farm work force into "links" or teams which would be invested with specific functions. A link might, for instance, run a farm's dairy unit. Voronov's argument was that work forces were so vast, that individual kolkhozniki felt little sense of responsibility for the work on the farm. Accordingly, the link system, accompanied by suitable material incentives, would introduce conscientiousness and lead to an expansion of output. This proposal had been put to Stalin unsuccessfully by A.A. Andreyev in the 1940s and had been opposed by Khrushchev both before and after Stalin's death. Voronov was equally ineffective in trying to convince Brezhnev about the need for such a reform. Indeed, Brezhnev removed Voronov from the Politburo in April 1973."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"Brezhnev's answer to these problems was to issue two decrees, one in 1977 and one in 1981, which called for an increase in the maximum size of privately owned plots within the Soviet Union to half a hectare. These measures removed important obstacles for the expansion of agricultural output, but did not solve the problem. Under Brezhnev, private plots yielded 30% of the national agricultural production when they only cultivated 4% of the land. This was seen by some as proof that de-collectivization was necessary to prevent Soviet agriculture from collapsing, but leading Soviet politicians shrank from supporting such drastic measures due to ideological and political interests."	"Brezhnev was not so misguided, but instead, in 1977 and 1981, issued two decrees to expand the maximum size of each plot to half a hectare. These measures removed a large obstacle to the expansion of agricultural output under Brezhnev. The private plots yielded 30% of total production while constituting only 4% of the USSR's cultivated area. Both ideological tradition and political interests impeded Politburo members from recognizing this as proof that de-collectivization was essential to an expansion of agricultural production."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"The underlying problems were the growing shortage of skilled workers, a wrecked rural culture, the payment of workers in proportion to the quantity rather than the quality of their work, and too large farm machinery for the small collective farms and the roadless countryside."	"The underlying problems therefore lay unresolved: the shortage of skilled labor, the wrecked rural culture, the payment of farm workers by quantity of work without regard to its quality, the roadless countryside, the central imposition of quotas for planting harvesting and procurement, the technology and machinery too large for their functions on Soviet farms, the memory of the horrors of collectivization from the late 1920s."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"While some areas improved during the Brezhnev era, the majority of civilian services deteriorated and living conditions for Soviet citizens fell rapidly. Diseases were on the rise because of the decaying healthcare system. The living space remained rather small by First World standards, with the average Soviet person living on 13.4 square metres. Thousands of Moscow inhabitants became homeless, most of them living in shacks, doorways and parked trams. Nutrition ceased to improve in the late 1970s, while rationing of staple food products returned to Sverdlovsk for instance."	"The deterioration of the physical environment continued. Diseases were on the increase and hospital services worsened. The living space accorded to the normal urban family remained cramped, just 13.4 m² per person in 1980. Thousands of Moscow inhabitants had no resident permits and many of them inhabited shacks, doorways, and parked trams. Rationing of staple food products returned to Sverdlovsk and several other large cities."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed
"The choice of the successor would have been influenced by Suslov, but he died at the age of 79 in January 1982. Andropov took Suslov's seat in the Central Committee Secretariat; by May, it became obvious that Andropov would make a bid for the office of the General Secretary. He, with the help of fellow KGB associates, started circulating rumors that political corruption had become worse during Brezhnev's tenure as leader, in an attempt to create an environment hostile to Brezhnev in the Politburo. Andropov's actions showed that he was not afraid of Brezhnev's wrath."	"The choice would have been influenced by Suslov, who was a senior CC Secretary. But Suslov died aged seventy-nine in January 1982. KGB chairman Andropov was given Suslov's place in the CC Secretariat in May, and quickly it became obvious that he would make a strong bid to succeed Brezhnev. Stories about corrupt practices in Brezhnev's family and entourage started to circulate. The stories came from Andropov's associates in the KGB. Evidently Andropov was trying to create a mood in the Politburo that would ruin the chances of one of Brezhnev's boon companions emerging as a serious rival to his own candidature. By his actions Andropov showed that he no longer feared incurring Brezhnev's hostility."	NPlagiarized Text should be removed

Notes

References

Personality traits and family

For instance, when Moscow City Party Secretary Nikolay Yegorychev refused to sing his praises, he was shunned, forced out of local politics and given only an obscure ambassadorship. - "sing bis praises" is surely meant metaphorically, but what does it actually refer to? When and how did Yegorychev not hail Brezhnev in the way he wanted him to? Does this refer to a single event or to a general stance Yegorychev took on the cult of personality? And which ambassadorship was he given? Even the most "obscure" countries have a name. 194.29.99.50 (talk) 07:41, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

This is a problematic passage. It's not very encyclopedic. I think it probably should be removed.--Jack Upland (talk) 21:29, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Shouldn't his profession be listed as politician?

It seems very odd to have a politicians profession listed as engineer. 2A02:C7C:9B36:7D00:7054:6577:3AB3:76 (talk) 06:19, 24 January 2024 (UTC)