User talk:Tannin/050220

Tannin - what's going on? Why have you blanked your talk and user page? I hope you're not leaving us. →Raul654 16:21, May 1, 2004 (UTC)

Ok, I guess this would explain it... Grauw 21:18, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

That was almost a month ago - I doubt it's relavant anymore. It's probably something else. →Raul654 14:28, May 2, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your eloquent final message. Just one thought: why not work on pictures only, as I have done since January 2003? I've never had an edit war or any serious trouble with any contributor. Life is peaceful in the world of pics! I know you don't accept the auto thumbnail quality so maybe pics are not of interest either. Very best wishes, Adrian

Adrian Pingstone 14:35, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

Hi Tannin... I'm sorry to see you leave us. :( Perhaps you'll look in on us again in the future. I hope you have fun in whatever new projects you find yourself sucked into, it's been nice working with you. fabiform | talk 15:49, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

I want to echo what Fabiform said -- and to thank you for all of your work -- including your farewell message. I hope that we'll eventually be able to invite you back to a Wikipedia where people who do want to work together can do so without constant conflict. Be well and best of luck in all your endeavours. -- BCorr|Брайен 17:15, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

Another one bites the dust. :( Maybe someday we'll start banning trolls instead of letting them run off people who actually contribute something useful. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 18:54, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

I'm so sorry to see you go. Angela. 19:15, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

I'm also sorry to see you leave, and I hope any disputes we may have had over the whole Papua thing didn't contribute to your decision. Hopefully, you'll come back some time. john 19:19, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

That's depressing. The sensible/lunatic ratio drops still further. Could a sysop please protect Tannin's user page, though. What he said was worth saying. Thanks. -- Derek Ross

This is very sad. Thank you for all your efforts. And thanks for your important message on your user page. Hopefully you can be welcomed back some day in a troll-free Wikipedia. -- Baldhur 21:09, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.

Tannin, I hope you reconsider this. It's no coincidence that many of your articles got featured - you're on of the most knowledgeable contributors we have around here. Regardless of where the future takes you, you have built a legacy here which I am sure will stand the test of time. They will be distributed to people across this planet.

Perhaps you just need a wiki vacation? Enjoy the outside world for a while, the weather's great, at least here in Berlin.

Wik is currently in arbitration again and the people in the AC are smart enough to realize that he can't go on like this, they're just very slow. RK is only editing sporadically and he's walking on very thin ice. In my experience, the wiki always wins out in the long run. Our principles are good, it's just the enforcement that is lacking. Everyone knows that, and we are constantly evolving. Don't give up on us yet, please.

Even if you do, there's one thing you could do for us: Could you add a list of the most problematic articles that you've worked on to your user page, i.e. those which were subject to the most intense controversies? That would make it easier for others to keep an eye on them.

Best wishes, --Eloquence*

don't go

Please do not leave, the more good contributors that go the worse the situation gets. If you think its bad now wait till you and others like you go. You should not let your contributions be undermined by the trolls and vandals who frequent here, because after you go, they remain. Eitherway good luck. GrazingshipIV 02:56, May 5, 2004 (UTC)

I've always enjoyed your work here, and am very sorry to see you go, Tannin. I hope things will improve enough in the future that you'll feel able to come back - I think it'll get better, but then I'm a hopeless optimist. Good luck in whatever else you're doing. All the best--Camembert

I can only echo what everyone else is saying. I am very sorry to see you go and hope you will reconsider, or, at least, come back after a while. Hopefully things will be much better then. Best of Luck. Danny 03:00, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

I understand your decision, and the endless unresolved controversies are one reason I dropped off the mailing list, and now write new articles only on bird-related topics. I'm sorry to see you go, you have been a good mate, and i hope you return one day. Jim

Always sad to see a good contributor leave. Hope you reconsider and come back. Dori | Talk 06:00, May 5, 2004 (UTC)

You're right, Tannin. You're absolutely right. Good luck. Cribcage 07:18, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

Please please pleeeeeeeeeeeassssssssse don't go. Come back and fight to get the system changed. We cannot afford to lose good people like you. theresa knott 07:49, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

I've already e-mailed you, so I'll just settle for joining in with all of these other folks here in urging you to return after a wikivacation. Arno 06:28, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

Take a Wikiholiday - but do come back

Hey Tannin - I'm very sorry to see you leave. You have added so much useful content to this project and have been so cooperative that it saddens me greatly to see you leave. Yeah I know that there are a handful of problem users but there are many more who are here to improve the project and work with great people like you. Right now the AC is working on a second case for Wik. I know this seems to be working slowly but we are all trying to find a balance between openness and locking things down - both extremes have their evils. But do take a nice Wikiholiday - go birding or do something else you enjoy. Then re-join us and share your photos and notes. I try to do stuff like that several times a year and it really helps. Either way, please take care and understand that you are very much appreciated around here. --mav 08:27, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

Fuck, why is it that it is so easy to neglect to say thanks to someone til it is too late. Your readiness to research a topic in depth seemed to be second to none. From a selfish perspective, I would be delighted if you would reconsider your decision to leave Wikipedia. Otherwise, thanks for all the great contributions and enjoy your new found free time! Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 14:41, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

As many others have said, your leaving is Wikipedia's loss. Good luck -- Ams80 21:44, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

I am gutted, you were so polite when I'd just arrived and was being silly. Why not pick a group of mates, go together and start a new version? You can copy all the articles here you want but act as editor. It has reached the point where editing is the rare skill. --BozMo 10:24, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

I award a posthumous barn star. Seems inadequate really. --BozMo 06:38, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

A tragedy!! Don't let the bastards get you down mate. Go look at life though your viewfinder for a while and come back to us with some more brilliant photos. Gaz 12:39, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

Oh--* I came here to track down a glorious photo of yours I had seen once, only to find you gone... May blessings go with you, wherever you are... +sj+ 14:54, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

I take a week off and come back to find you gone....a sad re-entry for me. I hope (and trust) you will find meaning and fulfillment in your pursuits, and want to believe those endeavors will lead you back here someday (soon or in the distant future), a day I look forward to. All my best wishes and thanks for your quality and energetic work, Jwrosenzweig 19:11, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

We didn't talk much, and we did have some controversy, but you seemed very principled and honorable. It's sad to see you go.

Sometimes I feel the same way about Wikipedia; a lot of people have huge egos (including myself) and sometimes it makes things explosive. I sometimes wonder if people care too much.

I wish you the best with life outside of Wikipedia. And if you ever do get around to Ambition (as discussed on my user page) let me know how it plays. Feel free to be brutally honest. :)

Regards,

Mike Church 21:33, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

Sorry to see you go. Hope you'll return some day to a better-organized Wikipedia. Isomorphic 03:04, 11 May 2004 (UTC)

Tannin, I know whomof you speak. I'm wasting a bunch of time right now in mediation with one of those tinfoil hat clowns. I will also admit to frustration when yet another poekmon page makes it past a VfD, but if there's even a hint of humor in an article, OHMYGOD! That said, I hope you plan at least to come back and visit once in a while, and perhaps even to contribute again. There are so many here who are worth working with that I can live with the idiots, at least for now. (And the Webby publicity has brought us, for better or worse, a big crop of newbies. Some of them are showing potential already; others will be fodder for Wik et al, who, having someone less able to defend themselves than those of us who have been around a while, may stay out of our faces for awhile. I must also mention that the admins are becoming more responsive to complaints from users like you and me. The mediation dispute I'm presently in is being handled by Angela, and involves this particular meathead and another user he's reduced to total frustration. The defendant has already been cut down a notch, from what Angela has told me, and once I get my chance for input, I'll be discussing banning for acts such as he pulled on me. To make what's becoming a long story short, there is hope here yet - please don't resolve to pack it in permanently.

But I came here for another reason - to thank you for the pic you added to Eureka Stockade. I did an extensive edit of that article to try and get it through to Featuured Article status. It had been nominated once before, but was not quite ready. Fingers crossed. I do have a request. Though Wiki's policy is "edit boldly", I have a personal issue with photos. I've edited pix in the past, but where I can, I like to clear it with the photographer first. What I would like to do with the image you contributed is to straighten the horizon line and bring up the color saturation just a bit. Any objections? You can check my image file (User:Dwindrim/images) and also Images of Mumbai, which is a complete photo edit, to help you decide if you trust me with your image.

Don't be gone long now, y'hear? Denni 18:48, 2004 May 11 (UTC)

Well. If you had been checking the messages here, you might have thought the come-back calls were over. Not quite. I'm one of those infrequent visitors of wikipedia and its mailing lists. But even an obscure user like me recognizes and respects your works. Hope your mind will change some day.

Caps or not, again, and again...

Hey... can you stop in at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life... we're going around and around about capitalizing again..... Or email me. - UtherSRG 18:59, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

---

Reading the comments above, I feel very humbled. I was almost persuaded to stay by two or three of them. Thankyou all. Thankyou especially to ... no. I won't mention any individuals. All of you.

Glancing over recent changes, I see that Wik has finally been banned. Well, on its own that's hardly convincing evidence that the AC is finally starting to pull its weight and turn this madhouse back into a working encyclopedia, but it is a positive step. I'll do a few little edits over the next day or two and see if the place has improved. I don't know if I'll stay or not.

Best wishes to all, and especially to those of you who left messages above.

Tannin 11:08, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Does this mean your back? I sure hope so. You are much needed around here. Danny 11:43, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure, Danny. I'm back tonight. Probably tommorow too. After that .... I guess it depends of if the Wikipedia experience seems positive or not. I almost logged on as an anon so that I could just slip in without fuss, edit a few articles, and slip out again, but I didn't feel comfortable with doing that. Tannin

The AC is not a police force. If our ruling is subverted, then it is up to the Admins to enforce it. With that said, I'm very glad to see you back - at least temporarily. --mav 03:52, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Welcome back!

I totally concur with Danny's comments. Welcome back and please stay! 172 12:03, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Good to see your name active again, welcome back! -- sannse (talk) 17:16, 25 May 2004 (UTC) (with hopes that it is a permanent return)

Good to see you 'round the wiki again. Do what you can when you can! It's very much appreciated -- as is your presence. Peace, BCorr|Брайен 18:05, May 25, 2004 (UTC)

Hear, hear. Please stick around. seglea 20:00, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Oh! You're back! After reading your user page a while back, I was so surprised to see your username pop up. I'm glad you came back. You do good work. Elf | Talk 05:20, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Welcome back Jim

Me too, I really hope you decide to stay. theresa knott 07:49, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Ditto to all the above messages. It's great to see you back. I hope your return is not too temporary. Angela.

John Howard

Tannin, re your edit to John Howard. The tax cuts in the budget take effect at $52,000, which is approximately average male weekly earnings. It is true that only 20% earn more than this, but I don't think it is true to say that the tax cuts are only for the wealthy. I don't think a family with kids and an income of $52,000 could be called wealthy. Adam 01:04, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Noah's Ark

I note you were another reverter in the Yeti controversy in Jan.; i solicit your attention to the recent edits w/ an IP changing "illegible" and (my own version) "undecipherable" to "clear" on Noah's Ark. Thanks for your attention. --Jerzy(t) 03:17, 2004 May 27 (UTC)

A nice easy one for you

Welcome back! Thought you might like a nice easy uncontroversial science-and-nature article to look at whilst we try to restore your faith in the project so you'll stay longer. As such please feel very free to comment on, copyedit, etc etc, whale song, which I've made a start at today. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 17:05, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Sorry all. Though it seems to be sprightly right now (on a day when I don't have time) the 'pedia was hopelessly slow last night and I couldn't contribute anything. I was getting >5 minute page load times for a stretch of maybe 8 hours. Even reading wasn't possible, never mind writing. I gave up. Tannin 00:35, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

Welcome back and nice to meet you. Wikipedia is changing now drastically we will go better after a few days. Today I have a question to you. You posted a lot of nice pics of animals. I would like to upload them to the Japanese Wikipedia, but after assurance you released them clearly under GFDL. Your reply to my notepage will be appliciated. Cheers. KIZU 13:48, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

In need of community support

I'm in need of community support.

Right now, I am on the verge of being driven away from Wikipedia through the relentless efforts of a single problem user on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/172, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration, and Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/172 vs VeryVerily.

The same user who refuses to accept the results of the Augusto Pinochet poll (see also [1]) goes through my user history every time he logs on and then starts reverting things that I've written arbitrary. He manages to divert attention away from the articles onto ad hominem attacks, thus poisoning the well against me. [2]

He has been doing nothing else for the past couple of months, other than making some minor changes to pages that he finds through the random page feature. Meanwhile, I've been working on articles such as Empire of Brazil, Dollar Diplomacy, and Franco-U.S. relations. I'm tired of letting a problem user define my contributions to the encyclopedia, as opposed to my work.

I may have said some regrettable things in the past, but my editing practices are scholarly and methodical. When I make an edit, my choice is based on a consideration of the quality of the encyclopedia. Unlike the user who avowedly admits to trying to escalate a personal feud (see, e.g., [3]), I do not decide which pages to edit and what changes to make on the basis of personality feuds, emotional POV whims, or a desire to get attention.

Although this user shows little evidence that he understands the content of the articles, I have shown considerable restraint, given my professional expertise. [4]. Only through community support (i.e. lobbying the arbitration committee)will this user be stopped. Otherwise, Wikipedia will die unless we stop vandals and clueless POV-pushers from running rampant and driving away valued contributors.

Please feel free to direct questions and comments to my talk page or e-mail at sokolov47@yahoo.com.

Sincerely,

172 01:50, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

ToL and Categories

Please weigh in: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tree_of_Life#MW_1.3_categories

Wikipedia:Naming conventions

I'm just curious how you determined that the April 16 changes I reverted at Wikipedia:Naming conventions are "right", since they are in direct conflict with the pages I linked to. As far as I can tell, the only agreed policy is at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (fauna) and even this is strictly for animals. (I'll put this on watch, so you can reply below). Mackerm 00:11, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)??

License

Hi, I'm from the french wikipedia and would like to know the license of the picture : Image:Mitsubishi-zero-replica-s.jpg as we use it on french wikipedia. Thanks in advance. fr:Utilisteur:Tipiac

Dashes

No I don't still have the code, but it was only two lines:

$text = str_replace( "---", "—", $text );
$text = str_replace( "--", "–", $text );

Inserted somewhere around the top of what is now Parser::internalParse(), IIRC. The biggest problem was that it broke links to titles containing "--". I guess one possibility would be to move the replacement to the end of the parse, where the text is pure HTML, and then to only replace hyphens which are not inside HTML tags. -- Tim Starling 01:10, Jun 28, 2004 (UTC)

Diprotodontia thumbnails

Hi, I see at Diprotodontia that you have reverted the thumbnails to the prior state. Now the heading lines run straight through the captions, at least on my (wide) screen. What exactly was wrong with the thumbnails? --Magnus Manske 12:05, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC)

Well, I guess we're on different sides of the thumbnail issue then (though I hope neither of is going to start an edit war about them;-). I agree that (automatic) thumbnails are sometimes (meaning: on rare occasions) significantly worse than manually generated ones. But:

• Thumbnails give the whole project a more unified look
• Thumbnails are usually *not* that bad. Exceptions are usually drawings (most PNG images). But, most thumbnails are smaller than the small images that were uploaded manually, which might explain the bad impression *on direct comparison*.
• Thumbnails are only there to give a brief impression. Those who are interested in the image can click on it and get a much better (larger) one.
• Thumbnails are generated automatically. That will become important
  • when the rendering software improves, so we can batch-thumbnail all thumbnailed images again, improving quality all over the site
  • when we decide the caption font needs to be improved
  • when generating a CD/DVD-version. Access to these media is fast, so thumbnails do *not* need to be generated for offline use; they can be shown just by adding parameters to the img tag
  • when generating a print version. When generating the hi-res printer data, the full-size image can be used as a data source. Manual thumbnails will be printed in their low resolution.
  • when adding an image or changing an image to a new version. No manual generation/upload of thumbnails is needed = less work
  • when trying to manage our image collection (50% less images to wade through!)

Also, as mentioned, the div style doesn't really work with the headings of the MonoBook skin; the heading lines go right through the caption. Alas, that's a technicality... --Magnus Manske 13:18, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC)

I think I now see the point here. It is that I don't see, and you see too well. I looked at the page you linked in your PS, and had a look at the bird pictures. I noticed that they differed a little in size, but not much else. After staring at them for a minute or so, I think I made out some fuzzyness at the plats in the background, but otherwise they seem more or less identical to me.

Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think I'm alone there. I think most people coming to wikipedia will see a thumbnail, think "oh, an image, and it has pretty colors" ;-) and probably try to click on it (and get the great original). They will not think "oh, the image is fuzzy at this detail, and the contrast is poor, and it was obviously resized by some not-even-factor". IMHO your professional photographer eye might be a little too critical here.

Also, I think it *is* possible to automatically improve thumbnails, compared to the current ones:

• Make a difference between jpg/jpeg and gif/png files (photo/drawing)
• Run a little auto-sharpen/auto-contrast
• Treat color/grey images differently (not sure how yet)

There could also be this rule: If for an image (e.g., 640x480) the wanted image size (e.g., width=200) is close to an "exact even number" (33.3%, or 213px), the thumbnail will be generated with the latter size. Threshold could be 10%, which would nicely fit the example.

One of my points is, we can do this for *all* thumbnailed images, when we find a way to improve thumbnails. Remember, this is the first version of the thumbnail function. As you probably saw in my first long answer, I try to plan ahead here. Sure, a carefully manually generated thumbnail is of better quality that a "mass rendering". But IMHO, for most people (I'm talking blind thugs like me here;-) visiting wikipedia, the difference is not great or even noticable, and the technical (yes, here's my perspective:-) advantages outweigh the problems.

The format of the caption, or if we should have a border around thumbnails, is an entirely different matter. I don't have much of a preference there. --Magnus Manske 15:22, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC)

I agree that, subconciously, people will notice the lesser quality of automatic thumbnails. So, I have a (technical) suggestion that should leave both you and me (and everyone else concerned with the "thumbnails problem", AFAIK) happy! Here goes:

• [[image:bla.jpg|thumb|some text]] generates a normal, fuzzy thumbnail :-)
• [[image:bla.jpg|thumb=bla_small.jpg|some text]] uses "bla_small.jpg" as the thumbnail

This associates the manually created thumbnail with the larger image in a machine-readable fashion. It should only be used if

• the manual thumbnail is of significant better quality than the automatic one ("significant" being up to you:-)
• or the manual thumbnail shows an alternate view (e.g., only a part) of the larger image

It will have the "unified look" I enjoy so much, the simple syntax of thumbnailed images, the automatic rendering on different media (high-quality instead of thumbnails in printouts etc.), and the ability to use manually optimized thumbnails.

I would like to suggest this on wikipedia-l, or you can suggest it. Implementing could be done in no time (as soon as I get a Linux up and runnig again...). --Magnus Manske 21:24, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC) (past 11pm local time, also beyond any sensible hour;-)

Windows XP

"let's stay somewhere near the real world, shall we? Removing cruical stuff just doesn't cut it, especially when it is so easy to verify for yourself" Excuse me? The original statement wasn't backed up with any facts. Also, I have quite a few friends who think that the new XP interface is actually an improvement on the old interface. Regrettably, your "facts" are matters of opinion.

So don't tell me to stay somewhere in the real world. I live in it every day supporting the damn thing. I don't like the interface, but I also know others who love it and actually have become very productive using it. Though I think the new sentence is an improvement, it's still someone's point of view.

-- Ta bu shi da yu 13:33, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Tannin, I've given the XP page another shot after talking to Ambivalenthysteria. Can you tell us if it's OK to remove the tags now? Thanks - Ta bu shi da yu 15:50, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

List of New Zealand birds

Thanks for improving this - I rather feel that I've dumped this on you, having flagged it up and then pleaded incompetence to do it myself!. Jim

Kia ora! I've taken a bit of an interest in the above subject since someone very kindly added what may be some of the English version to the Maori version [nearly said "equivalent" there - would not be a fair comparison!]. I noticed lots of Tannin contributions and was pleased to see that the Tannin holiday wasn't too, too long! However, the article still has the "please improve" indication at the top. Still justified. Headings would improve the first part, and as I'm a braver heading-creator than many WPns I thought I might have a go. But there's no obvious guide to tree-of-life LISTS (as distinct from discursive articles). Any pointers? Robin Patterson 06:11, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mount Buffalo shot...

Are you familiar with this painting by Arthur Streeton at the Castlemaine art gallery? It's very like your photograph of The Australian Alps. Great minds think alike :)--Robert Merkel 05:30, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Windows XP again

If you get a chance, would you be able to point out some of your NPOV gripes with the article as it stands? If you can point me in the right direction, I'll have a shot at fixing it up. Ambivalenthysteria 06:59, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Windows XP mediation request update

Hello Tannin. In my "official capacity" I've removed the request by User:Ta bu shi da yu from Wikipedia:Requests for mediation and the issue has been listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, because according to Wikipedia:Dispute resolution, this should be done before mediation is attempted, and I do think that involving more people in the discussion will help move the issue forward.

Thanks, BCorr|Брайен, Co-chair of the Mediation Committee 13:20, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Pictures

Hi Tannin. I have added my gallery to the list of photographers. I understand, that you on the english Wikipedia are strict about stating the license under the contributed pictures. I think that is a very good idea and would like to do so on the danish Wikipedia with my own contributions. I se you have contributed photos under the cc-by-nd-nc, I would like to use that license for some of my photos too, but can I add that text to photos I have uploadet a while ago?

[User:Malene] (Help I forgot my password here and I dont get any email when I try to send the password to myself..arrg)

Hi again :-) Thanks for a very fast reply :-) I have exactly the same problem as you describe - I uploaded my photos without realizing they could be "improved" in horrible ugly ways, or resized automatically so they look like fuzzy fog, - things that I had no control over (not that it has happened..yet :-|) The cc-by-nd-nc would suit me fine, so I'll start putting it on my photos like you did on your photos.

I hope my english is understandable - I feel kind of cribbled writing in a foreign language, though it is easy for me to read english it is a very different matter to write it :-) Best -Malene (from danish Wikipedia)

Welcome back

Hi Tannin - happy to see the rumours of your leaving are untrue. Loved your double-barred finch photo. Those pesky things were too small, too fast, and too far away for me. --Zarni02 03:26, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

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Continents

---

Hi ?alabio. If you are interested in continents, given that Australia is mainly concerned with the country, you might like to pay some attention to Australia-New Guinea instead. Just a thought.

Best Tannin 07:33, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I shall consider editing Australia-New Guinea, but I learned a valuable lesson:

People live on modern continents.

For now, I shall stay with ancient continents such as Nena (not to be confused with Nena of 99 Luftballons) needing love and articles. Since these ancient continents no longer exist, I do not have to worry about upsetting the inhabitants.

About your rant, I feel that getting rid anonymous edits would help.

Ŭalabio 23:39, 2004 Jul 19 (UTC)

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Hard disk

1. "have a brain" is really an unnecessary comment in this case. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Hard_disk&diff=0&oldid=4810135
2. If you look closely you'll see that the images have different names, the 's' image is for the thumbnail image, which is obsolete because of the new image markup. There's no need to have -s and -l images anymore, and the standardized image markup is easier to read.

   --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:59, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

My concern was primarily the non-standard image markup, so I have fixed the image markup while keeping the -s image, and I think that this solution will solve both of our concerns. I personally don't care if there are two separate images, but it did seem unnecessary for a stock photo like that. Nevertheless, I will remove the thumbnail from Images for deletion. In the future, I hope that you keep the vitriol out of your comments as much as possible, as it is unnecessarily hostile and rather irritating. No hard feelings, DropDeadGorgias (talk) 22:28, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

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Poll about whether we should keep either Euramerica or Laurussia

---

I accidently duplicated Laurussia in Euramerica. Since you contributed to these articles, I invite you to a pool on my TalkPage about how to remedy this.

Ŭalabio 19:31, 2004 Jul 24 (UTC)

---

Hello again! It's great to see that you've been contributing as actively as you used to over the past few days. Are you going to restore your user page any time soon? You used to post such great photographs on it. 172 06:04, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Citron-crested Cockatoo

I think you should take alook at this... I did a quick cleanup, but I'm sure it needs more work and someone who knows birds should do it. (It's good to see you back!) - UtherSRG 19:16, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hard-drive-allsorts-1990s-s.jpg

Could you give copyright and/or source information for image:Hard-drive-allsorts-1990s-s.jpg, thanks. ed g2s • talk 23:11, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Please ignore me. ed g2s • talk 23:19, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Journal/periodical summaries

Hi Tannin, are there journals you read regularly? You might be interested in this project: m:Wikisummaries. I think I will begin somewhere on en:, perhaps in my user space... +sj+ 23:57, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

race images

thanks for your support. If you care, see [[5]] (if you think I misrepresented anything feel free to correct it) Slrubenstein

Your photos and CCL

Hi Tannin, hope you are well. I just noted that you placed your photos under a Creative Commons Licence. Before you did so, some users in the German Wikipedia copied tons of your images to de:, and BTW I would love to copy more of your pix. However, on de: we have a strict copyright policy not allowing the upload of images under CC-by-nc-nd. (Personally I would wish that we could become more flexible in our copyright policy but it is not me to decide that.) According to our policy we would be obliged to remove your photos (which would be a pity). Now I can hardly ask you to revoke your decision to place photos under that licence. But I would like to ask if you have any idea what to do about it. Would a dual licence (GNU FDL and CC-by-nc-nd) be a solution? And if you don't want to change your decision, would it be possible to have at least some of your images under GNU FDL or a dual licence? Best -- Baldhur 14:04, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

License ?

Hi, could you tell me the license of Image:Sopwith Camel.jpg as we use it on french wp, I wonder. Thanks in advance. Tipiac 01:06, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Kenneth Alan

Kenneth Alan's case is now in arbitration. See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kenneth Alan. You may wish to add comment to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kenneth Alan/Evidence Mintguy (T) 14:22, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Townsville

I've replaced your photo of Townsville (the one taken from Mt. Stuart), as I felt it was too distant to get a feel for the place. Hope you don't mind. I'm planning on rewriting the Townsville article "real soon now", just working through some photos first. --d 09:24, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Pic returned, can't we have both for the moment? - Adrian Pingstone 07:46, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Image tags

Hi Tony. Is Image:Xanthorrhoea australis.jpg released under the GFDL? It's marked as unverified at the moment, but please change that to whichever tag is appropriate if it is your own photo. Thanks. Angela. 23:40, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Athens, Greece and Paris, France

Hi, I noticed your edit changing "Athens, Greece" to "Athens" in 2004 Summer Olympics. I'm not sure that Athens should be left alone like that, given the many other cities named Athens, even if those cities are much less likely to host the Olympics. Actually, I believe some of the '96 events were held in Athens, Georgia, but that's probably not too important. I should also note that both 1900 Summer Olympics and 1924 Summer Olympics actually do use "Paris, France". -- Mike J. 00:51, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

DR-DOS

Hello, I'm interested in why you reverted my changes to the DR-DOS section. Beyond the original DR-DOS article being biased, it was factually inaccurate. I even linked to an article which describes the real basis for the non-fatal error with Windows 3.1 beta and DR-DOS. If you believe that my editting was below par, please at least correct the old information more to your style instead of reverting to factually incorrect information.

Creative Commons and GFDL

Someone tagged your picture of lemon-breasted flycatcher to be distributed alternatively with GFDL. Is this correct? I have found nowhere that you would allow it. -Hapsiainen 21:02, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

Re: Copyright info

I added the GFDL message because all contribtions to Wikipedia are automatically released under the GFDL. It's on the "upload file" page ("By uploading a file to which you hold the copyright, you agree to licence it under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License.") Image uploaders may specify additional licenses (such as Creative Commons), but these must be in addition to the GFDL, not in place of. [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 23:57, Sep 19, 2004 (UTC)

Welcome back?

I just dropped by after seeing your name somewhere because I wondered if you'd returned. It appears you have been back on and off -- I'm glad. We need more editors like you, and I hope some of the house-clearing that's been done gives you more confidence about the place's future. And if things still seem the same, well, I'm glad you're around now and then, and hope you'll continue giving us your excellent work when you can. If Wikipedia is a broken marriage for you, well, I hope you can remain friends with this ex, if only for the sake of us kids. :-) Once again, I'm very pleased to see you're still around, and hope to see more of your editing in the future -- best wishes as always, Jwrosenzweig 22:18, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

auDA + July 1 2004

Hi!

I don't intend on creating an edit war, and I understand your POV, but the number of cut off domains was in a small minority (fraction of a percent), so whilst it was possibly devastating for those affected, for the majority of people it was a non-event.

Also, auDA didn't deregister anything. Technically, the registry (AusRegistry) did, but that is trivia. The reason they stopped working is not that they were deregistered, rather they expired after the two year registration lapsed. The reason this all happened on July 1 2004 is it was the two year anniversary of the new registry system. The problem was domains prior to 1996(-ish) (varies from 2LD to 2LD) had no expiry date as they were handed out in perpetuity (hence the iiNet court case stated in the article). The .au policy was that such domains were given a nominal registration date of July 1 2002 (the "go-live" date), and as all .au domains are leased on 2 year terms, it would therefore need to be renewed before the 2 year cycle ended as with other domains. As they were expired domains they can't be considered in "good standing".

It is impossible for me to say why you specifically didn't get renewal notices, but the announcement wasn't merely contained to the website. I understand some got caught up in some ISP's spam filters, etc. I received advices about it via other means for affected domains, and indeed most had acted on those advices. As I understand it only a small number of domains were ultimately affected on July 1.

--kjd 08:03, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Page moves

1. The moves follow the American precedent.
2. The moves follow the precedent with the suburbs of all Australian capital cities.
3. They were all over the place (some at City, some at City, State, and some at City, Australia), and needed standardising.
4. When they're like that, it's very hard to find which cities we actually have articles on. Ambi 10:14, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

And precisely where did this Bible come from? I gave you the rationale - and it wasn't just copying the Americans. They also follow the precedent in the suburbs of Sydney and Melbourne. It's utterly stupid to have all the suburbs at Suburb, State, and all the others at a mix of Town, Town, Australia, and Town, State. Oh well, I've got a bit of time in the ad breaks. Time to start reverting, I guess. Ambi 12:09, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Where is all this prior discussion then? And from how long ago? As I've told you twice now, the most recent precedent is in the suburbs of all capital cities, which are now uniformly in the standard of Suburb, State. Since you don't seem to bother participating in any of these discussions, I'm not surprised that you're not aware, however. Considering the development of the suburbs, expanding that to the regional towns is only common sense, rather than the random mishmash we had before. Ambi 12:27, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Apologies for butting in, but I've brought this up for discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (city names)#Naming convention for Australia (take 2) -- Chuq 23:35, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've posted extended reasoning for these changes, and in contrast, you keep screaming about some naming convention that appears to not exist, as you haven't even been able to point to a prior discussion - let alone a recent one, and you don't appear to back this up with any reasoning whatsoever. Hell, if you'd even given me a bit of advance warning before you decided to go on either of your reverting sprees, I'd have been a little bit more conciliatory. However, as it just seems like your first response is to scream "consensus, now go away!" before I've even had a chance to respond, then I guess it's just time to revert again. Ambi 04:56, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

If you have a problem, then feel free to file an RfC. Just because I forget to add the page to my watchlist, and people continue to discuss the matter, while leaning towards agreeing with my changes, does not give you the right to call the matter "solved" as you have REPEATEDLY attempted to do. I have also repeatedly asked you to point me in the direction of prior discussions on this matter *in regard to Australia*, which you have also neglected to do, despite repeatedly referring to them.

As I have also stated numerous times, this has already been discussed in relation to suburbs, and this was the consensus. Since you do not appear to bother participating in such discussions, you didn't appear to know of this.

Look, I'm entirely willing to negotiate on this. I've posted my reasoning on the discussion page, and if the will of the community says that it goes back to being a mess, then that is fine. But I strongly object to your behaviour here - simply stating that "it's solved" and refusing to discuss the matter any further. Ambi 12:42, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Playa

Nice picture, but could you provide a higher resolution and appropriately rotated version please? If you do not have the capability, just e-mail me via my user page a version that I can fix. After all, dry lakes are always horizontal. Thanks, Leonard G. 01:12, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Remember to tag as with a license :). Thue | talk 20:28, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Lake Hart image

I have consolidated all discussion and added a paragraph addressing your concerns at my talk page: User_talk:Leonard_G.#Playa. Thanks for the fix -- Leonard G. 00:56, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC) (moved from user page by Angela)

License ?

Hi, could you tell me the license of Image:Bactrian Camel.jpg ? We use it on french wikipedia. Thanks in advance. Tipiac 23:36, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Ballarat image

Hi Tannin - I've been answering email for Jimbo and Wikimedia recently. I've had a query about one of your photos - Image:Rat1-640.jpg (or rather the version adjusted by User:Dwindrim and on the Eureka Stockade page). The writer was doubtful that it was of Ballarat, could you confirm it hasn't been mislabelled or anything? Thanks -- sannse (talk) 02:58, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yep. See Talk:Ballarat Tannin 13:42, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Tannin -- sannse (talk) 17:32, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I must be blind

I really must. You've been contributing for months and I never noticed that you'd returned. Glad to see you back again. Cheers -- Derek Ross | Talk 06:36, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

Eureka Stockade

After rescuing this article from VfD way back, I saw it to featured article status. However, as your reworking demonstrates, the work is never entirely done. Your contribution makes this an even better article. Denni☯ 16:09, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Forum for Encyclopedic Standards

I have drafted a proposal for a new voluntary association on Wikipedia (joining groups like the Wikipedia:The Business and Economics Forum and the Wikipedia:Harmonious editing club) to promote discussion of a sort of system of expert review on Wiki. Please take a look and add your ideas. 172 08:11, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Bird identification

I have a question, and Jimfbleak indicated you might know the answer. What sort of bird is this? Is it a parrot? A cockatoo? Any help you could be would be appreciated. – Quadell ^{(talk) (help)}[[]] 14:05, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

Is it OK to copy your votes onto the main endorsements page?

You provided a well-written explanation of who you are endorsing for your vote.

Would you mind if I copied your endorsements onto the main endorsements page?

Cheers,

--DV 08:30, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your permission. Your votes now appear on the main endorsements page with your accompanying text indicating your reasoning and why they should be counted as votes in addition to endorsements.

Cheers, --DV 08:47, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

By the way, I am trying to generate more publicity for the election, in an effort to get out the vote, because it is not being publicized on the main page, nor have messages been posted onto every user's talk page.

Please, would you consider posting the following banner and links onto your user page? A large number of other pages link to your user page, so it would be a big boost to the publicity for the election if you would provide the space on your page.

Here is the banner and links, for your consideration:

File:ArbComElectionDec2004.jpg

Election Info — Candidates — Endorsements

If you like this announcement, please copy and paste the above four lines anywhere onto your user page (preferably close to the top :).

Thanks for trying to participate in the election, I hope they accept your absentee votes!

Cheers,

--DV 08:53, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for placing the announcement on your user page! --DV 09:16, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hi, Just wondering, So I can work on different aspects of campaign, why didn't you vote for me? Thanks!Chuck F 09:55, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

'cause I never heard of you till just now! Tannin

Exciting new feature to control campaign messages

Hi Tannin,

Well, it seems that some folks are truly put upon when it comes to campaign messages, even to the point of not wanting other users to receive such messages.

Please vote at Software and features, to approve an exciting new feature that allows users to control whether or not they receive campaign messages.

I'm hopeful that if users are allowed to explicitly declare their willingness to receive such messages, that others will not feel quite so offended.

If you'll support this effort, I think it will go a long ways towards increasing voter turnout in future elections.

Thanks in advance if you choose to help out.

Cheers,

--DV 11:45, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for adding your comments to the proposal, Tannin!

There are two separate issues here: pure, get-out-the-vote efforts, and candidate-specific messages.

I'm still on the fence about candidate-specific messages, because I happen to know from real-world experience that they work, and yet I understand the various folks who indicate they are turned off by them.

But there is a time-honored tradition of get-out-the-vote efforts, and even that much was met with a lot of hemming and hawing on the part of several Administrators when I asked if we could do more to publicize the election.

Perhaps I will make this point clearer in the proposal, but I would really like to know how many editors regularly hang out at recent changes, vs the number of editors who just edit the articles they are interested in and would otherwise be unaware that elections are even taking place.

I only became aware of the upcoming election because I saw an offhand reference to it on a user talk page. I very well could have continued editing articles and heard nothing about the election. I think many other editors are in this same boat.

My motivation is this - given the failure of the current administration to improve the editing environment, (many serious and very experienced editors have repeatedly expressed how stressful it is is to work on political or history articles), I insist that we need fresh faces with fresh ideas.

Restricting publicity about the elections to the portal and recent changes pages does not help increase voter turnout. And yet this lack of real publicity is what several administrators have said is "the way it's done around here".

Elections really need to be publicized on many, many user talk pages (in a tasteful manner, of course), to bring in those fresh new faces, or the editing environment will simply continue to stagnate with very slow improvements.

Please let me know if you have other ideas for how to improve the editing environment, but getting out the vote seems to be a critical part of it.

Thanks.

--DV 12:48, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Your excellent refinements to the edit screen message idea

Tannin, do you know who needs to be contacted, or what page a proposal needs to be posted on, to make Jimbo's suggestion, and your refinements to it, a reality?

Should I just make another proposal on the Software proposals section or is there a more direct avenue to pursue this?

Thanks.

--DV 06:10, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

foto of Rhea

Hi Tanni,
you have uploaded this foto. A fotogalerie (with one foto) existed on the page by "Wikimedia Commens". I upload the foto on the "Wikimedia Commens" and hope, it is okay. Best -- Zwoenitzer

Article Licensing

I've "started" the Free the Rambot Articles Project which aims to get users to release all of their contributions to the U.S. state, county, and city articles (if any) under the CC-by-sa 1.0 and 2.0 license (at minimum) or into the public domain if they prefer. A secondary, but equally important, goal is to get those users to release ALL of their edits for ALL articles. I've personally chosen to multi-license all of the rambot and Ram-Man contributions under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License so that other projects, such as WikiTravel, can use our articles. I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all your contributions (or at minimum those on the geographic articles) so that we can keep most of the articles available under the multi-license. Many users use the {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} template (or even {{MultiLicensePD}} for public domain) on their user page, but there are other templates for other options at Template messages/User namespace. If you only prefer using the GFDL, I understand, but I thought I'd at least ask, just in case, since the number of your edits is in the top 100. If you do want to do it, simply just copy and paste one of the above two templates into your user page and it will allow us to track those users who have done it. For example:

Option 1

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

OR

Option 2

I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain (which many people do or don't like to do, see Wikipedia:Multi-licensing), you could replace {{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}} with {{MultiLicensePD}} -- Ram-Man 00:21, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)

Image:Pilliga.jpg

Could you tag the copyright of Image:Pilliga.jpg? --Error 03:23, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Also, Image:K63-450plus.jpg? Thanks! Kbh3rd 19:26, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Image:Agouti.jpg

There is no copyright tag for Image:Agouti.jpg either. However, since you say that the animal is in fact a mara (and seeing that Image:Mara.jpg is your correction), would you prefer listing Image:Agouti.jpg for deletion? --Ricky81682 (talk) 07:12, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)

Request similar action on Image:AMD-Athlon-XP-2100s.jpg and Image:AMD-Athlon-XP-2100l.jpg. 119 22:52, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Also Image:DouglasMacArthur-s.jpg --Aqua 02:00, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

Unverified images

Hi! Thanks for uploading the following images:

• Image:Lake_Eildon.jpg
• Image:Lake_Eildon2.jpg

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use {{gfdl}} if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License, {{PD-self}} if you wish to release your own work to the public domain, {{fairuse}} if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much. Peter O. (Talk, automation script) 20:58, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at User:Yann/Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

Also: Image:Road train-800.jpg

Image:Onager (animal).jpg

User:Fuelbottle uploaded Image:Onager (animal).jpg which he claims to have gotten from you. I assume that this is with permission, so I'm wondering how you'd like it to be tagged. Thanks. --Aqua 06:29, Jan 1, 2005 (UTC)

Drongo photo=

Hi tannin. i would like to use your photo of the Spangled-drongo ([6]) for the artikle in the german wikipedia. I read the license, and i dont know your real name, so i dont want to use it. Could you place it in the german article about the drongo ([7])please? thanks. Linum 19:30, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Image:Australian-Pelicans-s.jpg on ifd

Hi. Image:Australian-Pelicans-s.jpg has been listed on images for deletion as it is a thumbnail which are no longer needed on Wikipedia. The thumbnail is currently linked on one of your user subpages. A simple solution is to link to the larger image instead Image:Australian-Pelicans.jpg and use the "thumb" option. RedWolf 04:02, Jan 17, 2005 (UTC)

Welcome back!

Nice to see you editing again! Too bad the site has been so slow - but we are working on that. :) --mav 00:58, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It certainly is good to see your name again Tannin. See you when you are back again again :) -- sannse (talk) 11:34, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Image uploaded by you

Image:Red-necked Stint.jpg doesn't have author and copyright information. Could you write them to the image description page? And you should also put there the actual copyright tag. -Hapsiainen 23:27, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

Also Image:Black-necked Stilt-252.jpg lacks copyright and author info. -Hapsiainen 22:51, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)

Moving Pages

Hi, as you may have seen I returned last month. I've just been taking it slow & testing the waters, trying to see if Wikipedia had any better options now. And I didn't want to worry you if I could avoid asking.

..I've just chanced a test on the Wikipedia:Requested_moves to move Papua (Indonesian province) to Papua Province, Indonesia.

Also a couple of days ago John allowed me to move the text from the page, I moved it to 'West Papua' - then he moved it to 'Western New Guinea'. You've gotta laugh. ;-)

Anyway I thought maybe, the Wikipedia:Requested_moves page could work as people need only say one word.

The only two tactics I think are worth doing are 1) use the Request page to get some workable titles, 2) apply "NPOV dispute" notices until the page contents are fixed. And ignore hot air on discussion page.

BTW: hope all's been well; all best. :) --Daeron 21:39, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

New ship table template

I've spent the last few days working on a new ship table template to enable us to centralise the editing of things like weapons outfits for a particular class of ships in one template (so with the Fletchers or Gearings or other big classes you only have to edit in one place to alter a mistake rather than in dozens or hundreds). Please have a look at the WikiProject Ships page's talk section and see what you think. I haven't written the instructions for using it yet, and I want to see whether there are any table cells people would like me to include that aren't present yet. There are two example tables, one with all the optional cells present, and the other with some excluded. David Newton 14:05, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Capitalization

Please stop wrongly capitalizing the word "emu". This is the English - not German - Wikipedia. In English nouns are only capitalized when they are proper nouns or the first word of a sentence. We do not capitalize every instance of such words as "kangaroo", "wombat", "chair" or "bicycle", and "emu" is no different. The rules of English grammar are very clear on this point.--Centauri 01:23, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

DDT

Hi Tannin! Haven't talked to you in a long time (dunno if you even remember me)... Wikipedia has gotten so big it's easy to get lost. Anywho, a long time back you wrote about declines in raptor populations on Talk:DDT. The issue has come up again; some people are alleging it didn't happen. Unfortunately I don't know of any good comprehensive studies on the subject. Do you? Or at least solid, well-established representative cases? Thanks, Graft 16:02, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Image:Brolga.jpg

Hi Tannin,

I noticed you licensed Image:Brolga.jpg under a non-free license. As it stands, the photo will have to be deleted eventually, which would be a shame. Perhaps you'd be willing to release it under the GFDL or a free Creative Commons license, such as {{cc-by-sa-2.0}}?

Thanks, dbenbenn | talk 00:24, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi Dbenbenn. Delete away. I am happy to see my images used here on the Wikipedia for non-commercial purposes, but there is no way known I'll put them under a licence that allows Wikipedia parasite sites open slater. (As an aside, the powers that be at Wikimedia have serious problems with the way they define "free" and "non-free", and use the term non-free in a way that sits very poorly with the cooperative wiki spirit. But that's a matter for another day.) Best regards, Tannin 06:20, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry, I'm not going to delete them. I was trying to save them from eventual deletion. (I love your road train photo, by the way!) And I'm very sympathetic with your opinion about the mirrors. Oh well, it was worth a try. Cheers, dbenbenn | talk 06:38, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No worries. I heard on the news that the Stuart Highway (Adelaide to Darwin - straight up the middle of the continent) was blocked yesterday because one of those overturned and caught fire. I trust it was a general freighter, not one of the fuel tankers! Tannin