Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/I Killed the Prom Queen
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was procedural close. forgotten AFD? (non-admin closure) Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:28, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I Killed the Prom Queen[edit]
Non-notable, vanity page for a band that has mastered the art of the google bomb. --Viriditas 11:57, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Keep. I'd heard of them before finding out about this Wikipedia article. Marginally notable. --Daniel C. Boyer 15:55, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I have no doubt that you have heard of them. However, does that make them notable? I could create page after page devoted to indie bands, none of which are notable. Should I do that? Heh. --Viriditas 08:18, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete. Vanity, non-notable nonsense. jni 13:36, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Keep, their cd has an entry on allmusic.com which suggests minor notability, and that this page is not vanity. —siroχo 22:35, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
- Any musician or band can submit their material to allmusic.com, provided the music is commercially available. All that means is that you have to have CD's for sale, either through mail-order or at the local store. This has nothing to do with notability, nor does it suggest notability in any way. It is possible that the band is locally or regionally notable, but on a spectrum of non-notable to notable, they are closer to non-notable. Like I said before, these musicians are masters of google bombing, including placing their music on high-traffic websites. There is nothing notable about promoting your band.--Viriditas 03:32, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- delete. Mikkalai 21:07, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete - There must be a million non-notable bands in the world.--Jll 11:18, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Keep. Maybe there are - get writing! Intrigue 18:16, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability Tuf-Kat 18:18, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
- Delete: no evidence of notability. Wile E. Heresiarch 01:25, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Delete. Ambi 03:49, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Keep. The article is awful but I have heard of the group and I think it's quite a slippery slope deleting bands just because they aren't particularly well known in mainstream culture. Sarge Baldy 04:06, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
- According to the article for Wikipedia:Vanity_page, fame should be ignored in deletion debates. What is important is notablity. Is this band notable? Also, does the article interact with other articles in some way? And, is it encyclopedic? IMO, the answers appear to be no. All the google searches I've done on the band turn up local, regional, and non-notable links. The same holds true for literally, thousands of indie bands. Check the metalcore article page. Perhaps if they were added to that page as a notable band (if indeed that's true) and the article was longer than 25 words, you would have an argument against deletion. Hint, hint. --Viriditas 06:18, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I don't even remotely like metal but made something of an effort to make it look tolerable. I'd argue they're notable since it seems from what I could see that a fair number of people enjoy their music, buy their material, and generally are devoted fans of the group. Look over my changes anyway, and redecide. I don't care enough to do much more than what I've done. Sarge Baldy 07:00, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
- Can you quantify "fair number of people" and "devoted fans"? How many people are you talking about? I took a look at their web site and it looks like they have never left the country, let alone their home town. I think the changes you've made are good, but the question remains, are fans of metalcore going to be looking for this band on a separate page, and are they considered notable in that genre?--Viriditas 10:58, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I don't think I could give numbers, and I'm not versed enough in metalcore to make a judge on where they fit into the hierarchy. I don't see that it particularly matters whether they've physically left their hometown (a city of 1,000,000+ people) so long as their influence expands beyond there, and I would judge that it does, considering their debut album was released both in Australia and in the United States. Sarge Baldy 16:14, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
- The reason I bring up their geographic isolation is because most notable bands have toured other countries. You said that their album was released in the states, but I can't find it in any stores. Where can you buy it in the states? --Viriditas 22:13, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- The album is being distributed in the United States through Hope of Hand Records (see their webpage here). Don't ask me where exactly where it's been distributed, as I don't have any idea. But if they're big enough to get signed to a US label in addition to an Australian one, they obviously have attracted at least some attention there. Sarge Baldy 22:23, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
- They didn't get signed to a big label, they got signed to a two-man operation with a P.O. box, which is hardly notable, although it might be notable to a small, select group of people, in which case its not encycolopedic. Anyhoo, if someone (anyone) can prove that they can find this band's CD in a store, please reply. The site claims that it was released to stores on August 24. Either way, I could care less about the label or the distribution methods. The band has not toured anywhere else besides their home country, nor have they been written up in any popular publications, so how could they be notable? A lot of obsessive music fans post to USENET, and I couldn't find one reference to this band on any newsgroup. --Viriditas 22:38, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I think where we're coming in conflict is I don't agree that a band needs to be listed in a magazine or be signed to a large mainstream label to be considered notable. Furthermore, taking a look at the matter they have toured to the United States, look closely on the band's main page and you'll see they've held shows in several locations in the United States recently, including Orlando, New York, and Los Angeles. Sarge Baldy 22:47, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
- I have never said that a band must be listed in a magazine or signed to a large mainstream label to be considered notable, nor do many of the music pages I've created and/or contributed to reflect that opinion. The popular zines of the punk/metalcore subculture should be notable enough, and that's certainly not mainstream...or is it? I also asked if they were considered notable by fans of metalcore, such as a band of interest, and if they aren't notable in their genre for whatever reasons, what are they notable for? And, FWIW, I did find one record store that carries their CD - Repo Records in Philly. IMO, the band is still non-notable. --Viriditas 23:38, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I think where we're coming in conflict is I don't agree that a band needs to be listed in a magazine or be signed to a large mainstream label to be considered notable. Furthermore, taking a look at the matter they have toured to the United States, look closely on the band's main page and you'll see they've held shows in several locations in the United States recently, including Orlando, New York, and Los Angeles. Sarge Baldy 22:47, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
- They didn't get signed to a big label, they got signed to a two-man operation with a P.O. box, which is hardly notable, although it might be notable to a small, select group of people, in which case its not encycolopedic. Anyhoo, if someone (anyone) can prove that they can find this band's CD in a store, please reply. The site claims that it was released to stores on August 24. Either way, I could care less about the label or the distribution methods. The band has not toured anywhere else besides their home country, nor have they been written up in any popular publications, so how could they be notable? A lot of obsessive music fans post to USENET, and I couldn't find one reference to this band on any newsgroup. --Viriditas 22:38, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- The album is being distributed in the United States through Hope of Hand Records (see their webpage here). Don't ask me where exactly where it's been distributed, as I don't have any idea. But if they're big enough to get signed to a US label in addition to an Australian one, they obviously have attracted at least some attention there. Sarge Baldy 22:23, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
- The reason I bring up their geographic isolation is because most notable bands have toured other countries. You said that their album was released in the states, but I can't find it in any stores. Where can you buy it in the states? --Viriditas 22:13, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I don't think I could give numbers, and I'm not versed enough in metalcore to make a judge on where they fit into the hierarchy. I don't see that it particularly matters whether they've physically left their hometown (a city of 1,000,000+ people) so long as their influence expands beyond there, and I would judge that it does, considering their debut album was released both in Australia and in the United States. Sarge Baldy 16:14, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
- Can you quantify "fair number of people" and "devoted fans"? How many people are you talking about? I took a look at their web site and it looks like they have never left the country, let alone their home town. I think the changes you've made are good, but the question remains, are fans of metalcore going to be looking for this band on a separate page, and are they considered notable in that genre?--Viriditas 10:58, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I don't even remotely like metal but made something of an effort to make it look tolerable. I'd argue they're notable since it seems from what I could see that a fair number of people enjoy their music, buy their material, and generally are devoted fans of the group. Look over my changes anyway, and redecide. I don't care enough to do much more than what I've done. Sarge Baldy 07:00, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)
- According to the article for Wikipedia:Vanity_page, fame should be ignored in deletion debates. What is important is notablity. Is this band notable? Also, does the article interact with other articles in some way? And, is it encyclopedic? IMO, the answers appear to be no. All the google searches I've done on the band turn up local, regional, and non-notable links. The same holds true for literally, thousands of indie bands. Check the metalcore article page. Perhaps if they were added to that page as a notable band (if indeed that's true) and the article was longer than 25 words, you would have an argument against deletion. Hint, hint. --Viriditas 06:18, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- Keep. I've got all of their CD's and it's all legit. I can't prove it I know, but it is true.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.