Talk:Stage lighting

Stage lighting was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 13, 2006	Good article nominee	Not listed

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Untitled[edit]

any plans for articles on stage lighting design, use of colours, Gobo's and other filters, what about sound reactive lighting and projection. etc.

Thoughts on how to clean this up?[edit]

As it stands this article does have some good information, but it's also a bit of a mess. In particular, differences between US and UK nomenclature aren't always fully elaborated. There is also the lighting designer article which says some of the same things this article does. I really think that we need to make this page the main article for anything related to stage lighting and bring the other articles (lighting control consoles, lighting designer, etc.) into a sensible hierarchy. This page itself needs a better format than what it has right now; in the broadest terms, maybe three sections: one for theory (principles/quality of lighting in the current article), one for instruments, and one for the people involved. Then we could branch out with subpages from the article as necessary. If anybody has any other thoughts, I'd love to hear them.Kevin M Marshall 17:42, 20 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Good ideas. The three sections sound good, maybe:

stage lighting theory
lighting designer
lighting instruments

The latter is very long in the current article. It woould be nice to reduce each instrument's entry to one or two paragraphs, and a link to its main article. Dan 09:48, 16 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'd add to that that there needs to be some disambiguation between stage lighting in general and theatre (plain and musical) lighting, concert lighting, Rock & Roll lighting, and TV lighting.

Would you need to capture the differences between abateur and professional too? User:Rufty 18:28, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There should be a section on stage lighting theory as mentioned above, explaining the principles practically- i.e. how to produce the describes qualities/effects, and some general guidelines on HOW to light a stage in various environments. user:bfleet315

The differences between amateur and professional are a matter of degree. The pros do the same thing as the amateurs, just with a lot more lights. I'd also agree that it might be a good idea to keep this article solely on theatre (and possibly opera, maybe even ballet) and split off the TV and concert lighting to other articles. Arguably, perhaps a page solely on theatre lighting would better titled "theatre lighting" rather than stage lighting. But I don't really have an opinion on that matter. Kevin M Marshall 21:53, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Just a note on nomenclature; the jargon used in other parts of the english speaking world also varies radically. I've seen the same thing happen in French, as well. Perhaps it would be a good idea to just stick to one simple set of terms, rather than using colloquialisms. While this isn't entirely possible with some aspects of lighting, we could probably just use the engineering terms for many of the aspects of the electrical side of things, and for instrument terminology, stick with either brand specific, or complex engineering terms for stuff (I.E.- no differentiation between profile, or a flood, instead call it what the instrument is, A fresnel, a PAR, etc...). Those of us who started in the industry before getting any formal schooling in it were taught mostly specific names, rather than general ones. It removes a great deal of ambiguity from the text, and it makes it easier for someone who has no experience to understand the difference. As for the disambiguation of Stage versus everything else, It's not needed. If you work in one, an understanding of the basic principles of the others is present, and we're not dealing with an industry article here. Lighting is lighting, whatever you apply it to.--Caspiankilkelly 19:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pictures[edit]

We could use lots of pictures. Looking through some of the articles on lighting, we don't have much. I don't know if any of you have access to lights right now (unfortunately, I don't), but we could really use pictures of every instrument we mention. They don't all need to be on this page, but they should be on every instrument's main page. Production pictures which illustrate certain facets of lighting could also be very useful.

There may be usable stuff out on the Internet, but that can cause copyright troubles, so the easiest thing to do would be to take the pictures ourselves. Kevin M Marshall 22:17, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I could get pictures of many different kinds of instruments, but I need to know what we need. --Driken 04:07, 13 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the best pictures would be of individual instruments hanging in position, possibly illuminated, but we really need the whole lantern to be visible, not just the lens! - danyoung - 21:27, 23 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm hanging a show this weekend. If I get a chance, I'll take some pictures and post them. --Squigish 01:37, 24 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't end up getting any pictures, my schedule was way too crazy. I spent 15 continuous hours in the theater on Sunday.... --Squigish 16:58, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I took pictures and posted them... Stage lighting instrument --Drik e n^(talk) 23:48, 22 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Do we really need 3 pictures from "Classical Spectacular"? Are there no other pictures available that illustrate what "stage Lighting" looks like? A quick search of flickr produced the following all with CC licenses:
http://flickr.com/photos/su-chan/sets/72157594272362125/
http://flickr.com/photos/rtpeat/29894117/
http://flickr.com/photos/pinkbeat/64988413/
http://flickr.com/photos/pinkbeat/64988387/
http://flickr.com/photos/chezsterno/160350717/
http://flickr.com/photos/shanebee/132735698/
http://flickr.com/photos/5500/43967078/
--Mattarata 15:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a picture of a show i did as an example of different elemants of lighting used togeather (moving heads, dimmers, pixel etc)~Wilflet (talk) 00:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

History Needed[edit]

I'm surprised. This article badly needs a "History" section (if there is already one in another article, then it's not referenced). Carbon arc lights were first used in theater lighting, for example in 1846 (Paris Opera House). Gaslights in 1817. Colored gaslights. Famous theater fires caused by hazardous lighting. Limelight. (That's where the word "in the limelight" came from) Good information can be found at: [1] [2] Mdrejhon 08:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Needed[edit]

Also, the Spotlight (theater) article, ought to be merged with this article. The info in the latter stub appears to be already duplicated in the main article. Mdrejhon 08:52, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Master Electrician / Light Board Operator merges[edit]

I think each of these articles have enough detail to stand in their own right, and that merging them into Stage lighting would further clutter the main article. I say leave them how they are, and reference them from here. - danyoung - 23:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stage lighting instruments split[edit]

I generally support a split to stage lighting instrument. I would say everything form the Floodlights and Spotlights section could be taken to the new article, leaving an overview behind. I think it's important to maintain the exisiting further articles on each individual instrument type, to allow for more expansion, pictures, usage, etc - danyoung - 23:52, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i do not support the split this being an encyclopedia and according to [[3]] mergeing and moveing pages.

Orphaned text[edit]

Below, please find leftover text from the Lighting article which applies more to Stage lighting. Edit, delete, merge as required. — Dogears (talk) 21:13, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Concert and theatre lighting use special types of fixtures. Conventional lighting consists of stationary lights that can only be moved manually, by means of adjusting, or focusing the fixture with a yoke. Automated lighting fixtures use digital electronics to adjust the color, position, beam angle, brightness, and other special effects. In the United States, automated lighting fixtures are normally controlled by the United States Institute of Theatre Technology Digital Multiplex - 512 Channel Standard Protocol, or simply DMX-512. The protocol runs on standard three pin XLR cable, although, some older theatres still use five pin DMX cabling. Generally, standard sound XLR cabling is not suitable for lighting, because the gauge of the wire is too small.

Conventional Fixtures are stationary or 'fixed' and normally controlled by a power cable, allowing the fixture to output a beam of light with a brightness of 0 to 100 percent. Power for the fixtures is provided by dimmers which receive control signal, either digitally multiplexed (DMX) or analog $+/-$ 12v from the main lighting desk or console, where all of the lights used in a production are controlled. A short cable is normally hardwired or connected to the body of the light and has an electrical connector on the end. Connectors are fuseless, as the fuse for the fixture is provided at the dimmer end of the circuit.

Types of fixtures include:

Profile spot (various beam angles)
Fresnel (variable beam angle)
Prism Convex (variable beam angle)
PAR (exchangeable bulbs create varying beam angles/effects)
Flood (used primarily for lighting backdrops)

Although these fixtures are of the 'fixed' variety, they are adjustable to a huge degree. All Theatrical Lighting Fixtures should have a steel or metal color or 'gel' frame, which slots into a receiver at the front of the fixture. These are used for holding acrylic color 'gel', which is available in many hundreds of shades and hues.

Profiles are Used for front (face) lighting and, with the insertion of a 'gobo' (stainless steel pattern) are used for break-up effects or projecting simple images onto the stage floor or set/backdrop. Profiles have one or two convex or plano-convex lenses, which can be adjusted to create a larger or smaller beam, with a hard or soft edge, and have steel shutters placed at the focal point of these lenses, to cut away unwanted portions of the beam.

Fresnel fixtures are used for color washes, side, front and back-lighting. These have a pebbled lens with concentric rings, which results in a large hazy circle around the focal point of the lantern. The beam size is adjusted by a screw, which actually moves the bulb of the fixture forwards and backwards within the body of the lamp. Large metal 'barndoors' (four in total) are affixed to the front of the lamp on a rotating ring, to cut away unwanted parts of the beam.

Prism Convex' fixtures or 'PCs', are much the same as fresnels, but with a prism convex lens instead of fresnel lens. The body of PCs is longer than fresnels. PCs produce a more focused beam than fresnels, and are suitable for many of the same applications as fresnels and profiles.

PARs or PAR cans are among the most simple and widely-used theatrical lighting fixtures. They basically consist of a tube of steel or aluminum with a rounded removable end, for changing lamps (bulbs). PAR lamps contain a reflector (Parabolic Aluminumized Reflector), filament and lens in an enclosed glass envelope, and have various beam types:

Very Narrow Spot (VNS or CP60)
Narrow Spot (NS or CP61)
Medium Flood (M)
Wide Flood (W or CP62)
Very wide Flood

Flood fixtures usually have a halogen tube bulb, backed by a curved symmetric or asymmetric reflector, to give a flat beam to be used for lighting sets or backdrops from above or below.

Qualities of Lighting[edit]

Should "Focus" be added to qualities of lighting? The focus can affect the overall effect of the lighting. Soft and Hard focus creat many different effects JWGreen 04:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I see this has been done... I forgot about my request untill someone actually made the edit. -JWGreen 19:13, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Focus, position, and hanging" should either be expanded on or moved to a different section/article. Possibly the article on electricians should be expanded to include a description of hanging/focusing. - Spitefulcrow 22:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Failed GA[edit]

As of 13 October 2006, I am making a speedy failing for this article to reach Good Article status, per WP:WIAGA, because of the following fatal reason: This article is totally unsourced. Please provide your reliable sources according to WP:CITE to support the three pillars of Wikipedia: neutral point of view, no element of original research and verifiable. I've put a template in this article for editors to fill in their references. Please do not consider it as discouraging.

If all of the above matter has been fixed, this article can be renominate it again. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 11:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Chase and Scene[edit]

Sceneand Chase are terms I came across while installing a new DMX controller, that have not been adequately explained. Is this the page for that?

Arne Arne B 21:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

According to Indon, the reason for the failed GA of last october was This article is totally unsourced. That means, we better get citing. Have fun! -JWGreen 00:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Photos[edit]

Yes, the photos of the spectacular are irrelevant. I send out a request through WikiProject:Stagecraft for some real state lighting not concert lighting. --Wforlines 06:12, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have nothing against using a photo of instruments other than Source Fours, but I think for the lead immages we should strive to have images that are of the same quality as that Source Four image that was removed. -JWGreen 21:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies for using a cell phone camera. KeepOnTruckin ^{Complain to me | my work here} 03:37, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pics[edit]

I have a few pics if needed

A Strip of Par cans with different coloured gels

Just an FYI on the par cans- you can't change the shape of the beam with barn doors. Or any other type of thing for that matter. KeepOnTruckin ^{Complain to me | my work here} —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 19:48, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citations[edit]

We have essentially none, and since this is a top importance article for WikiProject Stagecraft, we need to work on that, especially if we have any chance of getting this article up to GA quality. I'll work on some in my free time, but I only have limited resources. Lets all add a few citations and cleanup the article some as were doing that, that should get us close to GA quality. -JWGreen (talk) 20:27, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I added a bunch of citations from the two books that I have relevant to Stage Lighting. As I read articles in Live Design or LSA I can add sources from there, but it would be nice to have a greater variety of sources in the article, so if anyone has any other sources, especially relevant to intelegent lighting and consoles which I do not have sources for, please add them to the article as well. Maybe we can get this up to GA quality soon, it would be good to have a GA class article in WikiProject Stagecraft, since we don't have any right now. -JWGreen (talk) 20:27, 22 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Lighting Instrument" vs. "Light"[edit]

I've changed the sentence explaining the difference between "lighting instrument" and "light." It felt very condescending, because it implied that "light" was not a perfectly acceptable lay term for a lighting instrument. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pstinchcombe (talk • contribs) 18:33, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Proposal[edit]

I put a note up for Rig (stage lighting), mostly because it isn't enough to stand on its own. DJSparky ^huh? 21:09, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support. This is little more than a footnote within the topic of stage lighting. Lambtron (talk) 17:34, 30 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect or something strange[edit]

There is a redirect to Stage Lighting from Theatrical Lighting. But something is wrong.

I can get to two web addressed pages for the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatrical_lighting and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stage_lighting. But the content seems to be the same, including revisions.

The page that seems to be the redirect is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Theatrical_lighting&redirect=no.

The usual note in articles about a redirect only seems to appear when I go to the URL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatrical_lighting.

The talk page for each of them comes here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Stage_lighting). If I go to the article from this talk page, I always end up at the correct Stage Lighting address.

Something's strange here. But I've probably been asleep too long and cannot tell what it is. Help? Twistlethrop (talk) 17:41, 16 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dimming[edit]

Seems a particular source is not accepted for liquid dimmers 1882: A big push - electric theatre at the exposition in Munich, Germany -- with a saltwater dimmer to control the new power source - went like wildfire... https://novaonline.nvcc.edu/eli/spd130et/HistLighting.htm

The same system is still used to test massive KW electric generator loads :-) 220.244.104.139 (talk) 04:43, 4 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]