Talk:Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan
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Additions by 220.127.116.11
The latest additions by anonymous user 18.104.22.168 seem to be copyrighted from either here or here. If no one shows that the info is free to use in the next few days, I'm going to delete this added info.
This is a pretty big stub :)
Removal of objective criticism
As you can see by viewing the history if this article, anonymous user 22.214.171.124 continues to remove all objective criticism of Zayed. A contrastive study will show that this user is not interested in a balanced article, as evidenced by the unscrupulous deletion of any criticism whatsoever. I think it's time an administrator looks into this.
Personally, I am astounded by the deliberate bias against Sheikh Zayed that continues to be presented by Wikipedia. A neutral page should replace the current one. --Falcon44 15:18, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- I am astounded that you perceive a deliberate bias. Criticism and praise are so equally featured here. If you think there are any criticisms that you are certain are false and a result of bias, by all means remove them. State your reasons for doing so in the article or the edit summery, and speaking for myself, as a contributor, I will research them. If your edits are supportable, I for one will not revert them. --A. S. A. 06:00, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)
"Personally, I am astounded by the deliberate bias against Sheikh Zayed that continues to be presented by Wikipedia. A neutral page should replace the current one. --Falcon44 15:18, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)Falcon44"
- LOL* I see what you mean. The latter part certainly contradicts the main part. It has obviously not been written by anyone who has lived anywhere near the Middle East, let alone someone who has enough knowledge of the UAE and by someone who is biased by his/her Western education.
- Obviously this is going to start a long debate so I suppose we should go through it slowly for two reasons, 1)lack of time & 2)to make points absolutely clear.
- I've deleted a section about Sheikh Zayed's philanthropy being advertised because it is simply untrue. As it has not been advertised, there are no articles that I can show you to support my statement, but if you meet any Emirati you just have to ask them about it, because they are quite a close-knit community due to the size of their population (less than 20% of the 3.5 million ppl in the UAE are local) so some things are passed along through conversation.
I also think it is futile trying to claim that the Zayed Centre for Coordination and Follow Up was a vehicle for his ideas, if that was so then why would he close it down? He closed it down because he found out some of the activities that were going on were against his belief in tolerance. It was unfortunate that the centre carried his name, but in reality he was not responsible for it or its actions. I shall add more about the ZCCF issue as soon as I can.
Please if anyone has any questions so far, do not hesitate to ask. --Falcon44 20:01, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- What I find, reading these paragraphs, is a decidedly pro-Zayed bias. To assume that anyone who criticizes him in that article must have never went near the Middle East, or the UAE, is preposterous. My own contributions, as well as others, are based on travel and life in the UAE, as well as trustworthy sources like the BBC and Reuters, among others. Also, that he funded all those wonderful projects around the world is not in dispute. To say that it was from his own pocket, however, is ludicrous. As with all the rich Gulf leaders, their personal wealth CAME from the nation's oil wealth. Their checkbooks and the State Treasury were often indistinguishable. Nevertheless, Zayed could have easily chosen to horde the UAE's wealth only for Emiratis, but he didn't, and that is evident. As far as the propaganda pictures and TV footage Falcon44 refers to, I have seen it with my own eyes. It does not negate what he did, but it's important to edify readers that Media in the UAE is strictly controlled, and cult-worship of the ruling families was institutionalized. Again, this does not mean that Zayed was not genuinely liked and admired, but it is important to state all the facts. The simple fact is that there was not one jot of criticism allowed on the airwaves or in print. This is no great slur on Zayed or the UAE. The only 3 relatively lively and free presses in the Arab world are Lebanon, Egypt, and pre-war Kuwait. Qatar is just now experimenting with free media. Regardless, what is more evidence of a pro-Zayed bias then the systematic removal of every scrap of criticism from the article? Why do certain individuals not want the world to know that one of his weddings is recorded in the Guinness Book of Records as the most expensive ever? Why are they afraid to let people know that Zayed's "election" to the Presidency was by a mere group of 6 sheiks and not by a free and popular vote? All these facts were shamelessly deleted several times from the article. THAT is what I call bias. Also, you quoted one of his advisors. It is not very shocking that such a person would be overflowing with praise about his employer and benefactor. I do not consider that an objective source. That doesn't mean it cannot be mentioned. As long as it is made clear who said it, the readers can draw their own conclusions about the possible bias of the quotation. Perhaps you should include that quotation in the article, Falcon. Also, regarding the Zayed Center, that was not my contribution, but I find it very interesting. What you mentioned about it in this talk section is very important. I look forward to you expanding on how he founded the center, and why he became disenchanted with it and withdrew his support.
- Oh, incidentally, it would be a great help if you, and all contributors, made use of the "edit summary" section so that the rest of us can more efficiently keep track of who added/deleted what and for what reason. Thanks.--A. S. A. 07:56, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)
Two examples of bias in one sentence: the media "enthusiastically" publicised his charity "at every turn". It doesn't matter that you wrote that 'some critics' believe that, you make it appear to people who are looking for information that he only did things for publicity rather than from his heart.
Yes, the UAE press has censorship, but reform is slowly evolving with Dubai in the lead with Dubai Media City,etc.
As for this comment "cult-worship of the ruling families was institutionalized." I think there may be some misunderstandings so please explain, how was it institutionalised?
Aladdin, I'm not afraid of people knowing that elections in the UAE are made through the Federal Supreme Council, which is made up of the rulers of all 7 emirates. Who cares? Democracy does not work for everybody - Russia, the US (low voter turnout) and history can tell you this. Germany voted for Hitler, and the US has been involved in supporting dictators, and in supporting coups against certain governments - the former shows that the majority of people can be wrong, the latter shows that even the 'bastion of freedom' can be a thug. Democracy is not the only form of government, nor the best form of government, for every person on earth.
"Questioned by the New York Times on the topic of the possible introduction of an elected parliamentary democracy, Sheikh Zayed replied:
Why should we abandon a system that satisfies our people in order to introduce a system that seems to engender dissent and confrontation? Our system of government is based upon our religion, and is what our people want. Should they seek alternatives, we are ready to listen to them. We have always said that our people should voice their demands openly. We are all in the same boat, and they are both captain and crew. Our doors here are open for any opinion to be expressed, and this is well known by all our citizens."
His majlis was open for normal people to meet with him, while at other times he would go into town and meet other ordinary citizens. You will probably twist what I have written, but I suppose that it is to be expected under the circumstances.
Please, you may be right - I don't know- ,show me where in the Guiness Book of Records the most expensive wedding is listed.
As for the nation's oil wealth, that opens a new topic that I shall get to in time, hopefully along with the ZCCF.
I'm glad that you are open to hearing other people's opinions, and I hope we both benefit from these discussions. If I have offended you at all, I apologise. Lets keep this serious and leave bias and preconceived notions out of it.
By the way, when were you in the UAE? Abu Dhabi or Dubai? Did you enjoy your time there?
--Falcon44 13:11, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- It was Sheikh Mohammed's, Sheikh Zayed's third son's wedding to Sheikha Salama.
- What edition of the Guiness Book, and under what heading?
- Think they got married in 1981.
Hello. I hope everyone had a great New Year. When I logged on today, I was eagerly looking forward to reading about the controversy over the Sheik Zayed Center. Alas, there have been no new contributions. I hope they will be forthcoming. Some quick notes. I believe the wedding mentioned in the talk section, that of Sheikh Mohammed and Salma, was an Al-Maktoum family wedding, not Al-Nahyaan. It did break the Guinness record, and cost some US$ 44 million, and some 20,000 guests were invited over 7 or 8 days and the celebrations were held in a stadium built especially for the occasion. However a record did exist prior to the Maktoum wedding which Zayed held. It was many years ago, I don't remember the exact date, but I did see a copy of the Guinness Book of World Records in a UAE library, and the fact seemed well known and a source of pride for most Emiratis.
As for your pointing out "two examples of bias in one sentence," you are quite mistaken. Incidentally, you misquoted the phrase. The correct quotation is "the state-run media enthusiastically publicized his philanthropy at every turn." It is a grammatically sound sentence expressing exactly one sentiment. There is no duality, either in expressing bias or anything else. While you may have a case for redundancy, "dual bias in one sentence" is quite unfounded. Forgive me, I mean no offense, but your command of English may be lacking, at least in this instance. Even your edit summary notes were inaccurate. You said you "taken out some of the bias." Well of course, we disagree on what constitutes bias. However, your editing did not remove a sentiment, you merely shortened a paragraph without materialy altering what it was expressing. The example of Zayed giving money to schoolchildren was put in by someone else when they obliterated all criticism from the article and filled it with such instances of propaganda. I merely pointed out that it was common to see Zayed, as well as other Sheikhs, doing these things on TV and in the newspapers. The paragraph you edited presented both points of view. I did not revert your cut because the information remains essentially intact.
Regarding your inquiry about institutionalized cult-worship. This term refers to the deliberate cultivation by the State of a desired image using propaganda distributed through tightly controlled media. It is common in all authoritarian regimes and non-democratic governments, without exception. I make a distinction between the two because the UAE is an example of a non-democratic government while, for the most part, it is not considered an authoritarian regime. North Korea and Saddam Hussein's Iraq are prime examples of the latter. What they share, is the extensive adoration of ruling figures espoused by state-run media and the suppression of any criticism or opposition. What I find ironic, is that Zayed was genuinely popular with his own people, and such orchestrated, excessive adoration was unnecessary and only served to tarnish, as propaganda invariably does, his image and the UAE's reputation internationally.
Your diatribe against democracy is well noted, and by no means novel. Dictators, tyrants and oligarchs have been making some of those same points for Millennia. If you haven't already, I recommend you read Plato's "Republic" and Machiavelli's "The Prince," I dare say you will be engrossed. It's an interesting topic, but this is an article about the life of Sheikh Zayed, so I will not engage is a debate about systems of government.
I have taken no offense, and hope I have given none. My object was and remains to bring some balance to an article that was woefully lacking thereof. If you wish to leave bias and preconceived notions out, I can but applaud such an attitude.
Ultimately, it is for the readers to determine the alleged bias of the article. I am confident in my own neutrality, however. I think when people read the objective criticisms and statement of facts, along with the quite extensive cataloguing of Zayed's achievements and the praise which is justly laid at his mantle, they will have no cause for disapprobation. If they wanted to see bias, they need only click on the history tab to witness the instances of wanton deletion of any fact or opinion remotely critical of Zayed. Before I revised this article, it was nothing but a propaganda bulletin. This is Wikipedia, not the official UAE website.--A. S. A. 19:16, Jan 6, 2005 (UTC)
Edits by 126.96.36.199
A note about the edits of anonymous user 188.8.131.52: I have removed his/her injection of the naming of the Persian/Arabian Gulf and the dispute over the Islands. The Wikipedia Persian Gulf article itself has a disputed neutrality tag and there is no reason to drag that controversy into an article about Zayed. Furthermore, the blatant wording of this edit: " Iran's argument has always been based on historical facts" is clearly a POV. The article does not go into the merits of either claim to ownership of the islands, and the fact that Iran seized them from Sharjah's control is not disputed, even by Iran, and does not mean Iran admits "stealing" them. --A. S. A. 12:47, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)
Additional “memorial and legacy” publication
I would like to add ‘Zayed Centre for Research into Rare Diseases, Great Ormond Street Hospital’ after the sentence ‘Sheikh Zayed Professorship of Cardiovascular Diseases at the Mayo Clinic.’ in the “Memorials and legacy” section. Here are my supporting references:    
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
- "Zayed Centre for Research into Rare Disease in Children". gosh.org. Great Ormond Street Hospital. Retrieved 16 February 2020.
- "Zayed Centre for Research into Rare Disease in Children' receives first batch of patients in London". Emirates News Agency. WAM.ae. 24 October 2019. Retrieved 16 February 2020.
- "Zayed Centre for rare disease in children to open in July". gulfnews.com. 22 May 2019. Retrieved 16 February 2020.
- "Theyab bin Mohamed opens Zayed Centre for Research into Rare Diseases in Children in London". Emirates 24/7. WAM.ae. Retrieved 16 February 2020.