Talk:Sidekick

Merlin[edit]

Merlin isn't Arthur's sidekick; he's his mentor. There should be a big fat ^{[citation needed]} next to the wizard's place on the list. If anyone was Arthur's sidekick, it'd be his squire. The "knight and squire" dichotomy is probably a major influence on the whole sidekick concept, since that's essentially what Sancho Panza and Robin are. -- Poisonink (talk) 18:07, 20 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

talk show hosts[edit]

I think that it should also mention the famous sidekicks in talk show hosts, like Kevin Eubanks on Jay Leno for example.

I agree; I think that this page needs to be a disambiguation page leading to Sidekick (fiction) and Sidekick (entertainment) at the least. There are other products that have been named "Sidekick" that should be disambiguated as well. Telestylo 08:19, 3 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Would it be fair to describe Gabrielle as Xena's sidekick? I've seen very little of the show, unfortunately. Of course we don't really need more, there are plenty already. Tualha 23:20, 12 Dec 2003 (UTC)

etymology uncertain[edit]

It would seem that an older version of the OED may have had that origin of side kick (From an O. Henry story) however there is now not any definition or definitive etymology for "sidekick" in the OED. However several word sites have featured the word. And in OED, the work "kick" defines as a pocket.Sbwoodside 03:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Can anybody supply any other documentation on sidekick being used in reference to pick-pockets and kick being "the front side pocket of pair of trousers?" This origin seems counter-intuitive to the way sidekick has been used in this article.

Since language grows metaphorically out of the human condition I would like to offer some intuitions on sidekick. Sidekick was the term used for a close horse riding companion; close enough to kick the side of the other horse, sometimes causing the horse to vault. Sidekick moved into vaudeville where a lead stage actor "kicked" a companion actor for comic relief.

The jump into or from other forms of entertainment / literature seems to originate from a deeper human relationship that predates "pockets and trousers." Could Eve (out of Adam's side) have been the first sidekick and what a "kick" she gave to Adam!

I am very interested in the word sidekick and would appreciate any info grounding its origin in the written word. Where did the factual trail begin?

Thank you. --Pudgala2 23:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. The etymology borders on meaningless, as currently written. Further, it ignores old terms such as "kick" used in carpentry - one piece of wood used to support another, which I would have thought a likely candidate. If I can find anything more I will post it. But the current etymology looks spurious at best. --Yankoz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.26.65.150 (talk) 15:16, 25 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to find some reliable etymology on the term, and most sources say of unknown origin, and date the term to around 1906, with an earlier reference in 1903 from O. Henry. There are three links given in the article, of which I personally only trust one (The Word Detective).

I've dug up a few additional references, and will merge/re-write the Origins heading (into an Etymology heading), unless there is some serious disagreement. Bare URLS: [1], already mentioned in the article; [2], from the Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology; [3], the Online Etymology Dictionary (which I personally trust, but I am not sure how it would stand up to community scrutiny at WP:RS). [4] The American Heritage College Thesaurus, no etymology. [5], very questionable WP:RS, no real etymology, mostly a curiosity. Yngvarr (c) 11:32, 25 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Found this, http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-sid1.htm , most interesting is, author says kick as pocket is british and sidekick(er) as buddy is american and older.

Changes to the page[edit]

I've moved the list of sidekicks to a subpage - since it was bound to grow forever, as every Harry Potter and Pokemon fan in the universe added to it (though I did attempt to make it clear that it was a list of notable sidekicks).
I've created a disambiguation page for sidekick - since there are probably more uses for the term out there.
I think it's worth keeping the fictional and real sidekick pages together - since the root of the term is the same (and so is the essential meaning).

If anyone feels strongly that it's the wrong thing - please at least explain why before reverting. Thanks. Megapixie 07:39, 2 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Gay sidekick[edit]

While true that gay sidekicks can be used to emphasize the fact that the hero is masculine, this is not always right, nor correct, and should perhaps be expressed in a different manner.

Pro primo, gay is not the counterpoint to masculine, feminine is. Many times, the "flamingly open gay" is not homosexual (nor happy) at all, but instead, perceived as such by a heterosexually normative mind. Of course, the manners and the temper of the character is meant to emphasize the masculinity of the hero.

Pro secondo, when it is explicitly said that the sidekick character is homosexual, the hero is perceived as more straight, not more masculine.

--Hakeliha 09:45, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

well.. batman's robin is gay, no doubt about that.. --88.234.235.223 (talk) 00:09, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

edit warring by tendentious dynamic multiple IP user 78.145.39.214 and posse (not sidekick[s])[edit]

Since you can't read, I'll read it for you. The lead section says SOME and WELL-KNOWN. I will continue to remove your vanispamicruftisement additions of questionables such as Harry Potter and non-notables such as Fanboy. I've been here nearly five years, I'm not going anywhere.

Your edit summary of "Ron and Hermione are both internationaly [sic] well known sidekicks, as is Tails from the Sonic series who is as equally well known as Luigi from the Mario series." is dubious at best. Ron and Hermione are not sidekicks in the traditional sense. One is a sidekick, two makes a posse. The answer then is to remove Mario as well. OTHERCRAPEXISTS is never a good argument. Your next revert gets you reported. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 18:16, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Response to third opinion request:

I'm not sure which side I agree with more here, though on first blush, I'm leaning toward supporting the IP anon's more inclusive position. In any case, the two of you appear (as I see it) to be engaged in a plain old edit war. I'd advise both Kintetsubuffalo (Chris) and the IP anon to calm down ASAP and have a constructive, civil discussion — if possible, getting some other editors involved who are knowledgeable on this subject so that a credible consensus can form. If nothing changes and the accusations of vandalism and trading of incivilities continue, I'd be in favour of having both of you blocked for a while as a cooling-off measure (this would include semi-protecting the page, since a multi-IP-address anon is involved).

And as for the IP anon (assuming it is just one person showing up with multiple IP addresses), I would strongly recommend that you should get an account (or use your existing account if you have one) — to make it clear to everyone that a single editor is involved, and to avoid any possible suspicion of sockpuppetry. Although there is no policy requirement for editors to use accounts, you're likely to get more credibility and respect from the community in a dispute if you do use an account, especially if the alternative is that you'd be using multiple dynamic IP addresses.—Richwales (talk) 06:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion is okay, just not appropriate to overfill the lead paragraph. There are hundreds of thousands of sidekicks both in fiction and real life, this is a recurring theme in the monomyth, as old as humankind itself. Real and fictional examples including Indy Jones' Sallah, Chewbacca, Ed McMahon, Paul Shaffer and so on would be much more appropriate, as greater noteworthies, yet I don't add them to the lead precisely because they don't belong there. The IP is wheel-warring just for the sake of it, undoing good edits along with contested ones. Your blocking threat, by the way, is overkill for such an issue. Semi-protecting the page, however, is welcome. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 10:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Two Types of Sidekicks[edit]

I think sidekicks can be classified into two types: 1)The Robin: The young sidekick to an older hero/villian learning the ropes in order to become the hero of the next generation. 2)The Watson: The standard assistant to the hero/villain more commonly seen such as Spock, Tonto, or the famous Doctor Watson. Do you think this information should be added to the main article? Ztyran (talk) 17:17, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's a third type, the comic bumbling fool, typical of the B Westerns. Wschart (talk) 18:26, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article is degenerating into a list[edit]

One or two examples of well-known sidekicks should be sufficient. This article is degenerating into a list of sidekick, of which there are thousands of examples in just American popular culture. I recommend deleting this list as it serves no real purpose. Wkharrisjr (talk) 14:25, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If there are no objections over the next several days, I will be deleting the list of animated sidekicks are this adds nothing to the article.Wkharrisjr (talk) 17:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree completely. It looks like an anonymous user readded the list sometime in 2015 by restoring an old version of the page.[6] I will try to restore some of the lost edits in the coming days and also intend to redelete the list unless someone objects (and even if the list is kept, it should at the very least be pared back significantly). Aoi (青い) (talk) 07:33, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Real life[edit]

I think it is odd that almost all the examples given are fictional. The only exceptions from real life are the TV talk show hosts and (though some would disagree) Moses' Aaron. We do have heroes in real life -- do none of them have sidekicks? By "heroes", I suggest not merely war heroes, but any sort of leader, whether in the political or religious areas, or a famous activist. Perhaps even an entertainer -- would a backup band be considered a sidekick? The Supremes to Diana Ross, for example? As a side point, I'd suggest that a protege is NOT a sidekick -- Gandhi's Nehru, or Jesus' Peter, for examples. A sidekick is not merely a student or follower, but a companion. --Keeves (talk) 19:22, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

/Kobe Bryant is no fictitious sidekick from nobody/[edit]

Removed that racist and offensive reference from article. I will report it to Kobe Bryant himself, media and anti-racist organizations, in case any troll was thinking in rewriting it.200.75.126.97 (talk) 20:48, 5 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Passepartout[edit]

Hi there,

is a character like Passepartout in J. Verne's "Around the world in 8o Days" not a sidekick? The Hero brings his fiancee, too, what is she? And what about the characters around captain Nemo? IOW, what about "contrasting sidekicks"?

MVH,

T

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