Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Universities and colleges by nationality
- Listed for deletion on January 16, 2005. No clear consensus. Marked unresolved.
I'm moving all the "universities and colleges" articles and categories to the more standard "colleges and universities" form (see [1]). "Nationality" is also bad grammar when referring to institutions. I think we should move it to Category:Colleges and universities by country. --Neutralitytalk 06:47, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
- I agree with the change of "by nationality" to "in country". However, the change from "universities and colleges" to "colleges and universities" is not at all appropriate. Most other countries don't have "colleges" in the U.S. sense (or in any sense). Google is in this case likely to reflect American usage; any combination of these words in either order is likely to do that, as non-Americans would not mention "college" in the same breath as "university" in any case. Using "college" at all in the name of the category is U.S.-centric (or at the very least anglocentric), but I can accept that as long as "universities" stand first. It can then be understood as universities and other, variously named institutions of higher learning (whether they are called Fachhochschule, academy or something else). In any case, the change to "in country" is probably uncontroversial, but these changes should be discussed separately. / u p p l a n d 07:34, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- OK with changing "by nationality" to "by country", but "Universities and colleges" is much better than "Colleges and universities", IMO. older≠wiser 16:23, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)
- Agree with Uppland. At least for the Netherlands, college should preferrably not be used, as it is confusing: a college is a "high school", while an equivalent of American colleges could be named a 'hogeschool (literally "high school"). Looking at the article college, the situation in Belgium, France, and Germany is almost the same. So if you move Category:Dutch universities, call it Category:Universities in the Netherlands; don't mention high schools. Category:Universities and colleges by country is OK; "Colleges and universities" is worse. -- Eugene van der Pijll 17:44, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- What about using something like Category:Universities and institutions of higher learning? Then one can include French Grandes écoles, German Fachhochschulen, and whatever else there may be that doesn't really fit in under the term "university". The U.S. categories can still use the word "college". / u p p l a n d 19:33, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I like this idea, but I might simplify it down to Category:Institutions of higher learning. Whatever decision is made here, be sure to adjust the parent Category:Colleges and universities to match. —Mike 07:37, Jan 17, 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, I agree that shorter is better, or possibly Category:Institutions of higher education. / u p p l a n d 19:44, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I'm OK with Category:Institutions of higher learning by country. However, the parent category should also be Category:Institutions of higher learning and NOT Category:Colleges and universities.
That category had previously been Category:Universities and colleges and was unilaterally changed by Neutrality, 06:39, Jan 16, 2005, only moments after it was listed on this page!!!! What is the point of this page if you're not going to wait for comments before making changes? Very poor form, IMO.older≠wiser 13:09, Jan 18, 2005 (UTC)- I don't see any protests against this. Neutrality has not had anything to say. In his defense, I don't think he realized that the change would be controversial (I am assuming gender in the pronouns here and may be wrong...) I suggest we change to Category:Institutions of higher learning and Category:Institutions of higher learning by country and let the individual country categories be whatever is more suitable in each case, even though some degree of uniformity would perhaps be good. Is there anyone who would prefer Category:Institutions of higher education to "...learning" (I don't really care)? Does this need more discussion, to avoid somebody else getting upset by the change? It is a bit of work to do, I suppose. Can it be done with a bot? / u p p l a n d 13:15, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I didn't mean to sound quite so critical of Neutrality, I think I was just a little surprised and didn't have the whole story. I didn't realize that Neutrality had first started renaming Category:Universities and colleges to Category:Colleges and universities and then added this section about Category:Universities and colleges by nationality after someone raised questions about it. PS, I don't have a strong preference regarding "higher education" vs. "higher learning", though now that I think about it, "higher education" sounds a little less stilted to me, but I'm OK with either. older≠wiser 14:09, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)
- I don't see any protests against this. Neutrality has not had anything to say. In his defense, I don't think he realized that the change would be controversial (I am assuming gender in the pronouns here and may be wrong...) I suggest we change to Category:Institutions of higher learning and Category:Institutions of higher learning by country and let the individual country categories be whatever is more suitable in each case, even though some degree of uniformity would perhaps be good. Is there anyone who would prefer Category:Institutions of higher education to "...learning" (I don't really care)? Does this need more discussion, to avoid somebody else getting upset by the change? It is a bit of work to do, I suppose. Can it be done with a bot? / u p p l a n d 13:15, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I like this idea, but I might simplify it down to Category:Institutions of higher learning. Whatever decision is made here, be sure to adjust the parent Category:Colleges and universities to match. —Mike 07:37, Jan 17, 2005 (UTC)
- The proposed names could broaden the category to institutions that don't grant degrees, such as vocational schools. Is that the intention? If so, maybe it would be shorter to just call it "Post-secondary institutions". Maurreen 16:11, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I am very much in favor of this notion of renaming the categories to something else entirely. I would support either "Post-secondary institutions" or "Institutions of higher education". ("Higher learning" sounds awkward to me. I don't know why.) I've posted a note at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Universities, as well. -Aranel ("Sarah") 16:56, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I am not sure what the consequences would be of a broadened category, but it ought to be discussed somewhere and this may not be the right place. The Wikipedia:WikiProject_Universities is only sporadically active, though. / u p p l a n d 21:27, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)
- I am very much in favor of this notion of renaming the categories to something else entirely. I would support either "Post-secondary institutions" or "Institutions of higher education". ("Higher learning" sounds awkward to me. I don't know why.) I've posted a note at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Universities, as well. -Aranel ("Sarah") 16:56, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)