Talk:Haltija

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Finnish Folklorist's comments[edit]

Haltija refers to an owner, possesor, etc. Haltia instead refers to the mythical creature. The word "Haltia" can also refer to a witch or a wizard. There is a Finnish internet meme circling around about the traffic sign "Oleskelu vain haltian luvalla" - which can be translated as "Staying only with a permit from an elf", where the word "haltia" is written in broken Finnish. link here -> https://www.riemurasia.net/kuva/Kyltti/48055 .. This is how I have been taught in high school. In Finnish grammar "Haltija" (suffix -ja/-jä) is the nominative form of the word "Hallita". It is the 12. class nominative form in Finnish (out of 51 forms).

reference: http://kaino.kotus.fi/sanat/nykysuomi/taivutustyypit.php, https://fi.wiktionary.org/wiki/Liite:Suomen_sanojen_taivutustyypit

The word "Haltia" has no other meaning than the mythical creature. Tolkien lore does not make a difference here. I suggest the article should be corrected as "Haltia" instead of "Haltija". I personally think that the use of word "Haltija" is due to lack of education in grammar. edit: Written Finnish has changed a lot after it was crafted by Mikael Agricola. In the original (not refined) Finnish it might be possible to use both of the forms. In academic world the difference is clear.

- Matti — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:14BA:1FF9:A500:B847:B1AA:8D1B:B8FB (talk) 17:36, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[Untitled][edit]

In my understanding haltia is a mythical spiritual (or possibly physical) being inhabitating (and taking care of) something. That something might be a house, a forest or pretty much anything. Meanwhile haltija is a Finnish word for a possessor, user or caretaker of something (notice the similarity). It is used of people in everyday contexts. There are other similar words such as hallita (to rule over), hallitsija (a ruler (of land)), (pitää) hallussa ((to have, to keep) in possession), hallussapitäjä (one who has in possession, synonymous to haltija).

As far as I know, this is how these words are used today, but it's quite possible (link in Finnish) that in the past there has not been any difference between these words. They are pronounced in a very similar fashion.

--Lakefall 13:41, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Funny, I was going to give you a link to the very same article. I think it's kind of practical to use haltia for "Tolkienish" elves and such (as I edited into the article yesterday), and haltija for the creatures (kotitontut etc) in Scandinavian / Finnish mythology (of course, it has the other, everyday meaning of "possessor", too). In my experience, this is how these words are most commonly used.

However, I'm not an expert in the field, or the etymology of these words, and I think it would be nice to get someone like the author of that article to write for Wikipedia on these things. --Jonik 16:44, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

How did I happen to find the article? Let's all hail Google. Anyhow, what I think my Finnish teachers said and what many others seem to think is that the mythical being is called haltia. On the other hand, if these beings did exist, I could see why they could be called haltijas of whatever they are in charge of. Of couse that would be somewhat confusing as you wouldn't know whether auton haltija (possessor of a car) is the driver or the thingy getting mad at him, if he drives too fast over speed bumps. ;-) --Lakefall 19:41, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Apparently this subject has been discussed at http://13084.rapidforum.com/topic=100185996087 (in Finnish). --Lakefall 20:03, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I now have been agreeing for a while (after doing some more googling) that the correct form is indeed haltija. I also wrote a stub about the subject in the Finnish Wikipedia. I do not know whether that page should be language linked with this one, as I'm not sure if haltijas are always tonttus (when the word isn't used in reference to a human being). --Lakefall 16:28, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Haltija, haltia and halti all mean both alf/elf and owner. There really is no difference between the meanings of the three versions of the word. In modern translated fantasy books the translator may favour one form but it's not a definitive choice.

The Finnish haltia propably comes from Finnish valtias or hallitsija (both mean ruler). Some believe it was originally haltias (verb: hallita, to rule), just like valtias vallitsee (ruler rules). The fact that this entity is known in (similarly Fennic) Estonia as haldjas only supports this view. 84.248.154.130 14:44, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Haltija/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Good so far. Picture and sources will help. Goldenrowley 18:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Substituted at 18:02, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Article on Väki[edit]

I’m working on an article for väki. It is called Draft:Väki.

It goes more in depth on the supernatural power aspect. It would be nice if I had some help on this. CycoMa (talk) 18:04, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]