Talk:Sámi history

This article has no references at all and definitely needs some clean-up (Nov 2006)

Thanks for helping out to fix the article! :-) // Rogper 13:51, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I thought this article was very interesting, but the language needed revision. Some sentences were difficult to understand, so I apologize if I changed the meaning by mistake.

• I deleted the reference "See Laponia for antiquity history". That article is only about Sweden, and doesn't contain any antiquity history.
  • I had an idea to put things therein. //Rogper 13:38, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

• Is there a reference for the claim "Between about 1930-70, even harasments have been carried out. Especially the etablishment of laws that forbidden speaking the Sami language (contemporary with other Finnic languages.)"? I heard about Sami and Finnish being forbidden in schools. If this is what is meant it should be emphasized.
  • Yes, that was the aim. The Swedish Goverment doesn't seem to put out the laws that cover this (as well as other controversal laws that have existed), so I can't refer to the exact law currently. //Rogper 13:38, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

• I deleted the phrase "dwelting in the wilds and together with the animal enemies in a povertry, where children grew up without shelter over their heads, but all of them being positive", since I didn't understand the meaning. I hope someone can clarify it.
  • This was an attempt to give a short description of this text, Tacitus' Germania. //Rogper 13:38, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

• I deleted the phrase "fusspotting Odin (cf. Bieggagalles) due to his shamantic image". This should also be explained better. How does Odin enter the picture?
  • This has to be reworked if it will be added again. Odin derives from a finno-ugric figure, but as you can read as well here on Wikipedia, it rather shows a picture of him beeing a barbarian warrior in germanic mythology. Odin dominates on petroglyphs throughout Sweden and Norway. //Rogper 13:38, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

• I deleted the claim "All existing reindeers are tamed since a long time ago". This is true in Sweden, but in Norway there are still some wild ones.

• "From ca. 1800-1950 their culture was errously described by people living in the most southern regions of Sweden and part of Denmark." I let this stay, but it sounds strange. What part of Denmark is meant here? Bvalltu 18:47, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Sweden..

A bit unfair to say that the swedes took a less militant way. They sterilized loads of sami, I added it to the article. Source: A move we saw on a history lesson + swedish wiki. --DerMeister 08:47, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed the part about forced sterilization. According to this, only three sami were ever sterilized: http://www.regeringen.se/content/1/c4/28/64/212fc81a.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.11.59.130 (talk) 18:27, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments on Sami history

aprerogative It is interesting how scarce the documentation of Sami history actually is, in spite of the long lasting Sami culture. The conflicts between the states of Norway, Sweden and Finland and Sami interests are still present and this is probably the main reason of the ignorance and the continuous silencing of the Sami culture. The stories are simply not told and very few studies are actually done. For findings about older Sami culture the following link may be of interest: http://www.fifo.no/komsa/artikler/tidligmetalltid.htm (Language: Norwegian).

Very many pages have to be written on Sami history, not colored by ethnocentric and mistaken perceptions about the Sami people. Because of the resulting cultural stigmatization over the centuries, many Samis earlier denied and still today deny their origin. I hope that the Samis themselves will take the lead in researching, evaluating and telling their own story.

As in the 20th century, politics of today involving distribution of natural resources (as for instance restricted fishing quotas and the rights of using land) forces many Samis to emigrate their areas up north and migrate into the mainstream state culture.

The Sami parliament has no executive power; it does not enact laws and is only a consultative assembly i.e. a token or symbolic institution.

Early history

The sections "Origin" and "Before 15th century" are stubs and include no information at all on the modern research on these topics, which has been quite active in the past few decades. The section "Origin" repeats cliches of the genetically unique character of the Saami, without making any reference to the origins of the ethnic group itself.

Moreover, the following does not make sense: "The genetic origin of the "proto-Sami" is still unknown, though recent genetic research may be providing some clues. Nevertheless, it appears that the Sami represent an old European population." Proto-Sami is a linguistic term for the reconstructed common ancestor of the Sami languages, and it has nothing to do with genetics.

I am planning to expand these sections, but before I start with this I'd be glad to hear suggestions from others on what kind of information to include. --AAikio 06:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

AFAIK Proto-Sami usually means the hypothetical non-FU language spoken in northern Scandinavia before the arrival of Finno-Ugrians. The article misses the greatest and most interesting problem about the Sami: They are genetically very different from Finns, but their language is closely related to Finnish.

'Proto-Sami' most unambiguously does not mean that. It refers to the reconstructed ancestral language of the Saami languages. This usage is completely unanimously accepted in linguistics and it is a blatant termonological mistake to use it to refer to a non-FU language. Note, though that German Protolappisch has been used in this sense, but German "Proto-" does not translate as English "proto-" here; the German term for "Proto-Sami" is Urlappisch. --AAikio 06:11, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I have added links to different genetic studies and some historical and mytological research and records. The oldest of todays Saami mtDNA haplogroup indicate a age over 5 000 years but not older than 10 000 years, also most importantly its diversity is "homegrown" and not imported from elsewhere more recently suggesting a continuity beyond the Saami culture and within the time period of the Komsa culture, it has neither spread much outside todays tradiditional Sami territories. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by XiXaXo (talk • contribs) 14:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

Added content from Sami people

I added several paragraphs from the Sami people article, that may or may not have been in this article. Currently these are just pasted into various sections, but I will later do a cleanup of this article.Labongo 15:48, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Kautokeino Rebellion

In the 1840s, the Swedish-Sami minister, Lars Levi Laestadius, preached a particularly strict and puritan version of the Lutheran teachings. This led to a religious awakening among the Sami across every border, often with much animosity towards the authorities and the established church. In 1852, this led to riots in the municipality of Kautokeino, where the minister was badly beaten and the local tradesman slain by fanatic "crusaders". The leaders of the riots were later executed or condemned to long imprisonment. After this initial violent outbreak, the Laestadius movement continued to gain ground in Sweden, Norway and Finland. However, the leaders now insisted on a more cooperative attitude with the authorities.

This statement, while technically correct, must be fixed. First of all it fails to take into notion why religious fanatics attacked the "lensman"(a local "sheriff"). Furthermore, it mentions nothing about how the tradesman sells liquor (One of the reasons for the assault), how the local lensman is corrupt, and the general turmoil that was prescent in Kautokeino under that period. Frankly, this needs rewriting.

Racial discrimination

This part is a mess. I mean, look at it. Badly written English and very biased opinions, often going on a wild tangent. Yes, this section should be preserved as a section, but its contents really need some serious updating regarding grammar, sentence structure and perhaps some bias. Also, it needs a lot of love from sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.125.176.91 (talk) 14:03, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

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Removed Racial Discrimination Section

It uses very biased language, poor english, half of it is about the history of the Sami people which has nothing to do with racial discrimination, makes a lot of un-sourced claims and also uses pretty questionable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.226.155.116 (talk) 05:10, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

I see somebody's brought it back. I wouldn't mind if somebody was willing to clean it up a bit, but it's amazing unprofessional as it is.206.211.155.40 (talk) 05:27, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
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Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 23:48, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sámi Assembly of 1917 which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 11:53, 15 June 2020 (UTC)