Talk:Technical Death Metal

Majorly re-vamped

I fixed up this article a lot. I will be editting the band page a lot and be watching it if things are changed or added that are false. I'm also going to work on how to minimize the metalcore references.--Daevin 19:42, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Band list

DO NOT add no name bands. I am removing any band without proper linkage - why? Because this page gets badly spammed with false inofmration. And please don't change 'tech metalcore' to 'brutal technical death/grind' because I hate seeing that and usually people are just promoting their bands. --Ryouga 20:29, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

A lot of the bands you removed are very much technical death metal bands that I added because I know the style better than most. I'm not in any band, I've just spent nearly 5 years seeking out bands in the subgenre. You might want to do some actual research before you just delete stuff from other sites.--Daevin 06:12, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Suggestion for cleanup

Tech metal needs to be removed and all info needs to be divided between Technical Death Metal, Progressive Metal and Math Metal/core. Tech is more of a descriptive term while the three subgenres listed have an actual scene that have very few connections to the others, other then they are technical. Any thoughts?

I have cleaned it considerably. Edit out whatever you want, or improve it if you can. --Ryouga 01:33, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Mudvayne and The Dillinger Escape Plan...

...are not "tech metal".

It is widely agreed that Mudvayne are a nu-metal band. I don't care if they call themselves "math metal". (I believe) it was Korn who came up with the term "pimp rock"...and we all know what genre they belong to...

The Dillinger Escape Plan is metalcore. Certainly not "technical metal".

Whoever's idea it was to merge a few sections together obviously made a bad move, as it seems to have drawn much confusion to this article. -Danteferno

Mudvayne may be considered math metal (they do sometimes use time signatures other than 4/4 and 3/2), but they certainly aren't "tech". Gofur 19:25, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely agreed. I think even Math Metal is extremely pushing it, as only rarely do they break into unqiue and purposeful time sigs. And DEP is Hardcore... nuffsaid. Theintrepid 17:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

And whoa, whoa, whoa, what's EoS doing on there? Since when were they considered tech metal? Dillinger escape plan is vastly different from any other Metalcore band if you do wish to consider them so...

DEP is very technical. Definitly metalcore. I consider them tech metalcore or mathcore. There was a term thrown around abit that never caught on that I think fits well: chaoscore.--Daevin 06:38, 12 April 2006 (UTC) Being completely objectice, it's hard to see Dillinger on this page, but being associated with bands like As I Lay Dying is just as wack. Gatesofawesome!

Bands

I removed questionable and outright erroneous additions (probably to pad the admittedly rather meagre list) like:

Gordian Knots [sic]

Nile (it's more straight-forward modern brutal death metal)

Suffocation (old-school brutal death metal)

Psychotic Waltz (progressive metal)

I also added Behold... The Arctopus, one of the more important up-and-coming technical metal bands.

There are a few more I find a bit questionable, but they're fine for now until someone can add some more actual technical metal bands to this list. I realize it's difficult to really classify this genre, because the style-forming bands really didn't sound that similar. What they share isn't immediately recognizable but subtle. The epithet "technical" is also somewhat subjective, since in many times it's tied to *difficulty to perform*, and that varies between musicians (and what non-musicians think; see: people claiming Zero Hour to be technical, when in fact their music in actuality is very simple).

Dying Fetus is not a "tech metal" band. They are Death Metal with math/tech/hard core influences.

I would define technical metal as metal that incorporates a variety of styles or techniques to create unpredictable music. The technical term is most easily ascribed to death metal because it is most clearly defined in that genre. Progressive seems to be an inter-changable word for technical when speaking of the general metal genre. There are actually two distinct schools in death metal: avantgard and tempo. The tempo goes best with the main names in technical death metal like Cryptopsy or Necrophagist while the avantgarde style would fit best with bands like Cynic or Alarum that have a certain mellowness that maintains the technicality in a way unique to its style.--Daevin 06:50, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Show of skill

"It is characterised by a show of skill"

Can this be elaborated on? Is it that the focus of the music is often on a particular show of finesse (eg: a solo) or what? Right now it might be read as "Tech Metal is more skillful than other bands." Maybe just a little ambiguous; I'm out of my depth with this genre though (this wikipedia article is the first I've heard of it), so I'm refraining from editing. GeorgeBills 04:31, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

DEFINITIONS: Tech metal is characterized by both complex song structures as well as the technical prowess of the individual players. While many other genres involve skillful musicianship, tech metal is a deliberate showcasing of technical and compositional abilities within the boundaries of heavy metal (often with the aim of expanding these very boundaries). What makes a successful tech metal band is the ability to achieve this demonstration of skill while simultaneously creating memorable and sometimes even accessible music. The genre could be compared to the need in 19th century classical music to push the boundaries of the virtuoso performer while keeping musical expression intact. The avant-garde in both classical and jazz music has directly influenced this genre. The wide variety of influences on the genre are most likely due to the fact that these performers are often musical school alumni. The roots of technical metal are in bands like Rush and Yes. Thrash metal's emphasis on the complexity of guitar riffs led to the technical thrash of the late 80's/early 90's that would become a direct influence on tech metal. Influential Technical Thrash: Watchtower Seiges Even Forbidden Deathrow (later albums) Megadeth Coroner these band directly influenced bands like Atheist and Cynic.

ADDITIONS: Canada's Martyr have produced one of tech metal's most representative albums and deserve credit in this entry. "Warp Zone" is inparalleled in complexity.

Behemoth should be removed

They are not tech metal, they are black/death metal. Granted, some of their compositions are quite technical

Mudvayne is nowhere close to tech metal. They are Nu-Metal. Sure they might have some technical songs but it is no where close to bands like Red Chord and DEP.

Nu-Metal is non-existant, all bands that have been called Nu-metal, would be better classified as otherwise. Mudvayne, because of their jazz elements incorporated in the Bass guitar and drumming qualify as tech metal.

Cleanup

I've tagged this article as needing a cleanup. It's also been added to the Wikipedia:Cleanup list. The article is definitely not encyclopedia material, although it does have the potential. Pertinent information needs to be kept together and it needs to flow. Also, is there anything that can be done with that list? Perhaps it could be turned into a category. Categories have automatic alphabetization and automatic grouping. :) Cparker 02:45, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Not the same

Technical metal and math metal are not the same and should not be considered the same.