Talk:Guelph

Twin Cities

Why are there twin cities in Italy? could someone explain this? Edstamos (talk) 15:43, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

It's my understanding that Guelph attracted a sizable number of Italian immigrants in its early years, to work as stonemasons. The Italian community remains a significant presence in Guelph. Tunborough (talk) 18:41, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Image Unsatisfactory

I don't think the Commons image for Guelph places the city in the best light. Is there any way we could adjust it to something more postcard-worthy (preferably showing the church)? I can take the picture, if needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.225.10.54 (talk) 22:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Some of the images are irrelevant. Osprey over the bridge? The pictures look like they were taken by someone trying to convince readers that this truly is a gem of a town. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.132.12.186 (talk) 03:55, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Preferably not the church. The church scares the hell out of me, but not at all in the way I suppose it intends. Also it tends to leave me feeling sort of apathetically annoyed and angry. --Jammoe (talk) 04:12, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I changed the main image to one of mine, which I took last year in Autumn. I think this photograph puts the city in very nice light and includes both some of downtown and the church to give the viewer a good, overall impression of what the city looks like. I would like to know what do the authors think? Please let me know. Optionbooter (talk) 16:08, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I rather like it. It could benefit from a caption that says what street it's looking along, and the name of the church. PKT(alk) 23:05, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Good suggestion. I added a caption.Optionbooter (talk) 03:43, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

I concur, nice pic. I'd encourage you to add more pictures if you have them! --Natural R_X 16:20, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Cable Television, Wire Coat Hangers and Possibly Jockstraps

How's that for a section title? Fred Metcalf was undoubtedly one of the first people in the cable industry in Canada, but there's no way Guelph had the first system in North America. If you check out the references below you'll see that it's unlikely that it's even the first system in Canada, London Ontario, Montreal and Vancouver are the most likely locations for the very first in this country.

Cable History

http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blcabletelevision.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multichannel_television_in_Canada

Easton, Ken (2000) Building an Industry; A History of Cable Television and its Development in Canada, Pottersfield Press, ISBN:189590028X

Wire coathangers were invented by Albert J. Parkhouse, born in St. Thomas Ont., who later worked for a firm in southern Michigan where he was employed when he developed them.

http://www.vcnet.com/garym/hanger/hanger.html

Requires TIFF viewer: http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?patentnumber=822981

I'm very dubious about the claim for Guelph as being the home of the invention of the jockstrap in the 1920's as well, however I left it alone until I can find a better source for the information that appears below.

http://www.shockdoc.com/news/cpHistory.html

User:Deconstructhis

Source

The source of this information is from the City of Guelph and the Guelph Museum. This information was and is recognized by many people both in and outside of Guelph. It is like the lightbulb, invented by Canadians but the patent was sold off to an American.

Even in the documentry about Mr metcalf, it was one of the first in North America.

http://www.guelph.ca/living.cfm?itemid=70031&smocid=1618

I'm not doubting that the information that appears here has "a" source, I'm doubting its validity in this case, which is why it's never a good thing to quote only one source. For instance this statement:

"Guelph was one of North America's first cable TV systems. Fred Metcalfe created McLean Hunter Television and their first broadcast was Queen Elizabeth's Coronation in 1953."

I challenged and changed it in its initial form because it said flatly that Guelph "was the home of North America's first cable TV system". I'm not aware of any reputable source that will substantiate that statement. If it exists, I would like to see the citations. In terms of the second part of the statement, which you chose to put back in, that Mr. Metcalfe "created McLean Hunter Television and their first broadcast was Queen Elizabeth's Coronation in 1953", I'm at a complete loss. Mr. Metcalfe started 'Neighborhood TV' in Guelph in 1952, Queen Elizabeth's coronation was June 2, 1953:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom

I don't understand in what sense that the "broadcast" could be regarded as their "first", since 'Neighborhood TV' had already been distributing signals for circa one year at that point. In terms of Mr. Metcalfe having "created" McLean Hunter, to the best of my knowledge Metcalfe sold his cable holdings to McLean Hunter sometime in the mid 60's and later on headed the organization in an executive capacity in the 70's and 80's. I'm not trying to be a pest. I'm simply suggesting that the whole idea of Wikipedia (in its ideal form at least) is to provide information that can be relied on by the general reader for veracity. In my opinion, just because the City of Guelph or a local museum says something on its website doesnt necessarily mean its true. If you're truly interested there are some good leads in the following:

http://www.broadcastinghistory.ca/cable_services/TheHistoryOfCableTelevision.html

(you may have to cut and paste that link to make it work)

and

Easton, Ken (2000) Building an Industry; A History of Cable Television and its Development in Canada, Pottersfield Press, ISBN:189590028X

User:Deconstructhis

Neighbourhood Television Ltd. in Guelph in 1952 was the first registered cable system in Canada. Hence, it was the home of North America's first cable TV system (Incorporated)

The source information has documents, video and other resources that do prove all the things claimed on the list. if you have a problem with that, contact them! museum@guelph.ca

one last comment from me

Personally, I think that the city of Guelph Ontario already has a history much too rich and interesting all on its own, without having to bother with "stretching" historical origin claims like what appears to be going on here. To each their own I guess. Incidently, by the end of 1952, there were already approximately 70 cable television systems in operation in North America. As Wikipedia develops I think it's going to be quite interesting to see a lot of long held local 'invention origin' tales held up to the light and discussed in both the U.S. and Canada. I'm sure there will be lots of "ruffled feathers" yet to come.  :)

deconstructhis

Geography, Climate Info

Need someone to take the temp. info and put it in chart form.

Done. The location is awkward because the infobox is long and floating over the article. If the Intro, History, Climate, and Topography sections are lengthened, it should position more appropriately.Thorlius (talk) 17:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Walmart battle is over

The walmart battle is over and walmart won.

kinda

It is worth noting that while walmart did establish a store, the council that approved the bylaw was vitually all defeated in the subsequent city council elections. cduke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.40.1.129 (talk) 19:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Map?

What's happened to the map? Lupin 04:00, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe any map was uploaded yet, a map should be uploaded with the name Guelph,_Ontario_Location.png. The template just adds the option to put the map in. There is an example map on Toronto, or Windsor, Ontario that I made. BCKILLa 09:42, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Guelph is not on the 401

Although you can see signs for interchanges for Guelph along Hwy. #401, the city itself is not. To reach Guelph from the 401, one must travel up Hwy. #6 for about 0.5hr and pass through the Puslinch Twp. in Wellington Co. before you reach the city limits. See Ontario provincial highway 6. --chris 20:45, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

John Galt

John Galt was over the Canada Company, but he was a Scotsman. The article as currently written leads to an incorrect inference.

John Galt, originally from Scotland, was superintendent of the Canada Company in its first years. I have revised the article to include more about him and the Canada Company.Peter K Burian (talk) 19:05, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

WG Portal

I didn't re-add it, but I was going to revert...however I did a whois and it's registered to the city of guelph. So that means it is community run I believe.

Blog Guelph

Running a WHOIS on blogguelph.com shows that it's registered to a private corporation. If it was City of Guelph-run, I could certainly justify keeping a link here, much like the Wellington-Guelph Community Portal. However, Wikipedia is not a repository for every single Guelph-based website on the Internet - only the official ones. Therefore, I can't justify keeping a link to that site on this page. Andy Saunders 20:38, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Concerning John Kenneth Galbraith

He was an undergraduate of the Ontario Agricultural College, which is in Guelph. I don't think that this sort of temporary residence should mean he should be included as a "son of Guelph".

Misc. Facts about Guelph

Has been modified to avoid copyright problems!

Nice to see some effort at avoiding the copyright violations, but I think they're a little too similar, and not very essential to the article, so I removed them. See below. --Padraic 16:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Slavery??

"And in 1882 Guelph became the first North American settlement to abolish slavery." Huh? Could the date be wrong? Or is this some sort of vandalism? Blotto adrift 17:07, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Slavery

This is vandalism. Guelph did not abolish slavery in 1882, and if it did, it would not have been the first jurisdiction to do so

According to the 2006 census (which was released March 13, 2007), the population of Guelph is only 114,943, and not the 125,00 stated in the article. Please make this correction.

Wellington County

What is the relationship between Guelph and Wellington County? This article says its the seat of Wellington County, but the Wellington County article says Guelph is a seperate entity except as a census division. Category:Guelph, Ontario is also a subcategory of Category:Municipalities in Wellington County, Ontario. bobanny 05:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

The headquarters of Wellington County are in the city of Guelph, but the city of Guelph is technically not under the county's jurisdiction in the same manner that other regional townships are (e.g. Minto, Mapleton, Puslinch). The county and the city have to come to special arrangements to share certain joint services (ambulance, senior citizens homes). The mayor of Guelph is a member of the county council (as are mayors of all the other townships), but I do not know when Guelph was severed from the county's governance (if it was ever a part of it). Someone in the city or county offices would probably be able to explain this better.

The mayor of Guelph does not sit on county council. There are a few joint committees, to oversee the joint services you mention, but that's the extent of it. Tunborough (talk) 18:45, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Inclusion of "news blogs" in article

Wikipedia's external links policy states, under "Links to be avoided": "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority." Who is the "recognized authority" behind The Fountain Pen and Inside Guelph? I do not feel that these sites are suitable for inclusion into Wikipedia at the present time; we should discuss the merits of the individual sites here prior to their inclusion. Also, to the contention that "Toronto has online media" -- Toronto also has about 30 times more people than Guelph does. Andy Saunders 03:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

In terms of recognized authority - The Fountain Pen is a registered company under BBS 42, a web media company and has been around since about 1999. Inside Guelph is published by Royal Rivers Media Group, which is based on and simlar to the recognized authorities like: Freshdaily which is Canada's first national blog network publishing News and Information Blogs in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal. Torontoist is published by a company called Gothamist LLC out of New York and have dozens of simlar news blogs around North America and the globe. Paved.ca is published by the Toronto Star. Spacing Wire is published by Spacing Magazine.

In terms of 'size' of Guelph, that seems like an sorry excuse. The city may be a smaller then Toronto, but almost every city out there has some form serious weblogs and thus should be published in a list of media on Wikipedia. As it says: "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority." However, under the Toronto media listings it says: "This section is for major serious weblogs, such as those written by journalists, devoted to coverage of Toronto affairs. Please do not add personal weblogs of Torontonians that do not tend to meet these criteria, weblogs peripherally related to Toronto, etc." As I have stated above, both of these Guelph Weblogs are published in Guelph and by recogized outlets simlar to the ones elsewhere and should remain. 74.123.61.133 19:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

guelphsocialjustice.org

Why has the link to guelphsocialjustice.org been removed several times? The website is a university initiative, and works as an inclusive alternative media source. It features a wiki and a blog. I would think people involved in wikipedia would be more open to the inclusion of the site. It isn't a personal blog; it's a community blog. "SNAP Guelph" is just a bunch of pictures of wealthy people attending events, and an excuse to get advertising dollars. If you want to talk about "balanced news," let me deconstruct the Mercury for you... why is wikipedia working to promote "recognized authorities" in the first place? Who's doing the "recognizing"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.114.210.173 (talk • contribs)

However, Guelph Social Justice is a group that focuses on social justice activism, which is seen a "politically motivated" site under Wikipedia rules. A good example of a Weblog is BlogTO is, which offer a broad and non political look at life in Toronto. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.123.61.133 (talk • contribs)

Okay. I would say that there is no de jure Wikipedia recognition of news sites. However, there is de facto recognition. In my opinion, the general population would be willing to tell others "I read in the Mercury/Tribune/SNAP Guelph/Ontarion that this is taking place." People give recognition to a news source when they themselves are willing to use it as a source of news and information. The weblink to Guelph Social Justice was originally placed here by a representative of the site, which gave the impression that they were trying to use Wikipedia to promote their site, something which is categorically frowned upon. Therefore, the link was removed. If Guelph Social Justice gets large enough, such that multiple established Wikipedia users can agree on its importance to providing Guelph news, or it is provided some official status by the City of Guelph, I would have absolutely no qualms regarding its inclusion on this page. Until then, I have major qualms. Andy Saunders 16:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Population

I am nearly certain that the population of Guelph is over 120,000. I don't live in Guelph anymore but I can recall coming into the city and seeing a population over 120,000. The number edited by Polaron from the 2006 Statcan site just seems like it is too low. I know it is statcan and their numbers usually are considered correct, but 114,000 seems way too low considering all the growth the city has undergone in just the last 5 to 10 years. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong but I have to believe that statcan got this one wrong. --JackHanlon 18:50, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Name

Anyone know where the name of this place comes from? Is it a native group? TheTyrant 01:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)TheTyrant

Good question. We'll just have to look this up in Wikipedia: "The town was named to honour Britain's royal family, the Hanoverians, who were descended from the Guelfs, one of the great political factions in late medieval Germany and Italy, and the ancestral family of George IV, the reigning British monarch, thus the nickname The Royal City The directors of the Canada Company, Galt's employers, had actually wanted the city to be named Goderich, but reluctantly accepted the fait accompli." (see history section)

Oh, well. There is a Goderich, Ontario after all. About the same era, a bit north and west. Pustelnik (talk) 01:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I for one believe that Galt clearly intended the name as a double entendre; on account of Berlin (now Kitchener) being such an ascendant centre of Germanic settlers. (Guelph being coined as the Colonial English equivalent of the Italian Guelphs -- loyal to the Crown of the English Welf --- in opposition to the strong German city rivals; i.e. the predominantly Germanic / 'Ghibelline' citys of the Holy Roman Empire.)

Remember: this was a bit of a low and uneasy point in popular sentiment towards the royal family; George the third was generally held responsible for the loss of the American colonies, and both he and George the IV were unpopular.

At the very least this double entendre (re Berlin/Kitchener's Germanic settlers) is the most obvious reason why the more obscure name "Guelph" was chosen rather than the more obvious, "Hanover". (Hanover would have been a clearer nod to the royal family -- BUT also to their Saxon-Germanic ancestry...)

[ps see the Guelphs_and_Ghibellines, to learn about the wider, popular use of the name Guelph, re Holy Roman, anti-German city states.]

Seipjere (talk) 20:13, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Quality Rating

I gave this article an initial quality rating of "B", but I wouldn't argue with the lower rating of "Start". There is a reasonably strong level of content here, but the article could use more inline referencing and documentation of sources. PKT (talk) 22:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Padraic and others for your work to improve the article. I took the liberty of moving the 1855 map b/c it was causing a chunk of whitespace under the 'History' heading in my browser today, even at full size. PKT (talk) 16:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Paul Fendley

Is there a place for Paul Fendley in this article? [1]... He was a top NHL prospect who led the Guelph CMC's Jr. A hockey team to the 1972 Centennial Cup. He was a local boy and he died as a result of an on-ice incident in the final game of the national championship. As far as I know he is a part of Guelph folklore and is still recognized as an important part of Guelph's history or at least sports history... any thoughts? DMighton (talk) 07:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Recent deletions

After realizing how much of this article was plagiarized from the City of Guelph history page, its trivia page, and the Guelph entry in the Canadian Encyclopedia, I've deleted many parts of this article. If I deleted any original work by fellow editors, I apologize; I'm just erring on the side of caution. Please feel free to re-add (and remember that citations are sorely needed!). --Padraic 14:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Rename page

There is a proposal to rename this page. Please discuss it here. (Talk:Guelph (disambiguation)) Mindmatrix 16:07, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Demographics

What on earth is going on with the demographics? The population column adds up to ~151 000, and the percentages exceed 100%. Can someone clarify what is going on here? --Natural R_X 03:09, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Simple. If your mother was Irish and you father was Italian, you would answer Yes to both. Secondarywaltz (talk) 03:48, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Names of the neighborhoods of Guelph

Do we actually have any? like look at the neighboring towns like listing them would be good like Pine Ridge, Westminster Woods, Blueberry Hill, Watson Creek, Starwood, etc, would adding the neighborhood names be something to add to the article ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.50.215.119 (talk) 02:48, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

• • I decided to do this, when new housing developments go up they put a name of the neighborhood, they also name the area IE Grange and Cityview named Blueberry Hill, there is a map at the Home Hardware at Grange and Victoria Plaza, that also has names of some of the neighborhoods. I really should check it out and add to it. 174.88.82.33 (talk) 00:09, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
• I think there could be some debate over whether these are neighbourhoods or subdivisions. Most of the listed neighbourhoods are developer-named subdivisions. Do we count these as neighbourhoods. As a lifelong Guelph resident, the two listed neighbourhoods which I recognize by name as organically named are Brant and Exhibition Park. Guelph's oldest neighbourhood is commonly known as The Ward (officially, St. Patrick's Ward) and all electoral wards are numbered. Where do we draw the line between a subdivision and a neighbourhood? Perhaps we should look at neighbourhood associations as a way to distinguish. Without any citation or substantiation, I would question whether or not this section as it currently is belongs in the entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.69.13.100 (talk) 22:41, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

• • I'll research a bit more but it definitely is of interest, Brooklyn and College Hill are heritage districts, and Farmham and Hamilton Corner are amalgamated — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.88.82.33 (talk) 18:11, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Where's Ronny?

Please add Ron Asseltine to the People Section. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Asselstine Not only was he an NHL Ref, but was a member of Satan's Choice for many years. And my neighbour :) Roan Art (talk) 15:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

File:Guelph skyline night-23-11-.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Absurd deletion request IMO. I have responded with Speedy Keep. --Natural R_X 19:13, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

From the early responses it looks like an easy keep... if by some unholy chance it does get deleted I'll personally do my best to recreate the shot myself. Tabercil (talk) 19:34, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Notable music

The music section has been edited many times now with the addition or removal of a band or two. I think it all sprouts from "notable bands including..." when we haven't even defined what is notable, or if specific bands should be included at all. Before this goes further, I have removed the bands. Please discuss so we can gather some consensus. Cheers. --Natural R_X 14:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Photograph needed

Hello! Is there a Wikipedian in or around Guelph who could take a photograph of the new Guelph City Hall and upload it to Wikimedia Commons. It seems odd that we do not have an image of the city's new seat of government. Cheers, --Skeezix1000 (talk) 15:18, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Wrong flag?

The flag used on this page is this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guelph#/media/File:Flag_of_Guelph.svg but I'm pretty sure this is the actual flag: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Guelph_City_Hall_cropped.jpg (you can see it better in this picture from the Mayor's blog: http://mayorsblog.guelph.ca/2008/11/11/rembrance-day-recognizing-service/). I haven't found any actual photos of the one that's currently being used on this page. Where did it come from and can anyone confirm which is the correct flag? -- PB54 21:45, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

I drew File:Flag of Guelph.svg, which was based on File:Guelph_flag_1.JPG. That flag appears to be lower resolution, highly artifacted version of the file that was on FOTW at the time. Since then FOTW have updated their site and the now consider the flag you posted the official flag. They are calling the other flag "Flag of the citizens of Guelph". I will try to make the correct flag in a couple of days. --Svgalbertian (talk) 15:54, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

 Done --Svgalbertian (talk) 21:57, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

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Lead: should unemployment and crime be included?

At one time both levels were at record lows in Guelph but for some time now, crime and unemployment levels have been average, or higher than average, for Southern Ontario. (e.g. Oct. 2017, unemployment is at 5.9% vs. 5.1% for Kitchener-Waterloo).

I updated the lead with current info, but wonder if there is any value now to including either topic in the lead. The very low numbers did not last for very long, so are they historically significant? IMHO: It's old news now and not significant enough for the lead, in my view.

I propose that we delete the discussion of the temporarily low crime and unemployment rate from the lead and make sure it's covered in the body of this article. Peter K Burian (talk) 14:21, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

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Two identical pictures

In the article, there are two identical pictures, with different captions, concerning Allan's mill.Ekisbares (talk) 13:53, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Good catch, Ekisbares. I removed the second one. Peter K Burian (talk) 14:58, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

A long project

The Old Quebec Street Mall was a street built in the 1800s that was enclosed and covered; that work was completed in 1984 and the street has become an indoor shopping mall.

Okay—it didn't really take over 100 years to build a shopping mall, did it? (Even if 19th-century people had some idea what a shopping mall would be?) I suspect "that work" refers to its conversion into one. – AndyFielding (talk) 11:30, 10 January 2023 (UTC)