Talk:Frances Burney

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

England Low‑importance

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women's History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Women's history and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women's HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Women's HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Women's HistoryWomen's History articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women writers Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled[edit]

Hello, have I missed something or isn't there any analytical literary criticism of this novel cited in the references? I'm sure I've read that it's notorious for the one dimensional characters, only snobbish, or vulgar, or good, or whatever? 86.171.119.189 (talk) 16:06, 29 March 2014 (UTC) Kinraid 03-29-2014[reply]

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.171.119.189 (talk) 12:41, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Which novel are you talking about? They do vary in quality. Bmcln1 (talk) 21:14, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I should have said, 'Evalina'. I've heard it's supposed to be the best, but didn't E M Forster point out the flat characters in that? It'd take me a while to track down the reference, though. Kinraid 31.53.151.168 (talk) 19:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC) 03.31.14[reply]

I agree that Evelina is the best. Have you read the page on it? It seems to me to cover the book quite well. If you want to include E. M. Forster's critical comment you will need a reference.Bmcln1 (talk) 20:30, 31 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That was the whole thing, I read the page, but unless I'm being obtuse - not impossible _ I couldn't find any discussion of the shortcomings of the work - only an uncritical exposition of the work, list of characters, etc. I thought a couple of remarks such as 'Johnson [and some quote about wherever he said it] greatly admired the work, as did So and So, but some modern critics (Forster and so on) find the characters stereotypes, find some of the comic scenes unpleasant, etc) would improve the article? For that reason,it doesn't seem balanced to me as even Shakespeare is criticized - unless I missed something? I see there are references to books on the work which no doubt take on some of these issues, but I thought it would add to the article to have some opinions quoted in the main body. I can dig out the references to works that take on some of the defects in the works and in 'Evalina', though it'll take some research; that's why I was hoping the experts would do it, as they must have read a fair bit of the criticism of her stuff and know where to find the references, whereas I've only read a bit? [Kinraid 86.164.105.35 (talk) 10:26, 1 April 2014 (UTC) 04.1.14[reply]

Definitely spelt Evelina, not Evalina, if you want to Google up references. I agree that comments about her work from literary names such as Samuel Johnson and E. M. Forster would be good if properly referenced. I think they might cover various works and be most useful on the Frances Burney page rather than any pages for individual works. I look forward to seeing the results. Bmcln1 (talk) 19:44, 1 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks; I've got a mental block about the spelling, 'Evelina'it is; I'll look them up; it might take a little while but I'll be back in time. 86.135.126.218 (talk) 17:38, 3 April 2014 (UTC)Kinraid 04.03.14 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.126.218 (talk) 17:35, 3 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Editing Help[edit]

I am attempting to change the name of the Fanny Burney page to Frances Burney.

According to the Wikipedia Help Page I must do the following:

"With the correct page displayed, click on the "Move" tab near the top of the page. You'll be asked for a new name for the page, and given the option to also move the page's talk page. NOTE: Unless you know what you're doing, it's safest to say yes."

I cannot understand what these instructions entail, and I wonder if there is help available through the Talk pages?

Thanks

What's in a name?[edit]

I am bringing this up here because the subject has the potential to be inflammatory so I don't want to just do an edit without explanation. But, with reference to the first line of this article, Burney is no longer "usually" known as Fanny. "Usually" implies something ongoing and that is not the case here: a glance at anything published about her in the last decade or two would make that clear. Certainly she was known as Fanny to her circle, and certainly she was known as Fanny to scholars until fairly recently. But without getting into a discussion of what using a diminutive of her name in a professional context may mean -- for there be dragons -- the fact remains that the way most of the scholarly community now names Burney has changed, just as it is now common usage to regularize the names of women authors in general (to drop the "Mrs."; to drop the husband's full name; &c). Some may deplore such changes and they might have a point -- the argument to respect the name by which the author was known in her own time is a reasonable one -- but an encyclopedia should reflect the actual terrain, surely?

SO. I would like to throw this out here, and depending on any ensuing discussion, propose to edit the line back to read "also known as." It seems the most neutral formulation. scribblingwoman 18:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I agree...("also known as Fanny") Keep sleeping, little dragon!--Flammingo^Parliament 22:00, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Beauty! scribblingwoman 23:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shouldn't the page be called "Frances Burney" to reflect recent gender conventions? Awadewit ^Talk 04:23, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please ignore. I clicked on a link that took me here that said "Fanny Burney." Sorry. Awadewit ^Talk 04:24, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have to say I find it weird that any successful published author should appear in a Wikipedia article under a different name from the one she chose to publish under. Mhkay (talk) 16:01, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

LOW importance?[edit]

The most important British female writer of the 18th century. One of the great British diarists, with the position of women as a recurrent theme. Ah well. Bmcln1 (talk) 18:32, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bildungsroman blues[edit]

Someone noticed the ambiguity of my sentence about the novel as a Bildungsroman. It was unintentionally written to imply that the novel genre did not feature many female characters at the time. I meant the Bildungsroman genre. Thank you for keeping in the point I wanted to make about the Bildungsroman and for catching the error. I tried rewriting the sentence so that it is clear this time. Dlaitinen (talk) 21:10, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Frances Burney. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070303120622/http://www.mytimemachine.co.uk/operation.htm to http://www.mytimemachine.co.uk/operation.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 06:47, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Frances Burney. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:40, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]