Talk:At bat

Definition[edit]

At bat is defined in terms of plate appearance, and plate appearance was defined in terms of at bat--thus we have a circular definition. Seems to me that place appearance is the more fundamental term, even though it is less commonly used. I think my modifications to plate appearance take care of it. Did I miss anything? --Locarno 21:45, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Errors and At Bats[edit]

If the batter reaches first base on an error by a fielder, does that count as an 'at bat'? If not, the article needs to be updated to reflect that. WilliamKF 23:44, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently, the answer is yes, it is an at bat and in computing stats like batting average it is as if you got an out. WilliamKF 23:55, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This article seems to be gender biased. NorthernThunder 21:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So how many does a player have in one year, typically? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.169.94 (talk) 21:41, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article Title[edit]

Shouldn't it actually be "At-bat"? See here, although other references on MLB's site use "At bat" too...still, I think "At-bat" is more correct. Any opinions? Frank | talk 00:50, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I too think it should be at-bat since ESPN, MLB.com, etc. always have it that way. Jackal4 (talk) 05:53, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

I have requested that At bat be moved to At-bat. Jackal4 (talk) 04:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Frank | talk 12:24, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the published official rules don't use the hyphen (they generally refer to it as a time at bat, but there is at least one instance where it referred to simply as an at bat) (see http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/10_the_official_scorer.pdf , 10.02 (a) (1), 10.02 (c) (3), 10.03 (c), etc.). MisfitToys (talk) 23:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, that link does use the hyphen when referring to the event as a noun (an "at-bat"). The references to "time at bat" seem to be speaking to the passage of time, as in his time at bat, using "at bat" as a verb. When referring to the statistic, they refer to an "at-bat". Checking the refs provided above, they are all verb usages; search for "at-bat" in that same document for references to the event as a noun, which is what this article refers to. Frank | talk 01:20, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the stat is usually referred to as a time at bat, such as when the official scorer is required to count them for each player. It's all actually kind of puzzling, as the print edition never uses the hyphen. MisfitToys (talk) 23:52, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Can you cite references for "usually referred to as a time at bat"? I've been looking at box scores for 30-odd years and I've never seen it as anything other than "ab" for "at-bat". And, while I agree there is some variance in newspaper articles, which would be OR even if it supported one side or the other, the official rules you cited above are pretty clear. The event is an "at-bat", while the act of doing it - the verb - is "at bat" or - as you said - "time at bat". This article refers to the event - the "at-bat". Frank | talk 00:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
When I said it was usually referred to as a time at bat, I was referring to its usage in the rulebook (where it is first mentioned in 10.02 (a) (1)); I'll also note that there are other odd (and atypical) uses of hyphens in the online rulebook, such as in the term "earned-run average". (How could "time at bat" be regarded as a verb? The rule book states that "no time at bat shall be charged when..." and "the total of the teams' times at bat"; that's pretty clearly a noun, and the name of the stat.) There are other reference sources that use "at bat", such as Baseball-Reference.com [1]; I'll have a look tomorrow at some of the officially licensed references, such as Macmillan, Total Baseball and The Sporting News Record Book, as well as some SABR materials. MisfitToys (talk) 01:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, here's a rundown of various sources:

-The Official Baseball Rules (as codified and adopted by the Professional Baseball Official Playing Rules Committee), published by The Sporting News through at least 2005 (the last year I have available), and the Official Rules of Major League Baseball, published by the commissioner's office through Triumph Books in the late 1990s, never used the hyphen.

-The Macmillan Baseball Encyclopedia (MLB's official encyclopedia through the 1990 edition) always used "at bats", from the first edition (1969) through the final tenth (1995).

-Total Baseball (MLB's official encyclopedia beginning with the 1995 edition) used "at-bats" beginning with the first edition (1989), but dropped the hyphen beginning with the sixth edition (1997); the final seventh edition was in 1999.

-The official American League Red Book and National League Green Book (which I believe both ceased publication after 2003) did not use the hyphen at all (from the late 1940s) until the AL began using it in 1987; the NL book never used it.

-Baseball-Reference.com does not use the hyphen.

-The 2005 ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia did not use the hyphen.

-The ESPN Sports Almanac (which was the Information Please Sports Almanac prior to 1998) has never used the hyphen since 1990; the Sports Illustrated Sports Almanac also has never used the hyphen since 1992.

-The various annual publications of The Sporting News (Baseball Guide, Baseball Register, Baseball Record Book) appear to have used the hyphen from the late 1940s until they ceased publication in 2005/2006 (the 1941 Sporting News Record Book varies, using the hyphen in some places but not others).

-The SABR Baseball List & Record Book (2007) uses the hyphen.

-The Elias Baseball Analyst did not use the hyphen from 1985-1989, but did use it from 1990-93.

-Glancing through various Bill James publications such as the Baseball Abstract, it seems he generally has not used the hyphen (the 1988 edition of the Great American Stat Book used the hyphen in its glossary, though the 1987 edition did not); James rarely included a glossary of the most basic terms, and when "at bat" appeared in the text of various essays, it was not hyphenated.

So, we have something of a hodgepodge, though I'll note that the hyphen was rarely used in those sources regarded as being closest to official status - never in the published official rules through at least 2005, in the officially recognized encyclopedias (except for the 1995 edition of Total Baseball), in the official NL Green Book, or in the official AL Red Book through 1986. Use of the hyphen has been most prominent in the Red Book from 1987-2003 and in the various TSN publications (except for the official rules). MisfitToys (talk) 18:34, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge from Plate appearance[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result was keep. --
— Ω (talk) 05:33, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article Plate appearance covers much of the same material, and the distinction is important to both discussions. It would seem that it would be better to have this article about At bat with a section that discusses Plate appearance. In addition the Plate appearance article is sadly in need of expertise. The article Plate appearance does acknowledge that the terms are often used inter-changeably except where an at bat is incomplete. --Bejnar (talk) 19:44, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If a merge is ever to be done, it should go the other way. Plate appearance covers more territory, in that an at bat is a type of plate appearance. -Dewelar (talk) 15:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

end of game out[edit]

I don't think the article mentioned the scoring of a batter's appearance when a runner on third steals home to win the game (a walk-off stolen base). I'm guessing this would not be an at-bat or plate appearance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.184.73.156 (talk) 16:49, 12 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Single season record[edit]

I understand this refers to the single regular season record, no? In 2023, including postseason, Marcus Semien had 746 at bats.

Perhaps this distinction should be made in the article, because as per the Wikipedia definition in the Major League Baseball schedule, the MLB season schedule is made up of both the regular season plus the postseason. 109.232.208.13 (talk) 09:57, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]