Talk:Terrorism in Saudi Arabia

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Untitled[edit]

This list is something I have been compiling for a while on my home computer. It is from the Saudi press and is quite incomplete. There are two reasons for this. First the official press here can be quite coy when they want to be, second I sometimes forget to make entries. [[Paul, in Saudi 04:53, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)]]

First item[edit]

"National Guard collusion is suspected", any source? - Eagle 17:55, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC)

Do you realize you are the first person I know of to visit this page? In any case, you may delete this comment if you like, it is a rumor that we exapts take as an article of faith. It is worth noting that the company in question is now guarded by real honest-to-goodness Americans. [[Paul, in Saudi 02:06, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)]]

The article name[edit]

In my opinion, this article should be renamed to "List of terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia" for two reasons: 1- it's a list, thus it should be indicated in its name like all other lists, and 2- the definition of insurgency does not include terrorism, and since most attacks, if not all, were aimed to kill (civilians in most cases), it is clearly terrorism. -- Eagle 14:34, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

The title needs work. No doubt about it. How about Saudi Insurgency Timeline? (I like the word timeline better than list.) I prefer the more technically correct Insurgency to the more PC Terrorism, but am willing to be reasoned with. What say we wait for some other people to post comments before we act? [[Paul, in Saudi 16:02, 21 May 2005 (UTC)]][reply]

Please note that I listed this article in the Wikipedia:Requested moves page, where other people should discuss and vote to determine whether or not this page should be renamed/moved. -- Eagle 18:04, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
I am inclined to disagree with using the words "Terrorism" or "Terrorist" in the title as they are implicitly POV. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Keep it neutral. Whig 08:39, 22 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the words "Terrorism"/"Terrorist" usage, there are 22 repetitions of those words in this article, and like Terrorism against Israel in 2004 for example, its NPOV is already disputed and the {{totallydisputed}} tag is definitely needed since the source of most (if not all) entries is Saudi official media. -- Eagle 16:50, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
No doubt, as I said, this list began life as a clipping file for stuff from the Arab News. Strange there is nothing like it elsewhere on the net. I suspect as the article grows, it will gain more sources and more balance. Which title would you prefer, Eagle? [[Paul, in Saudi 02:47, 23 May 2005 (UTC)]][reply]
I think we should let other people decide. 1 opposes so far. -- Eagle 08:57, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
Well well.. since no one seems to be interested anyway, I think we should finish this by voting. I support the move of this article. So far 1 supports and 1 opposes. It looks like the final vote is yours, PaulinSaudi. -- Eagle 18:04, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

I'd prefer to avoid the word "terrorism" (and derivatives). Not because I don't think it is terrorism, but because it's just safest to be PC. That's an oppose then. violet/riga (t) 19:28, 26 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 19:28, 26 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I vote For changing the name to whatever eagleamn likes. I have been much impressed by his contributions here and respect his judgment. [[Paul, in Saudi 08:24, 27 May 2005 (UTC)]][reply]


I am inclined to agree that this should be Changed to Terrorism in Saudi Arabia. It shows less characteristics of insurgency than it does terrorism. For example, many of the attacks are not targeting the Saudi government at all, some target civilians, some foreigners, and some US troops.
As for the PC argument, I dislike that. To not use words just because they have a stigma is only promoting the stigma. And it isn't even a means to an end, you will always have to be replacing the words you use because they will develop a stigma simply from use. No doubt insurgent will have a stigma of it's own within a few years simply because of it's use in Iraq, does it solve anything to say dissident instead of insurgent? No, your just ruining another word and confusing people in the process. Jimbobsween 23:47, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's a matter of interpretation. Some people will see Insurgency as a loaded/biased word, others may see Terrorism likewise. I personally think that Terrorism in Saudi Arabia is a better title. I do not see the word Insurgency as in anyway 'technically correct'. As most acts target civilians more than the Saudi government, terrorism seems a more 'technically correct' title. The article could be expanded to include further background so it is not just a list. Chwyatt 09:30, 22 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Contents[edit]

I think the article needs to be cleaned up because it is overloaded.

1-It would be easier if terrorist incidents that took place in 2004, 2005 are broken off into smaller articles (with links to them). See: Terrorism against Israel for example. However, this is not needed if the following is taken into consideration.

2-Names should not be listed unless there is a reason because this is an encyclopedia. For example, the names of Mubarak Al-Sawat and Paul Johnson should be there. But "Abdul Aziz ibn Rasheed Al-Inazi is arrested after a shoot-out in Riyadh," in fact, this entire "incsident" should be erased in my POV.

3- (2 cont') Red internal links should be minimized, except when the link is for an article that is expected to be written... ever.

4-Some entries simply just don't fit. Like: "The United States Embassy issues a message that revokes the travel advisory for Saudi Arabia that had been in effect for a year." This is almost periodical.

Moreover, it would be a better way (in my perspective) if only important incidents are listed, and in seperate articles (for example Khobar Towers Bombing). And by using the already-existing category (Terrorist incidents in Saudi Arabia), all of them can be found in a list. -- Eagleamn 05:43, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Dear Eagle, I must (with the greatest of respect) disagree. This article, timeline, whatever, is unique and useful. There seems to be no other place that lists the most recent batch of wanted men. If and when one of these guys does something worth an article, this list will provide context.
In fact context seems to be the key word. It shows progression, the march of events. I do not see this presented elsewhere. I also like the near-graphic nature of the timeline. It is easy to see what is going on.
In all, I like it. I know it is darn imperfect, but I still like it. Can we wait until some other voices chime in before we do anything drastic.
BTW, we got a 4-day weekend out of the national period of mourning. Paul, in Saudi 14:08, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Revision[edit]

I have written a revision to this page, and would like everyone to take a look at it. As it is, this page is not exactly encyclopedic. This provides an overview of the conflict and a condensed timeline, and eliminates unnecessary information:

User:PBP/Saudi insurgency

Any comments would be useful. Perhaps this article can replace the one we have now. PBP 14:52, 3 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • I recommend strongly that this article be replaced by the revised version, as it is more coherent and encylopedic. I still believe that the name should be amended as well. -- Eagleamn 03:33, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

Since there are no objections, I have put up the revision. As to the name change--best to keep things neutral. PBP 22:27, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I am back from vacation and I must say I object. The revision is not encyclopedic in that i uses POV when none is needed. (It calls attacks 'major' for example.) It leaves out lots of really good information found nowhere else on the Net. (The lists of the Saudi Most Wanted.) It is factually wrong in places. (We can fix this of course. One example is calling the bombs of the Saudi Security Academy suicide bombs. They were not.) In truth I cannot imagine why my timeline format was so wrong as to attract so much attention. I will not revert. I respect everyone's efforts. I simply do not like the direction this is going. Paul, in Saudi 17:36, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how it's POV, or how it's unencyclopedic compared to the former article. It explains WHY the insurgents are fighting and gives some background to the attacks. Maybe if you wanted to create a page listing the Saudi Most Wanted, that would be fine, but every other article about a conflict gives some history of it. I don't know about you, but I don't think listing the name of every militant killed or arrested is needed in an article like this. PBP 18:33, 24 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

How would you feel about using a title like List of Terrorist Activity in Saudi Arabia? (An idea previously suggested.) The advantage of listing the names is the possibility the link will come up Blue now or in the future. I was trying to build a framework that would have linked otherwise unconnected persons and events. Paul, in Saudi 03:14, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

While I believe the acts in Saudi Arabia to be terrorism, this is an encyclopedia, and calling them "insurgents" or "militants" is less POV and more adherent to Wikipedia policy. I will again reiterate that the article revision provides a clearer overview of the attacks in Saudi Arabia, rather than just listing them with no background information. PBP 03:52, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

What think you? Could the timeline be reborn as Timeline of attacks... or something? Paul, in Saudi 12:02, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Let's keep this page. But if you want to create a separate page (Timeline of attacks in Saudi Arabia) detailing the exact events of the conflict, i.e. the page before its revision, go ahead. It would serve as a detailed companion page. But I think a big overview is needed so outsiders who read it will understand what this conflict is all about.PBP 14:41, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Done! Paul, in Saudi 15:14, 25 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula[edit]

I didn't know about this Insurgency article when I started the page Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula recently. That page needs work, I know, but it's a start. Note that the AQAP name is the group's own choice of name, and is not just an arbitrary article title.

LDH 19:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OR/Synth[edit]

This article appears to be an original synthesis. Apparently someone has glued together all terrorist incidents that have occurred after May 12, 2003 to form this article.

Can someone please bring sources that discuss the "Islamic insurgency in Saudi Arabia"?Bless sins 00:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Targets[edit]

It seems that the targets are foreigners, mostly Western ones. Saudis appear as "collateral damage". Doesn't Al Qaeda preach against the Saudi rulers? Aren't there attacks or at least plots against Saudi police, army, officers, celebrities? --84.20.17.84 (talk) 09:23, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

there were incidents where Saudis were main targets of Al-Qaedah , most notably is the suicide bombing of traffic police building which happened in 2004 , all victims were Saudi civilians and traffic police personnel. also the bombing of ministry of interior by an RC car which targeted Saudis but only one Pakistani taxi driver died. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.31.203.146 (talk) 16:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

name[edit]

I don't agree with the name "Islamic insurgency" in this article, their opponents are also Ismalimists and there's no such thing as "christian insurgency" is there? I proposeto change it simply to "insurgency in Saudi Arabia" - PietervHuis (talk) 10:28, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

agree, but with timeframe added --TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Insurgency has ended[edit]

I would say that since late 2007 the insurgency has been efectivly destroyed. And I think we should put an end date to this conflict as 2007. What do you guys say?(Top Gun)

agree.--TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:35, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
that's not a problem right now, see below --TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name innacuracy[edit]

"Insurgency" doesn't fit in here - this is not the right description. A series of terror attacks cannot be considered a military conflict. Compare to other insurgency articles. I suggest to change it to Terrorism in Saudi Arabia and remove the infobox, to be like every other "Terrorism in ..." article--TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey you asked my opinion, but I'm afraid I disagree with your proposal. Terrorism sounds a bit too POV, even if we speak about Al-Qaeda. Maybe such an article could talk specifically about terrorist incidents, attacks on western civilians for example. Or maybe we could name this article "Al-Qaeda attacks in Saudi Arabia" for example. - PietervHuis (talk) 00:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
why too pov? we have a bunch of terrorism in... articles --TheFEARgod (Ч) 15:50, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think "Terrorism in Saudi Arabia" is fine. —Nightstallion 08:02, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
could you do the move, then? --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:10, 30 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Everyone agreed? Victuallers (talk) 11:09, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 11:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Move complete ... and downgraded to C ... you do need some refs for a B I think Victuallers (talk) 11:25, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright problem removed[edit]

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.saudi-us-relations.org/Fact_Sheets/TimelineTerrorism.html. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Mkativerata (talk) 19:33, 20 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Meaning of "atheists"[edit]

In March 2014, the Saudi interior ministry issued a royal decree branding all atheists as terrorists

This needs to be put into context. When a Saudi minister uses the term atheist in this way, without specifically mentioning non-Saudis, it implies non-practicing Muslims, perhaps even just Saudi non-practicing Muslims. It is not a reference to atheists in general and certainly not to Westerners. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.45.51.195 (talk) 11:03, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Which parts of this article need to be updated?[edit]

@Oranjelo100: I noticed that you added some cleanup tags to this article earlier this year, but I'm not sure which parts of this article are outdated. Can you suggest any improvements that could be made to this article? Jarble (talk) 18:13, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's missing a lot of minor attacks Saudi Arabia had.Oranjelo100 (talk) 06:25, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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