User talk:Cosal

Line Breaks[edit]

I see you have again removed all the line breaks from Henri Lafond. I will restore them. See User:Aymatth2#Line breaks. My vision and coordination are poor. You may simulate the effect by holding the mouse in your non-dominant hand and wearing eyeglasses lightly smeared with Vaseline. I often rearrange sentences while starting an article until the most natural sequence emerges. It is easier to do so if each sentence ends with a single line break. I click in the white space to the right of the sentence, drag the mouse to the left margin to select it, then cut and paste using the keyboard. It is much harder to position the cursor precisely at a point within the text, then drag to another point within the text. I am not the only one with poor vision and coordination. This is why the Manual of Style says "a single line break may follow a sentence, which may help some editors." Single line breaks make it easier for physically handicapped people to edit text, and are invisible to readers. Thanks, Aymatth2 (talk) 17:21, 25 January 2018 (UTC) I ask that you do not remove them.[reply]

Ateliers et Chantiers de Saint-Nazaire Penhoët[edit]

I've reverted your move of this article as my sources use this name consistently. Why do you believe otherwise? Even the French article on the company refers to a book with this name [1]--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 18:40, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I have just extensively researched the history of this shipyard (in French sources), and the name of the town Saint-Nazaire was NOT part of the name of the shipyard. --Cosal (talk) 18:48, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Saint-Nazaire was part of the predecessor shipyard's name that operated from 1862 to about 1870 under the management of John Scott. You may wish to see, for instance, in the French Wiki-article about the Compagnie générale transatlantique, this statement and the attendant source citation: Les deux entrepreneurs font l'acquisition de terres près de Saint-Nazaire et y fondent les Chantiers et Ateliers de Saint-Nazaire (mieux connus ensuite sous le nom de Chantiers de Penhoët). (Charles Offrey, Cette grande dame que fut la Transat, MDV, 1994, 207 p. (ISBN 9782910821005)). Greetings, --Cosal (talk) 19:02, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

John Jordan & Jean Moulin in their French Destroyers: Torpilleurs d'Escadre & Contre-Torpilleurs 1922–1956 and Jordan and Robert Dumas in their French Battleships 1922–1956 consistently refer to the company with the name that I gave above. Jordan is fluent in French while Moulin and Dumas are two of the most prominent French naval historians around. I find it hard to believe that they'd screw up the company name when it had to be all over the original source documents which they'd accessed for the books. Right now I'm wondering if the CGT was responsible for the passenger ships and AC St-Nazaire Penhoët for the warships with some sort of weird cross-ownership or subsidiary relationship between them because Jordan and Dumas say that the battleship Strasbourg was launched from the same slipway that had built Normandie.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:04, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I will try to look again into this matter in the next few days. --Cosal (talk) 22:58, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The issue of the name aside, the shipyard began in 1862 as an operation of Charles C. Scott of Greenock and his son John, under contract to the CGT for which they built four liners. I think the yard was called "Scott et Cie." They declared bankrupcy in 1866, when CGT due to its own liquidity problems could/did not pay them, and closed down in 1870. CGT then reopened the yard in 1881 as a wholly owned subsidiary and ran it until 1900, when it went public under the name "Societe Anonyme des Chantiers et Ateliers de Saint-Nazaire (Penhoët)" - note the parentheses! - but with CGT still as majority owner. In 1955 it merged with the adjacent "Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire" into "Chantiers de l'Atlantique". Throughout this time it was, so it appears, generally referred to as "Chantiers de Penhoët", and until 1900 this may in fact have been its actual designation (but I am not certain about that). They did indeed build the big liners "Paris" (1921), "Île de France" (1927) and "Normandie" (1935), and in addition they built in cooperation with the neighboring Ateliers et Chantiers de la Loire, established in 1882, the battleships "Strasbourg" and the unfinished "Jean Bart". Greetings, --Cosal (talk) 23:20, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that's very helpful. That also would explain Offley's comment above that Chantiers de Penhoët was a popular name.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 00:15, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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