Talk:Eisteddfod

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Hedd Wyn[edit]

Hedd Wyn states that Ellis Evans was killed in Belgium, here it says France. Which is correct?--PRB 08:32, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

  • Belgium. My fault. Varitek 00:21, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Fixed your spelling/ling - it's Wyn, no Wynn

Removed etymology[edit]

I have removed this line: "literally 'Being Sat' ["Eistedd" - Sit, "Fod" - mutation of "being"]" ... because I am not sure that you can really break it up into exact English pieces that way. For the record, The Oxford Companion to the Literature of Wales simply says "word which originally meant a session or assembly of poets, is derived from the Welsh verb eistedd, meaning 'to sit'." Telsa 09:15, 5 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It does mean "to be seated". Eistedd + bod (soft mutation to fod). Compare the word "session". (This unsigned comment made at 18:10, 22 December 2005 by User:68.102.27.175)

The anonymous etymologist is back. Removed his/her "correct meaning" because it's no such thing. Translating best as a 'gathering' or 'assembly', more literally as a "sitting together"? Well, there's no element in eisteddfod representing "together", and the English for eisteddfod is "eisteddfod", not "gathering" or "assembly". Going in the other direction, neither "gathering" nor "assembly" would normally be translated as eisteddfod. Giving the verb-noun "eistedd" is more than sufficient. Flapdragon 18:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Venues[edit]

I wonder whether it's worth splitting off the section listing the venues of the National Eisteddfod into their own article/list? Even with the double-column additions (good thought, that), it still dwarfs the actual text. --Telsa 21:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eisteddfod venues[edit]

Looking back over the history, I see that some attempt was made by an anonymous user some while ago to add Welsh names, but these were subsequently removed. Well I'd have to agree that I think there IS a strong case for using Welsh names in venues, not least of all because this is a Welsh language event! To me, Vaynol (urgh!) is "Faenol", and "Mold" is "Yr Wyddgrug". I'm not suggesting replacing the English name, but perhaps having a bi-lingual entry. After all, who are we to say that Caerdydd should be called Cardiff? It's called both, on equal status. What do people think? Hogyn Lleol 18:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's also a potential problem over how local to have the names, eg Faenol/Vaynol or Bangor or "Eryri" or whatever -- sometimes the names are more geographically specific, or more vague, than just naming the town. I'd suggest giving the English name of the nearest place anyone's heard of, followed by the official title, eg Denbigh (Sir Ddinbych a'r Cyffiniau). There's no reason to show a Welsh translation just for the sake of it, on English-language Wikipedia. Flapdragon 00:13, 25 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ouch. The Faenol mention is close to the bone. I wrote much of that article and started it as "Y Faenol (Welsh: the manor, anglicised as The Vaynol).." Subsequently the page was re-titled and re-worded to be the other way round. I couldn't complain really, because I had known that there is apparently a policy that we use the English names on en: (although in articles about the places, include the Welsh name as part of the article) and the Welsh names on cy:. There's some reference to this over on Talk:Owain Glyndŵr. It seems fairly fluid, but based on "what you would say when you are speaking English". The trouble is, whilst I don't know anyone who would normally say "I am going to Caerdydd today", there are other placenames where the choice is a bit more arbitrary. Some places don't have English versions. Others are known by both English and Welsh names in English, just depending on who's talking to whom. So the last time I tried to tidy up the number of redundant links in the list, I stuck to just the English ones. (Note that most of the Welsh ones are straight redirects to the English ones, so there is no point in linking both when they're next to each other.) It seems obvious to me that stuff on the maes should be introduced by its Welsh name and a translation or English equivalent provided. I am less sure about the list of venues. My main concern with the venue list is still the size: it dwarfs the rest of the article! Telsa (talk) 13:44, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This is all true of course. I'd add only that some English names are hopelessly old-fashioned (the use of V for Welsh F always looks a bit quaint to me) and have effectively been replaced by Welsh versions, often officially as in Conwy and Lanelli and Caernarfon which I think are now the proper English names for those places -- Conway/Lanelly/Ca(e)rnarvon look pretty dated and personally I think I'd put Vaynol in the same category, so "the Faenol estate" seems fine to me. But not Caerdydd when writing in English. And not "the hills of Cymru" either thank you, except perhaps in over-the-top literary modes. Flapdragon 14:22, 26 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. As someone familiar with the area, I've seen Faenol more than Vaynol in English (and I agree that the latter is probably rather like Conway even if not quite to the same extent). (Note, though, that the map on the first page of the English side of the official leaflet advertising the Faenol Eisteddfod referred to Conway. Go figure.). —Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley talk contrib 12:45, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation Text[edit]

The pronunciation text is not very clear: 

(IPA: /aɪˈstɛðvəd/, Welsh /ə(i)ˈstɛðvɔd/; plural eisteddfodau /-stɛð'vɔdaɨ/ or eisteddfods)


Is the first pronunciation an Anglicized one, and the second actual Welsh? And then which of those is the plural pronunciation?

In the Welsh language a double-d (dd) is pronounced as a 'th' sound like 'the'. Hope that clarifies a bit.

English? Is the first piece of IPA supposed to be the word in _English_ (ie as spoken by English speakers who do not speak Welsh)? If so the question is English in Wales or in England or where? In Wales of course, English speakers' pronunciation is in many many cases influenced by Welsh itself, even in the case of many of those who would say they speak only English. In England, the pronunciation is /aɪˈstɛdfəd/ or /aɪˈstɛdfɔd/ (personal experience) and I'd like someone from Wales to comment about the reality of the English pronunciation there, as the first form looks to be a blend of Welsh and English forms. If no one objects, I'd like to amend the first one if need be to reflect English-language reality. Wales-based English speakers out there help? CecilWard 17:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Urdd Gobaith Cymru[edit]

The article claims that Urdd Gobaith Cymru is the largest youth movement in Europe, yet the Urdd Gobaith Cymru claims this is untrue! Which one is right? Markb 14:06, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have changed these to only what the Urdd itself claims (largest youth organization in Wales; "premier" youth arts festival in Europe). -- Picapica 09:50, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

redirect[edit]

Could the term 'eisteddfodau' be redirected here? I don't know how to do that, and it would seem to make sense. Zigzig20s 17:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Done. People could also write [[eisteddfod]]au to get a working link from the plural, but we might as well have the redirect for people who don't :) For how (and when) to make redirect pages, you could look at Wikipedia:Redirect. Telsa (talk) 17:54, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Thank you. Zigzig20s 18:23, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of National Eisteddfod venues[edit]

Should we have the list of venues for the National Eisteddfod here? We have the same list on the National Eisteddfod article which seems logical but this page is just about what an eisteddfod is rather than one particular invocation! --Cynnydd 11:37, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you - the list of venues belongs to the National Eisteddfod article (but reference could be made to it from here). Hogyn Lleol 12:42, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Removed National Eisteddfod list. I think it looks better without it now! Also rated article for Wales project as mid/start but with a bit of tidying could be a B class.

Why the 'eisteddfod'[edit]

The introduction to the page explains that the word Eisteddfod is related to eistedd, but it does not suggest why all this sitting is happening. Surely it is worth noting that a chair is traditionally awarded to the victorious bard.

Garik added that; blame him :) Thinking about it, is the name actually derived from it, or merely related to it? (If you see what I mean.) You're right about mentioning the chair, but isn't this separate from the name? There used to be something about chairs and crowns in the article, but it was part of the text transferred over to National Eisteddfod. We should probably add it back in. Telsa (talk) 15:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding its history (and "chairing"), the official Eisteddfod website states .... "The National Eisteddfod of Wales can be traced back to 1176 when it is said that the first Eisteddfod was held, under the auspices of Lord Rhys, at his castle in Cardigan. There he held a grand gathering to which were invited poets and musicians from all over the country. A chair at the Lord's table was awarded to the best poet and musician, a tradition that prevails in the modern day National Eisteddfod." Hogyn Lleol 15:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've not seen any sources that support the name being related to the chairing ceremony. I think it's more likely to refer to the fact that there is an audience for the poets who are sitting, but it's merely speculation. Perhaps the explanation of the etymology of the name, as far as one can back up with sources, should be given its own section in the article, though it would be short, as it doesn't seem "essential" enough (if that makes sense) for the introduction to the article. What do you think? User:M.T.S.W.A. 17.20 22 August 2017

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Cleaning up international section[edit]

Hello! I'm a new editor so not very confident - yet!

I came here to add some information on the American eisteddfod's. It seems, somehow, that two sections on international iterations of the Eisteddfod have been created, and while I would be happy enough adding my little bit of (beautifully sourced, of course!) text, I didn't want to start shifting sections about without asking for some advice.

Obviously the first American and Argentinian eisteddfod have been begun too early and they need to be taken out of the Welsh section and added to the "other eisteddfods" section, which I would suggest should probably be renamed "eisteddfods outside Wales" (as the International Eisteddfod is taken for the Llangollen event) or something similar?

Any feedback or advice would be gratefully received. SkagwayEntropy (talk) 22:24, 30 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You have clearly given this some thought, so I would suggest doing what seems right, preferably in small bites so that it is easier to undo if it goes wrong, and accompanied by lucid edit summaries. This approach is supported by WP:BRD- so just go for it!. Regards  Velella  Velella Talk   22:34, 30 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much, Vellella. I've had a go at the international section and would like to return to it to clear up the sections I haven't yet looked at.

My main concern at the moment is the possibility that there is too much material there, unbalancing the article. This particularly applies to the United States section.

Thank you for your encouragement! Diolch yn fawr, in fact SkagwayEntropy (talk) 19:46, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the Introduction and History[edit]

The introduction goes over some of the history of the Eisteddfod tradition which should perhaps be left/moved into the "history" section. Any thoughts? User:M.T.S.W.A. 17.30 22 August 2017

Could we mention in the intro that when used on it's own "the eisteddfod" usually refers to the national eisteddfod? Don't know where you'd find a source for that.

Question about history and article layout[edit]

The history and Revival sections overlap slightly chronologically so they don't flow very well. Should the revival section go over the large-scale eisteddfodau that took place from Iolo's time until the foundation of the current national eisteddfod? It goes into relatively excessive depth on the Llangollen Eisteddfod of 1858, glossing over the others. Perhaps the history section should focus on pre-Iolo events only? And do we know if local eisteddfods have taken place since a certain point in history of if the national eisteddfodau led to them being held? M.T.S.W.A. (talk) 20:35, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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American eisteddfodau[edit]

K1ngstowngalway1 has introduced new sections on eisteddfodau and related matters in several American states. I have reverted some of this material, and K1ngstowngalway1 has reintroduced some of it in modified form. However, we were editing simultaneously and this may have caused confusion.

The current text in the United States section contains too much detail and is overweight for this article. Moreover, some paragraphs do not mention eisteddfodau. Some of the material would be better placed in articles about Welsh communities in the US. In general, we do not need lists of names of the people involved.

For example, these sentences seem out of place here:

  • The second eisteddfod was held in Judson in the log chapel in 1866 with the Rev. John Roberts as Chairman. Ellis E. Ellis, Robert E. Hughes, H.H. Hughes, Rev. J. Jenkins, and William R. Jones took part in this eisteddfod. The third eisteddfod was held in Judson in the new chapel (Jerusalem) on January 2, 1871. The famous Llew Llwyfo (bardic name) was chairman and a splendid time was had.
  • There were various recitations by Owen Morris and Thomas Hughes, who were masterly as usual, among others. John S. Davies and his group sang several pieces, and the singers of Bethel also took part. Owen Richards and his brother, Tomy Richards, took part in the first Eisteddfod. Johnnie Jones from the same district turned out to be skillfull at recitation.
  • During the same era, a group of Welsh-language poets used to meet regularly under the leadership of Ellis Ellis, (Glan Dyfi), at the Cheshire and Jones Shop in Mankato, where the packing paper in the shop was often used to write down englynion in Welsh.
  • The 2011 West Coast Eistefddfod event was co-curated by Lorin Morgan-Richards and held at the Barnsdall Art Park in Los Angeles, the site of Welsh-American architect Frank Lloyd Wright's Hollyhock House, near Griffith Park, founded by Welsh-American philanthropist Griffith J. Griffith.

The extended quotations from Rev. D.M. Jones are overweight, and they are probably a violation of the translator's copyright. Verbcatcher (talk) 13:27, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I quite agree with you. There is a tendency, when material is found, to use too much of it. Such additions don't help the encyclopedia, being TL;DR. Judicious and sometimes brutal thinning is called for, which I encourage you to do.--Quisqualis (talk) 03:32, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Missing ref[edit]

@K1ngstowngalway1: you added a ref named ":2", possibly to source the name of this café, but you forgot to give the ref any definition. Could you possibly fill in the source on that? Thanks. -- Fyrael (talk) 21:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's also extremely unclear what some of the other ref links like "Davies (1994a)" are meant to refer to. If you could clean those up, that would be amazing. -- Fyrael (talk) 16:56, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Consider it done! Thanks for letting me know! K1ngstowngalway1 (talk) 02:41, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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