Talk:Nyarlathotep

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Randall Flagg[edit]

This is the first I've read of Flagg being based on Nyarlathotep, read a lot about him and not one mention apart from King praising Lovecraft generally. I'm going to remove it unless someone provides a source. Desdinova (talk) 18:02, 7 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Glenn Bateman refers to Nyarlathotep as one of Flagg's aliases when they're being taken into Vegas by Flagg's goons towards the end of The Stand.
“Are you so afraid of him you don’t dare speak his name? Very well, I’ll say it for you. His name is Randall Flagg, also known as the darkman, also known as the tall man, also known as the Walkin Dude. Don’t some of you call him that?”
His voice had climbed to the high, clear octaves of fury. Some of the men looked uneasily at each other and Burlson fell back a step.
“Call him Beelzebub, because that’s his name, too. Call him Nyarlahotep and Ahaz and Astaroth. Call him R’yelah and Seti and Anubis.” 2603:8000:8C42:234:B299:BF38:9BCE:D225 (talk) 17:17, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Skin[edit]

"Mr. Skin" doesn't sound very Lovecraftian. -Litefantastic 12:27, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Eh, that was my first impression as well. However, I found out that Mr. Skin is the title of a short story written by Victor Milán that appeared in an "anthology of twenty-one stories developping the Cthulhu Mythos", Cthulhu's Heirs (source). I have never come across any of Milán's works, but apparently he is a Prometheus Award recipient who wrote quite a bit of novels, as shown here. This seems to be his official website. As for the connection between Mr. Skin and Nyarlathotep, I saw it mentionned on this page as well as this one.
I'm not the one who added Mr. Skin on that list, by the way. Just wanted to share the information I found regarding this particular Nyarlathotep avatar using Google. I think "Mr. Skin" may as well be listed in this article, even if I'm not certain that it is notable. -- Audrey 04:46, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ambiguous wording[edit]

The Dark Pharaoh: a hairless man with dead black skin and hooves for feet; this form is peculiar to Egypt. This form and the previous two appear to be slight variations on the same Mask.

I'm concerned about the wording here getting out of date as new entries are made - indeed, I wonder if it already has, as "The Crawling Chaos" is probably not one of the two forms intended. I'm not qualified to rework it correctly though, not knowing the original intent. nae'blis (talk) 17:46, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation[edit]

I actually came to this page hoping that there would be a pronunciation of Nyarlathotep. Maybe someone who knows how to pronounce it could include the pronunciation near the top of the page, in the usual spot one would place it. --magiluke 00:11, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • I always pronouced it Nyar-la-ho-tep. I base this assumption - yes, I confess that's all it is - on the fact that 'ho-tep' is a real and legitimate surname, such as in Bubba Ho-tep. -Litefantastic 00:20, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems that you are pronouncing Nyar as one syllable. I always wanted to make it two syllables. I'm guessing it's similar to the way you pronounce kyo in Tokyo, or nyet. --magiluke 00:51, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

From many years of reading Lovecraft and all the others my take on pronunciation is Nuh-Yarl-Uh-Tho-Tep.Wizardboy 18:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've always pronounced it N-yarl-A-tho-tep. Reading Litefantastic's comment, I suspect it should be pronounced N-yarl-at-Ho-tep. Maby there should be something in the article that addresses that there is no consensus on pronunciation?Pdarley 19:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lovecraft wrote that the pronounciation doesn't matter since the names aren't made for human tongues.172.173.186.227 16:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The rulebook to the Call of Cthulhu roleplaying game traces many Mythos names to believable etymological roots. The name Nyarlathotep is suggested to come from ny har rut hotep, supposedly meaning "there is no peace (safety, rest) at the gate", which meshes quite well with his role as a messenger of the Outer Gods, a "gate" to the supernatural. The name would since have degraded, but the important bit for pronunciation is the fact that hotep is its own word, separate from the degraded nyarlat. That being said, Lovecraft probably had little actual knowledge of ancient egyptian linguistics.--LordXaras (talk) 14:21, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Call of Cthulhu rulebook (6th Edition, p.124) shows a poor picture of these hieroglyphics:

D35Hr
r		 liit
pr		 Htp
t p

which would be n-hr-lyt-htp. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrewRaphael (talk • contribs) 10:48, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ambiguous text[edit]

I removed the following text because I can't figure out what it means. No reference was given, so I don't what to make of it:

Nyarlathotep (the Crawling Chaos): A desert noise cult whose namesake has convicted some to create "loathsome sounds from beyond".

-,-~R'lyehRising~-,- 16:06, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Update. This is apparently some sort of noise band; however, the sentence is poorly written (should "convicted" be "convinced"?) and most certainly does not belong at the top of the page. Based on other information (see Talk:List of noise musicians#Nyarlathotep), it may not be noteworthy enough for inclusion anyway. RlyehRising 12:15, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Original research[edit]

The Nyarlathotep in the mythos section contains information that appears to be original research since it does not say where it comes from. This section could be greatly improved by providing verifiable information.
-,-~R'lyehRising~-,- 16:24, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The following section is a sort of hodgepodge. Some of the info can be substiantiated with a ref, while other pieces seem to violate WP:NOR. I have noted my recommendations for clean up.

Nyarlathotep differs from the other beings in a number of ways. Most of them are exiled to stars, like Yog-Sothoth and Hastur, or sleeping and dreaming like Cthulhu; Nyarlathotep, however, is active and frequently walks the Earth in the guise of a human being, usually a tall, slim, joyous man.[1] Most of them have their own cults serving them, while Nyarlathotep seems to serve them and take care of their affairs in their absence.[2] Most of them use strange alien languages, while Nyarlathotep uses human languages and can be mistaken for a human being.[3] Finally, most of them are all powerful yet purposeless, yet Nyarlathotep seems to be deliberately deceptive and manipulative, and even uses propaganda to achieve his goals.[4]In this regard, he is probably the most human-like among them.[5]

Unbelievable that this entire table has not been deleted. It is loaded with supposition, and the column that supposedly contains references often does not. For example, the Randall Flag entry does not actually have a corresponding reference. Linking to Stephen King's wiki page does not validate Randall Flag as having anything to do with Nyarlthotep. SteveG (talk) 17:46, 9 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

  • 1 This probably does not need a reference. Most of these facts are covered by other Cthulhu mythos articles.
  • 2 The phrasing needs to be changed here; it is somewhat vague. I'm not sure what "affairs" refers to (since the Outer Gods are said to be mindless and care little for the human world).
  • 3 I'm not familiar with the Outer Gods' "strange alien languages"; what source speaks of this? (This appears to be largely a deduction on the part of the original author.)
  • 4 This could be substantiated; the part about "propaganda" is somewhat dubious. (Nyarlathotep seems to prefer outright lying; e.g., "The Dweller in Darkness" by August Derleth; "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath" by HPL.)
    • Update. Upon reflection, the depiction of Nyarlathotep as a sort of "charlatan/showman" in Lovecraft's prose poem of the same name would suggests that "propaganda" might just be one of the things in his bag of tricks. RlyehRising12:24, 18 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • 5 Looks like a generalization. So Nyarlathotep is like human beings because he is deceitful? That's an interesting claim (and not without its merits); however, can this be substantiated by a source?

-,-~R'lyehRising~-,- 17:07, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Expanding on this, considering that Lovecraft did not intend for there to be a "Cthulhu Mythos" and that there's substantial lack of clarity in the existence of a "canon" of Cthulhu Mythos, I'm overall puzzled by some of the portions of this article, particularly the table of forms, which seems to be treating many different materials together as forming a sort of canon of Nyarlathotep. To my mind, this article requires substantive restructuring, beginning with a section limited to Nyarlathotep's appearances in Lovecraft's fiction, and then keeping the various sources clear throughout so as not to delve into novel synthesis and original research. Phil Sandifer 20:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article would greatly benefit from junking the table as well as the section noted by R'lyeh Rising. Nareek 01:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Nyarlathotep" could mean something?[edit]

Something interesting I just noticed, and which you should try if you have Firefox: If you type "Nyarlathotep" somewhere, Firefox's spell check wants to correct it into "Charlatanry" (as well as "Charlatanry's" and "Charlatanries"). Given his original role as a scientist who stuns the public with miraculous experiments and the narrator's doubts of his authenticity, I hesitate to see this as a coincidence... Maybe Lovecraft had a basis for this name (even though he claims he dreamed it)? Anyone know the logic behind Firefox's spell check? Thoughts? Arjunkster 21:00, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The first eight letters in the name -- n, y, a, r, l, a, t, and h -- all appear in the word "charlatanry", though it's in the sequence h, a, r, l, a, t, n, y. That's probably the spellcheck's rationale for suggesting that correction. Tsunomaru (talk) 21:25, 18 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Uh, eh, øh... no. It can't mean anything. It is meaningless and senseless. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 12:58, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No List of the Masks of Nyarlathotep?[edit]

I came to this page hoping to find a complete list of all the "known" masks of Nyarlathotep, as in those included in the original Chtulhu Mythos, and those added by later sources, and what source they originally appeared in. I often play Arkham Horror, and while I understand where the Black Man, the Haunter in the Dark, and the Dark Pharaoh come from, I was curious about where they got the God of the Bloody Tongue, the Bloated Women, etc from, an if there were any other masks named in any other media, that are considered semi official? I just thought this might be a useful addition to the page, as anyone doing research into Nyarlathotep would be likely to be interested in this kind of thing.

Hey, awhile back I saw that there was a very complete list like this included on this page, but lately I haven't seen it again. I find this character highly interesting and I too would love to see this list with references and additional information return to the page because the masks of Nyarlathotep are a vital part of this character.Cyanid (talk) 15:51, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
In Lovecraft's work, the forms of Nyarlathotep are:
-various human forms:
-the mysterious showman from "Nyarlathotep"
-an ancient Egyptian (only mentioned, doesn't appear, in "The Haunter of the Dark")
-witch-cult devil-figure ("the Black Man of the witch-cults") from "The Dreams in the Witch-House"
-pharaoh-type figure from "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath"
-The Haunter of the Dark
-monstrous, presumably Mi-go form that visits and is worshipped by the Mi-go ("The Whisperer in Darkness")
Also, "Dream-Quest" mentions his "thousand other forms"... Vultur (talk) 09:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Corrected quote attribution[edit]

The "And through this revolting graveyard of the universe" quote is from Nyarlathotep, not The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath. I corrected it. Vultur (talk) 09:54, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No section for Nyarlathotep in non-Lovecraft's work?[edit]

Seriously, this character was used by many writers and got several alternate interpretion and forms. Yet this article said nothing. L-Zwei (talk) 06:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Almost half year and no respond? I guess I have to dig that old "forms table" from history then. Comment above claim it is original research since Cthulhu Mythos isn't Lovecraft's intention. Yet such claim is true original research, if a fiction claim it is Nyarly's form then we have no right to leave it. L-Zwei (talk) 12:43, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I brough that form table back. Remover claim that "any attempt to assemble a wholly coherent Cthulhu Mythos is original research, as Lovecraft never intended one, and subsequent efforts were disorganized". However, since Wikipedia cober post-Lovecraft Cthulhu Mythos work as well, such claim is the real original research. L-Zwei (talk) 10:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Section "Film"[edit]

Section Film promotes products at Miskatonic "University" a commercial site selling a few videos, T-shirts and little more. I think the section might be a case of WP:PROMOTION, and should be deleted. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 10:11, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Scanning history I didn't find the time when and user who added the section. I'm going to see if the're are similar suspected promotions/advertisements in other articles. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 10:19, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I found the following using Special:LinkSearch: just two article links of which the one from Miskatonic University is justified. I think the "promotion" is not blatant and serious. Anyone more knowledgeable about the article on Nyarlathotep may do as he/she wishes. Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 10:25, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation?[edit]

Nyarlat-Hotep (like in Im-Hotep) or Nyarla-Thotep (like in "thought")? Rursus dixit. (mbork3!) 13:00, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nai-a-ra-tho-tep is my coice. But I guess any combination is as good as other. L-Zwei (talk) 12:38, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The name is clearly derived from -Hotep as an Egyptian-style name. DreamGuy (talk) 19:37, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Image[edit]

Unless I'm mistaken, the image used on this page depicts Azathoth, instead of Nyarlathotep. The creatures playing the pipes are a giveaway, frequently associated with Azathoth but never with Nyarlathotep, as far as I can tell. A more accurate image ought to be found. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.66.159.92 (talk) 00:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • The artist intend to depict Nyarlathotep (per filename). Why there are flute-players there? This either depict it being in court of Azathoth, or arist take on fan theory that Nyarlathotep is part of Azathoth. L-Zwei (talk) 09:59, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This image has no encyclopedic purpose to be here. It's just fan art, albeit better than average fan art. Images in an encyclopedia should be from something official, historical or so forth. I am therefore removing it. DreamGuy (talk) 19:35, 24 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

For sourcing sometime.....[edit]

In case anyone can find some sources, take note of this diff to cut and paste with references. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:07, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Connections to Hali[edit]

Would here be a good place to mention this? In Hugh Cave's mythos tales The Isle of Dark Magic and The Death Watch, Nyarlathotep is referred to in relation with "the black lakes of Hali". In one passage from The Death Watch, a character invokes him thus: "Harken to me, O Mighty Nyarlathotep! You who rule the midnight forests by the shores of Hali, hear me..."

Wasn't sure where else to discuss this. 72.5.59.139 (talk) 03:38, 16 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

1. Ahtu[edit]

The entry lists Ahtu as sourced from from an RPG. It actually comes from David Drake's Than Curse the Darkness, anthologized in New Tales of the Cthulhu Mythos (1980). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.42.208.184 (talk) 15:52, 18 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Grimoirium Imperium[edit]

The character Nyarlathotep originally appears in the Grimoirium Imperium attributed to Dr. John Dee which he claimed to have received in 1581 from a fraudulent medium named Barnabas Saul. A link to the original work can be found here [1]. The origin story of Nyarlathotep and the entire Cthulhu mythos needs to be completely revamped to reflect the true origin story, but I lack the time to do so myself. The pdf link provided should have sufficient information to go on for anyone else so inclined. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.214.169.69 (talk • contribs) 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Lovecraft wrote on several occasions that Abdul Alhazred was completely fictional. Therefore this source, which says it is derived from the works of Abd Al-Hazred (another version of the same name) is also completely fictional. Removing from the article. --‖ Ebyabe talk - Welfare State ‖ 09:41, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Citation and Rewrite[edit]

This article is undersourced and needs to be rewritten to meet Wikipiedia's guidelines and standards. There are some information in the article that is unsourced and should be either given proper citations from reliable sources or removed from the article if none can be found. The writing style and tone of the article does not fit with Wikipiedia's guidelines and standards of being encyclopedic in tone and style and should be rewritten so that it fits with these guidelines. Information in the article needs to be reformatted and reorganized so that each piece of information fits into appropriate sections. The article should be structured under these sections and sub-sections:

Section- Appearances: Notable appearances in literature

Sub-sections- Canon: All stories published by H.P. Lovecraft); Non-canon: All stories by authors other than Lovecraft (This should not include only name mentioning or Stephen King's Randall Flagg, those go in the Popular culture section)

Section- Concept/creation

Sub-sections- Inspiration: The character's development by its creator H.P. Lovecraft; Development: The name of this sub-section can be renamed but this is essentially about the character's development by other authors.

Section- Characterization: Pretty self explanatory what this should entail.

Section- Popular Culture: The character's appearances in popular culture (This should be structured as a well written paragraph rather than bullet points). --Paleface Jack 18:04, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

Table of Forms Attribution[edit]

I can't believe no one's mentioned this yet, but I really feel that the Table of Forms ought to have a column stating the work or works in which each form originally appeared, or failing that, citations linking each form to said works. It really seems like the sort of information that one might expect to have been in the table from the getgo.

I might try and do a deep dive to try and track those attributions down myself later on, but if anyone here already knows some of them, please feel free to chime in. --BrokenEye3 (talk) 11:16, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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