Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Northrop High School

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Northrop High School was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was no consensus. However, this editor merged the page into Fort Wayne Community Schools. Cool Hand Luke 21:13, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Another lost VfD. Not a stub, but nothing in it seems to establish notability. However, I'm also neutral on this: I think it might be improved enough to keep. Cool Hand Luke 05:19, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Actually, delete. It's very trivial information. Am still open to improvements. Cool Hand Luke 06:08, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC) Merge and redirect, see below. Cool Hand Luke 23:42, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
The nominator doesn't even want to delete this page any more. Can we move this out of here and stop wasting people's time? anthony 警告 12:17, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
There are still more combined votes for delete and merge than for keep. I think it deplorable that you would make such a brazen attempt to disregard wikipedia policy just because your position is losing. Indrian 16:25, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
Why in the world would you combine votes for delete with votes for merge? Neither an administrator nor VFD is needed to merge a page. anthony 警告 16:37, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Ok, fair enough. There are still more votes for delete than keep, though the number is a little closer. Indrian 16:39, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
And there are move votes against deleting than there are for deleting. There is no possibility of reaching a consensus for deletion, even if you define consensus as 2/3rds majority, and this nomination is doing nothing but wasting people's time and bloating VFD. If you really think it's useful to keep this here, then fine, but don't accuse me of disregarding policy just because my position is losing. My position is not losing, in fact, my position is that keeping is preferable and that merging is acceptable, which is precisely what is going to happen unless some miracle occurs and 20 people all vote to delete, and I haven't diregarded policy, I have merely asked whether or not we can drop this silly debate which has been going on for almost 2 months now. anthony 警告 17:01, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I agree with your points in principle; I was just shocked that you were trying to take it down before the appointed time. I think you are right that we will not reach consensus, but we need to allow this to take its natural course. I may have been overly hostile above, and I apologize for that. Indrian 19:33, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
I'm not the nominator, anthony. In fact, I didn't want it deleted when I first listed it. This page has had a VfD flag since August (see the nominator JohnRDaily's comments below). It didn't seem to have ever been listed here, so I put it up. It deserves a vote, and it's at least ambiguous enough that simply deleting "{{vfd}}" would be dishonest. Cool Hand Luke 04:58, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifying this. anthony 警告 13:02, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It seems this debate goes on forever, but what little consensus I've seen would lead me to believe that a high school with no real notability doesn't belong (although the article is obviously well-intended and well-researched). --JohnRDaily 13:15, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Are you objecting to its scope, as being an article interesting to too slim of an audience? I believe it's quite notable to its 2,000+ students and fifty years of alumni, although I recognize my article has little scholarly value. Admittedly the article is fairly plain, and I don't see Northrop as any pinnacle of high schools myself, but those may simply be results of my own weak knowledge of my school's history. I wrote the article expecting other alumni and current students would find it and add what I don't know. --ChrisErbach 02:29, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
In general, there seems to be a prejudice against creating articles for public schools unless there is some notability/notoriety to the school, lest we end up with thousands of such. As no one seems to have ventured into the discussion, though, it's hard to assert that it's a strongly-held viewpoint. --JohnRDaily 02:08, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
This claim seems to assert more than I've witnessed. At least on VfD, the school deletionists do have a broader base of support, but there hardly seems to be a general prejudice. Posiduck 12:16, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I would argue that if a thousand Wikipedia high school articles are created, so be it, so long as they meet Wikipedia quality and NPOV standards and they contribute to the compilation of human knowledge we're building. If this were a physical encyclopedia, I would never have added a Northrop entry, but as Wikipedia is electronic, and my article is fattening no physical book, I believe it should stay. --ChrisErbach 05:23, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete for reasons eneumerated many times before. Indrian 06:10, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Non-notable. RickK 06:47, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. To ChrisErbach; The bar for high schools is very high. Stuyvesant High School, for example. The problem is, we all went to high schools. I would encourage you to try again, because something tells me any high school has enough history to make an article, it just takes research. jericho4.0 07:42, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Merge into Fort Wayne, Indiana and delete -Skysmith 08:34, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • This vote suggests we violate Wikipedia policy and copyright law and is invalid. anthony 警告 12:15, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • This is all very trivial stuff. Fine for the school website or, say, Friends Reunited, but not notable enough for Wikipedia. Delete. Average Earthman 09:33, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • If someone considers this school to be trivial, they can simply avoid searching for it. Then they won't see it, and will only see the things they consider to be personally notable. Meanwhile, the tens of thousands of people who have gone to this school will be able to see it, and will consider it to be extremely notable to them. Deletion is not warranted. Factitious 20:37, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
      • None of the schools I went to are notable, and a number of people on Wikipedia have expressed the same view. Just because you think something, it doesn't mean everyone else does. Average Earthman 08:27, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Here's why. Posiduck 12:15, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Schools are inherently notible and important as people spend a large fraction of their life there. You are killing a stub before it has a chance to bloom into something like this.. Would you delete this article? Well, this article would have been deleted at the beginning before it had a chance to grow, think about it. --ShaunMacPherson 16:17, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    I spend a large fraction of my life (over 1/3, in fact) in my bedroom. I spend a similarly large fraction of my life (another 1/3) in the workplace. As for "blooming", that particular school is notable. Your argument is equally screwed as if you'd used Eton College as an example. Chris 05:23, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Actually, if you look a bit more closely at the school you hold up for acclaim, it was nearly deleted while still in stub form. The author realized that he had included too little information and quickly expanded it after the vfd vote began. None of the schools brought up for vote recently have received the same treatment. An article need not be perfect in its first form, but the reason for its inclusion should be readily apparent. This particular article is more than a stub, yet still establishes no grounds for notability (some people think one or two famous alumni are enough, I do not). I am more than happy to change my vote if notability is established within the vfd period. My votes are not knee-jerk reactions like those of some people around here. Indrian 16:26, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
    • I would argue that, while the "model article"'s contents are certainly encyclopedic, the topic is not. I feel it's a shame to eliminate such content, but it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. I'm sure there's another mediawiki somewhere which would be happy to take such content. I would vote to delete Moanalua. --Improv 19:47, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Although I voted againsted keeping Reynolds Secondary, I feel that this one has enough of a start to be meaningful. If we had thousands of these, Wikipedia would be a good source of finding basic information about schools. -- JamesTeterenko 16:27, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Few schools meet the high bar of notability required to be encyclopedic --Improv 17:22, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • merge and redirect to Fort Wayne, Indiana. I feel there is room for a section on the schools of a city. The Steve 19:53, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete, schools are in and of themselves not notable unless otherwise demonstrated, which this article does not. What (American) school does not have a prom? Which one does not have a Principal? -Vina 20:17, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • There's a difference between being notable and being unique. Nothing in the article demonstrates that this school is unique, but tens of thousands of people have had their lives greatly influenced by it. That makes it notable, and in the absence of space considerations, we shouldn't destroy well-written articles about notable topics. Factitious 20:37, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Schools are notable, and this article has a lot of useful information. Factitious 20:37, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. I think this is a bit too detailed to merge with the city page. anthony 警告 21:45, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Create a Fort Wayne, IN School District page, and merge since it's unlikely that each school would be more than a stub, but one on the entire school district may be large enough to create descent articles. PPGMD 21:49, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I would support this. I don't believe this much trivial content should be dumped into Fort Wayne (as others have proposed), but on a school disctrict page it would work. There apparently already is such a page, so merge and redirect to Fort Wayne Community Schools. Cool Hand Luke 23:42, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • I believe a merge would likely violate Wikipedia:Article size, but it's a barely acceptable compromise in this particular case. anthony 警告 12:11, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. From the 47 credits, to copying the architecture of some other building, to the administrators with the flashlights (although that at least gave me something mildly amusing to visualize), not a shred of it is notable: Delete. — Bill 21:59, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep - a school! Trollminator 00:13, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect to its town. For the record, this isn't a "lost VfD." The VfD took place. I do not know where the discussion is/was, but I believe (if you can believe it) it simply didn't get enough votes for consensus. The author stepped forward saying that he was writing up all of the county information. He left it with the implication that he was going to merge and write these things as parts of articles on the local municipalities. Apparently not. At any rate, that stopped the voting. This is a fully written article that belongs in a discussion of its community so long as it has nothing to make the school particular and notable in its own right. Geogre 00:47, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
    • Votng might have occured elsewhere, but the VfD has been sitting on the page with discussion pointing here since August 8. The author has not been on wikipedia for almost two months. Cool Hand Luke 06:01, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep or merge into its town. —siroχo 04:16, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
  • Abstain. Good article about non-notable school. I firmly believe that the article adds no significant value to Wikipedia. I firmly believe its presence does no significant harm to Wikipedia. Therefore I vehemently do not care whether or not the article is deleted. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 16:39, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Non notable. - [[User:Defunkt|Defunkt (talk)]] 17:03, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. older≠wiser 16:57, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep - David Gerard 12:30, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. ugen64 01:24, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. As many have said in the past, having some info is better than having none, especially for newbies. Enochlau 04:44, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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