Talk:Murder of Victoria Climbié

Murder of Victoria Climbié has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 17, 2007	Good article nominee	Listed
October 9, 2007	Good article reassessment	Kept
March 6, 2008	Featured article candidate	Not promoted

Current status: Good article

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DMM-Attachment perspective[edit]

Hello all,

I added the section about the DMM-attachment perspective, which hopefully seems relevant to the case and article, and makes sense. One of the first publications describing the DMM as a comprehensive model was in 2000, and it was not fully published as a teachable model until 2011 (in the citation to the Assessing Adult Attachment book). The other primary model of attachment, known as the ABC+D model, does not have theory to describe this case as the DMM can. In unpublished materials, that model has acknowledged the possibility that overbright greetings might have attachment meaning, but if so, categorizes them as a feature of disorganized attachment. (Duschinsky, Robbie; Solomon, Judith (2017). "Infant disorganized attachment: Clarifying levels of analysis". Clinical Child Psychology and Psychiatry. 22 (4): 524–538. doi:10.1177/1359104516685602. ISSN 1359-1045.) Disorganized attachment, as of 2021, is a limited classification which can only be given in an attachment research setting for children aged 12-20 months. (Granqvist, Pehr; Sroufe, L. Alan; Main, Mary; Hesse, Erik; Steele, Miriam; Ijzendoorn, Marinus van; Solomon, Judith; Goldwyn, Ruth; Zeanah, Charles; Cassidy, Jude; and 33 other authors (2017-11-02). "Disorganized attachment in infancy: a review of the phenomenon and its implications for clinicians and policy-makers". Attachment & Human Development. 19 (6): 534–558. doi:10.1080/14616734.2017.1354040. ISSN 1461-6734. PMC 5600694. PMID 28745146.)

Thank you Christopher for putting a lot of work into a great article. ConflictScience (talk) 22:12, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled[edit]

Talk:Murder of Victoria Climbié/References

Redirects[edit]

Anna Climbié, Marie Thérèse Kouao, and Carl Manning are redirects to this article. Is that appropriate? They are living people, therefore subject to WP:BLP, but there is no corresponding template here. (Also, I was quite surprised to find a search for an entirely different Carl Manning end up here.) David-Sarah Hopwood (talk) 04:16, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The last two are 100% appropriate and good practice. I don't see much benefit in retaining the Anna Climbié redirect though.--Shakehandsman (talk) 01:47, 29 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dates[edit]

As Victoria Climbié was born in 1991 and died in 2000, and the Victoria Climbié Murder Case was not born in 1991 and did not die in 2000, I would like to suggest that this article should either be removed from the Category of 1991 Births and 2000 deaths, or that its name should change to simply Victoria Climbié. (I say 2000 deaths but the article actually says 2001 deaths due to a typo) --Methegreat 23:27, 6 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect date of death[edit]

According to the official report into Victoria Climbié's death, she died on 25th February 2000, not April. Surely this needs changing, as do all the dates in the section on her death? See http://www.victoria-climbie-inquiry.org.uk/finreport/vicstory.htm for verification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smellwood (talk • contribs) 13:33, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
It is stable.
It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
Overall:
a Pass/Fail:

Although written by a single user in one edit, teh referencing, prose, and tone are all GA quality. Illustration with images seems like it would be possible, but it is not necessary. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 18:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA sweeps (kept)[edit]

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Ruslik 06:26, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

Would be good if we could add more images to the article. Christopher Connor (talk) 13:36, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Categorization[edit]

Many of these are categories which are about children, not crimes; this article is not about the girl, but about her murder. --Orange Mike | Talk 01:47, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've made some reply on the undeletion page, but many of these type of articles double up as both a bio and an event so contain a lot of cats. It's not a bad idea really, otherwise we'll have cats like 'child murders' for articles beginning 'murder of' and 'murdered children' for those that don't (maybe we already do?). Christopher Connor (talk) 02:29, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:53, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Murder of Victoria Climbié → Victoria Climbié — Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:04, 22 January 2011 (UTC) Although Climbié is notable for her murder and its aftermath, the article covers her life as well as her death; in my opinion, the title should reflect this. (I note that Victoria Climbié already redirects here.) Alkari (?), 00:29, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

True that the article covers her life, but there would be no article at all if it were not for her horrifying murder. The general rule is not to feature the person, but the deed, where the person is known for this one event only. There is an argument, described in the article, that the child's death has resulted in legislation and guidelines that have an enduring legacy ("a degree of significance"), as covered in WP:IE: "the degree of significance of the event itself and the degree of significance of the individual's role within it should be considered". On balance, though, it is still the child's murder (not her life), along the failure of the system, that is the significant event. My view, in the final analysis, is that the proposed move is not appropriate. The redirects work. Bielle (talk) 19:24, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, if the article was largely about her life and murder then there would be a better case for the move. But less than half of the article is about that — the majority of the material covers the inquiry and aftermath. Bielle's argument is also correct, and a look at similar articles seems to bear this out (although there are some exceptions such as Yvonne Fletcher). Jll (talk) 22:01, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Writing style issues[edit]

Hello Hiiliketowrite,

Thank you for your attention to this article and the many edits you made. I like your change from hit to beat, additions of age in intro, "forced to eat like a dog", "coat hangers and wooden spoons". Do you have an authoritative source for your addition of "had food thrown at her"? I didn't notice that in the Laming report so I took it out. If there is authority it should go back in. I reverted your summary of the details for how she was beaten as they seem useful. On one hand, your summary of the ways she was beaten nicely shortens up the intro, but on the other hand, because the article is long (a good thing), I think a lot of people won't read down to find those very important details. I notice you added the last sentence in the first paragraph about the notoriety of the case, modified it, then took it out. I liked that sentence, it lets readers know immediately why this is a noteworthy case so I added sentence back in, but modified slightly. ConflictScience (talk) 16:36, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]