Template talk:Infobox film

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Full film in infobox[edit]

The full short film Steamboat Willie entered the public domain today and thus can be added into article. Should a full film parameter in infobox be added? (in the style similar to "voice" in Joe Biden infobox for example; in songs infobox we already link the music video) Hddty (talk) 08:28, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In this specific instance, the full film is already in the article. In general, I do not think we should have entire films in an infobox. Primefac (talk) 13:06, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See also Template talk:Infobox film/Archive 33#Add parameter to display the full film. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:36, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I fully support facilitating access to works in the public domain, but I think the infobox should be retained for essential encyclopedic information (which I wouldn't count the full film among). As Primefac points out, Steamboat Willie already enjoys prominent placement in the plot section. But wow, Mickey Mouse is finally in the public domain—a watershed moment. Betty Logan (talk) 15:47, 1 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I support adding a parameter like this to the infobox. I might suggest adding a link to wikisource (similar to what is done for the books infobox). They have a growing collection of movies as well as the scripts listed Bluealbion (talk) 03:12, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

color_process[edit]

Why is color_process limited to animated films? -- Error (talk) 17:03, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How and where would you like to use it? Gonnym (talk) 17:22, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In any kind of film. Currently, the template does not complain if the film is not animated, so I don't understand why the documentation restricts its use. --Error (talk) 17:34, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We don't change instructions on vague use cases. Give an example for the specific place you want to use it in. Gonnym (talk) 17:37, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you justify restricting it to animated films?
I have used it in The Miracle of P. Tinto
--Error (talk) 18:04, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The |color_process= parameter came from the merge of this template with Template:Infobox Hollywood cartoon. Infobox fields are there to summarize the key aspects of the subject. For most modern non-animated films this field is completely pointless. Do you really think adding "color" to modern films is in any way important? I'd also be in support to minimize the usage of this in general as "black and white" and "color" are not color processes but end-results. Notice that other than these two, the others are actual processes. Gonnym (talk) 19:01, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What about films between the 1930s and 1967? There is a reasonable doubt whether the film is color or black and white. Even film images in the article would not clear it because they could be promotional photos in color or from black and white magazines.
If I consider it valuable or not for modern or old films, I don't see why make a difference between animation and non-animation.
In Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Entertainment#Color_or_black_&_white @Loge Reborn: asked for the information.
For films listed in List of black-and-white films produced since 1966, marking them so has information value. IMDB has a field for it, TMDB not, FilmAffinity sometimes lists it in the section for cinematography --Error (talk) 19:40, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What you are asking for is not a color process parameter to be used for non-animated films, you are asking for a parameter that asks if it's black and white or color. A similar parameter in {{Infobox television}} |picture_format= was recently removed from the template Template talk:Infobox television#Remove "Picture format" and "audio format". Anyways, I'll let others respond for now. Gonnym (talk) 19:49, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also miss the color/B&W parameter in the infobox. I think it would be useful, specially for movies from the transition era (also sometimes TV broadcasts colourized versions of old films and you wonder if that kind of color was in the original). And for modern films shoted in B&W it's an important production information. Alexcalamaro (talk) 06:11, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems completely trivial, like adding Dolby Surround Sound. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 11:07, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems to me as though, in cases where it's important, it would be better covered with a mention in the lead supported by sourced prose in the body of the article. We shouldn't be adding to an arguably already bloated infobox just to add fields that are only going to be pertinent in a minority of cases. DonIago (talk) 15:11, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Trivial? In my view it is essential info and a major decision by director/producers before starting film production. The entire film noire genre exists because of this important distinction in the look of a film. Did you know that there are films noire which were made in colour? Loge Reborn (talk) 06:00, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Original theatrical release poster[edit]

This is a continuation of discussions I have had on other talk pages to no avail. Is there a reason why many users are now uploading posters that are not from a film's original theatrical release? The standard for infobox film posters is the film's original theatrical release poster (see WP:FILMPOSTER) It is my understanding that we do not tailor any foreign media to the details of its English edition simply due to this being English Wikipedia. And I'm not sure what happened to make users think we do. Because I have experienced more and more users trying to change articles in favor of US releases. Unless I am seriously mistaken, this is in opposition to longstanding template and community standards.

Are users misintepreting where it says "Nationalities (e.g. "American theatrical release poster", "French release poster", "Japanese release poster", etc.) should be excluded from the caption, unless the poster in question is not from the film's country of origin.? That guideline is presented near the bottom for such unique exceptions when a film is first theatrically released in a country which was not attached to its production. It is not saying just upload an English poster if you want. Οἶδα (talk) 21:54, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Οἶδα: Could you link to those other discussion you've had? That way we can see what other editors seem to be misunderstanding. —El Millo (talk) 22:41, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion at Talk:Anatomy of a Fall#Poster, much of which I have already repeated, pretty much covers the typical reasoning given. I have seen the same behavior most recently at The Taste of Things and Perfect Days. Οἶδα (talk) 23:51, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The principle behind the guideline is to use the artwork that will be most familiar to readers, because its purpose is to visually identify the film. If a film was released under its native title in English-speaking countries then normally there is not a problem using the native poster. If a film is released under a different title, then it makes sense to use a poster image that reflects the title we use on Wikipedia, in order to carry out the function of identifying the film. Betty Logan (talk) 12:28, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. But that is not the "principle behind the guideline", and is evidently not borne out anywhere excluding this talk page as of your reply. You are just philosophising, which is fine but please do not represent it as what "we" do on Wikipedia. The existing guidelines clearly state to use the original theatrical release poster. You are seriously suggesting that a very specific subtextual principle is actually the guidance, but it's not outlined anywhere because.....? I want to be charitable but this a wild proposition and unworthy of your extensive editing history, which seemingly pertains exclusively to film.
And I'm not even sure if your rationale even logically follows. Why would we make an exception for films released under their native title in English-speaking countries if, by definition, their US/UK posters include the native title? But then other than that, we always go with posters that "reflect the title we use on Wikipedia"...Huh? I will repeat what I said earlier: It is my understanding that we do not tailor any given foreign media to the details of its English edition simply due to this being English Wikipedia. I mean,..... are you even familiar with foreign film articles? The posters "reflect the title we use on Wikipedia"??? Every single top article I can find is a contradiction of that "principle". Οἶδα (talk) 21:55, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I will overlook your personal comments and respond to your main point: "You are seriously suggesting that a very specific subtextual principle is actually the guidance, but it's not outlined anywhere because.....'". This is the overarching principle by which use of the poster is permitted. The FUR given at File:Anatomy_of_a_Fall_(2023)_film_poster.jpg states:

Purpose of use in article (WP:NFCC#8): to serve as the primary means of visual identification at the top of the article dedicated to the work in question.

That is the only reason by which the poster appears in the article. It is certainly not "philosophising" on my part, and my rationale logically follows from U.S. copyright law, which regulates the use of non-free content on Wikipedia. If a free image existed that was just as effective in visually identifying the film, then our FUR for using non-free content would not be valid. Therefore, since the only purpose by which the image is legally permitted to appear in the article is one of identification, then I maintain that principle is best served by using a poster by which the title on the poster matches the title of the article. If you disagree with that then that is prerogative, but please do so by disagreeing with what I say, rather than condescending to me. Betty Logan (talk) 20:34, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And I will also overlook my "personal comments", because they only distract from the main, unavoidable fact that your perspective is completely inconsistent with reality. The idea that the standard for film posters is to "reflect the title we use on Wikipedia" is not supported in practise nor by the prevailing template and community standards which are outlined clearly and are longstanding. So longstanding that they predate your usership. You needn't look to new articles like Anatomy of a Fall. Select any significant foreign film article you can think of. Battleship Potemkin, Metropolis, The Rules of the Game, Bicycle Thieves, Rashomon, Seven Samurai, The Seventh Seal, The 400 Blows, Jules and Jim, Breathless, Aguirre, the Wrath of God, Stalker, Wings of Desire, Three Colours: Blue, Spirited Away, Oldboy, A Separation etc etc etc. And this is not cherrypicking; these are all designated as core film articles by the community. I challenge you to actually engage with the reality of what is defined and practised. Anyone who is familiar with foreign film articles already understands this. Pardon if I may have come across as condescending, but please understand that what you have done here is confidently assert what "we" do on Wikipedia, which anyone with access to Wikipedia can easily tell is glaringly disconnected from the reality. I will not apologise for suggesting that what you are proposing is totally wild. A complete contradiction to the established order. The extent to which I can emphasise this has been exhausted.
Also I am not sure why you are now citing the FUR as if it is prescribing what the community contends is the ideal primary means of visual identification. Or as if an original theatrical release poster is not of contextual significance and would not increase readers' understanding of the article topic. The guidelines at WP:FILMPOSTER exist for a reason, and following them avoids all of the inevitable subjectivity issues seen at Anatomy of a Fall. It is the prerogative of myself and every editor on Wikipedia to uphold these standards. Οἶδα (talk) 09:20, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Unlike other media, like books or video games, films are generally presented in their native language and when shown in educational or home video, they are presented as that. As the country of origin is often paramount (not to mention, most films made in their native country are not always going to get an English la guage release, we should use the earliest known country of release as the film poster if display.) Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:57, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Revert them. WP:FILMPOSTER is very clear on this issue. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:19, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. I intend to. Οἶδα (talk) 09:24, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Excepting the delusions of one editor, I presume this to be an affirmation of well established guidelines which some have briefly attempted to usurp. Οἶδα (talk) 09:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should we change "Distributor" to "Presented by"?[edit]

Differentiating production companies and distributors has long been a pain in the rear for film articles. This article by the New York Times which I 'think' @Betty_Logan gave to me (but apologies if it was someone else and I'm mis-remembering) really helped me understand the situation better, in that distributors are normally credited as "Presented by". I've found a similar article which breaks it down as well. Are there situations where this wouldn't work or could it be a benefit? It might be totally the wrong thing to do but I thought I'd raise it since it's always an ongoing issue. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 11:37, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For some Disney films, including those from Marvel and Lucasfilm, Disney does not get the "presented by" credit and instead gets a "distributed by" credit at the end of the film. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:17, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But some of posters says "Disney and Lucasfilm Ltd. present ... a Lucasfilm Ltd. production", "Disney presents a Pixar Animation Studios film", "Marvel Studios presents" etc. That's not a big deal. 2001:D08:2940:EDE2:17AC:6949:24B9:8B9D (talk) 16:50, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I feel like renaming it to "Presented by" has a lot of potential to be very easily confused with the similar |presenter= field in {{Infobox television}} that has a cast member who serves as a presenter or host in which the display value is "Presented by", i.e. Whose Line Is It Anyway? (American TV series), Wheel of Fortune (American game show), The Twilight Zone (1959 TV series), Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 17:49, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand it, the distributor always "presents" the film, meaning "presented by" and "distributed by" can be used synonymously (I don't think it's necessary to account for the few exceptions). I agree with TenTonParasol that "distributor" is the better option out of the two because it's less ambiguous than "presented by". Throast {{ping}} me! (talk | contribs) 19:01, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be worth clarifying under the instructions in that case that a "Presented by credit" can typically indicate the distributor and the "A [insert name] production" the production companies? And that in Association is usually to do with financing and does not immediately mean a production company credit? These two fields have been a nuisance for the many years I've edited on here and it was only recently with those links above that it's become clearer to me so I imagine the same issue is present for others. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 19:12, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would definitely support that. Maybe also provide the sources as references in the instructions if that's possible? Throast {{ping}} me! (talk | contribs) 20:09, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Presented by is not always the distributor and we should not just make a lump assumption that way. Per Deadline, the Presented by credit can be "given to a distributor, exhibitor and/or financier that provides a majority of the budget." So it could be, but its not necessarily the case. Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:21, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That quote is from the Documentary Producers Alliance (source) and as such only applies to documentaries specifically. Throast {{ping}} me! (talk | contribs) 13:15, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, please remember that this infobox is not for US films only. I really doubt that each country uses a "Presented by" credit. Gonnym (talk) 15:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If "released by" credit must be great. 2001:D08:2920:EC18:17AC:B62D:A8F2:2914 (talk) 15:56, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Would readers and editors know or care how to distinguish between Presented by and Distributed by? It appears they mean the same. We have so many edit wars now involving what and where to put companies, I feel this may complicate things more.
One of my pet peeves that is similar to this: if we do not list executive producers, then why do we list the "In association by" companies, which are usually the executive's banner? Sometimes it can be many, non notable ones.
Thanks for that NYT piece about the breakdown of a billing block, very informative. Mike Allen 14:10, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Present is typically a distributor credit usually. But opening credit for James Bond films says "Albert R. Broccoli's Eon Productions presents". 113.210.105.224 (talk) 15:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We usually add that company in the "studio" field. They apparently put a lot of money in the film, but they are not a distribution company. Mike Allen 16:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think the issue with the proposal is that "Presented by" can be ambiguous, and I'm not sure what it means half the time without checking. For example, Steven Spielberg presented Back to the Future, but he served as an executive producer (and there is another example of an ambiguous credit!). In the case of the "distributor" parameter, we know exactly what the function of the company is. I appreciate the sentiment driving the proposal, but it opens up a can of worms. Betty Logan (talk) 16:22, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, because "XXX Studio presents" is a marketing buzzword/jargon. InfiniteNexus (talk) 20:20, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well I guess there's recent discussion at Talk:Mission: Impossible – Fallout#Production company/Distributor. 2001:D08:2923:B68B:17AD:F346:ABF8:F0F8 (talk) 16:56, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Starring[edit]

Hey, the starring section rules need to be changed. The opening and ending credits to a movie are more important than a poster. While I agree that we should use the poster billing block before the movie comes out, after the movie comes out, there is absolutely NO excuse to NOT use the opening or ending credits of the film itself. Loservilleas (talk) 13:50, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're going to need to present a stronger argument than "I don't like it!", especially as your change would make an infobox that many feel is already too long even longer. DonIago (talk) 17:22, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, although I think it might be worthwhile adding a note to MOS:FILMCAST to make it clear that the infobox cast should be based on the poster billing block. Barry Wom (talk) 17:49, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The current wording is deliberately ambiguous so editors can decide whether to follow the poster billing block or the main titles. Most articles go with the former, and that should not be changed without consensus (MOS:VAR), but this should continue to be left to editors' discretion. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:03, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The wording at MOS:FILMCAST is indeed ambiguous, but that's guidelines for the "cast" section of the article. The OP is referring to the "starring" field of the infobox, the guidelines for which explicitly state that the poster billing should be used. Barry Wom (talk) 09:29, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Following the main titles is allowed, but you'll need to gain consensus on the talk page. InfiniteNexus (talk) 18:03, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For the vast majority of modern films, the main title credits are virtually identical to the poster's billing block, hence why that being used is accepted. If there are major differences between that than what happens on screen, then yes, a change can be made. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But like, say for Argylle, there's not only an actor that wasn't listed on the billing block on the poster that was listed in the billing block in the actual movie itself. Also, Henry Cavill, who was listed first in the poster billing block, is listed 5th in the actual movie billing. Would that need to be changed?Loservilleas (talk) 18:43, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The template instructions says "An alternative approach may be determined by local consensus." You need to get consensus at the individual film article. Start a discussion at Talk:Argylle about whether that specific article should use the billing block or the screen credits. A discussion here will not determine that. ~Cheers, TenTonParasol 18:53, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The reason the poster billing block is used is because we often create these articles before the film comes out, and ideally we need to be able to source the billing order. Even after the film comes out, it is easier to verify the details on a poster than it is the film. However, posters can have variations and the film reflects the true billing order. If the credits are different in the film itself I have no problem at all deferring to the film credits, provided the billing order is clear and not obfuscated by highly stylised credits. One example that springs to my mind is Gone with the Wind: Vivien Leigh is second-billed in the film, but she has an "introducing credit" after the other stars on the original poster; this was subsequently corrected on all the re-release posters. Please remember our choice of poster is functional: we want the credit order to be correct and sourcable. If the credit order on the poster is demonstrably and verifiably incorrect then that is an appropriate reason for applying WP:IAR and forming a local consensus. Betty Logan (talk) 03:17, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could Costume Design be added as a parameter?[edit]

I realize that heads might explode, fearing a domino effect that too many will follow. But hear me out!

Much like Editing, Cinematography, and Score, Costume Design is usually a single-person job, at least the one who is the main credited person. For example, Edith Head and her plethora of Oscar nominations/wins.

It wouldn't be like Sound, VFX, Makeup/Hair, or Production Design (combining set-deco & art-dir.)—that'd be excess. Too many individuals, under one parameter, to list.

But I believe firmly that Costume Design would be a worthwhile parameter. And IF it already is and I somehow overlooked it, forgive me for the bother here. I page-searched "costume" though, so I don't believe it is included or worded in any other way. Their contributions are valuable and some legendary people's work have stamped eternal marks on our culture, such as Tim Burton movies, Oz, Disney stuff, Audrey Hepburn's iconic looks, and so forth.

Please consider it as an option and discuss it. Thanks. --Cinemaniac86TalkStalk 10:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you search the archives for this page, you'll see this has been discussed before on multiple occasions. I'd recommend reviewing those discussions and refactoring your proposal to address the previously expressed concerns. DonIago (talk) 14:58, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Co-director[edit]

With all the sections such as director, writer, etc, I think it's necessary to add a "co-director" section for movies who have co-directors. 1ArcticDude (talk) 11:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The infobox says "Directed by", and in most situations, it's typically sufficient to just use {{plainlist| before the first # or * bullet points and after the last one—for the 2 or more directors in question. --Cinemaniac86TalkStalk 12:18, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are these acceptable substitutes in the absence of posters? I see many old Hollywood cartoon shorts (especially Merrie Melodies and Looney Tunes) using them, but Krimuk2.0 objects to a lobby card of Soldier being used. Kailash29792 (talk) 02:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If there is no poster image, I see no issue with a lobby-card image. WP:NFC says cover art is permitted for visual identification. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 03:26, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. And the film poster article itself says, "Lobby cards are similar to posters but smaller". Kailash29792 (talk) 04:09, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"If there is no poster image" is key. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 05:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a poster image? I took a quick look but didn't find one. If there is one, it can be used instead of the lobby card. I don't think there has to be nothing until a poster image can be found. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 12:32, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your decision is good Erik. Something instead of nothing, since lobby cards are posters. Hope you didn't search for the namesake American film which came the same year. Kailash29792 (talk) 15:45, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Template-protected edit request on 22 March 2024[edit]

Hello there,

I'm Jannie an art student in the University of Ghana.

I will like to use your template to create a Wikipedia page for a movie.

This will help people in Ghana and across the world to read about the movie and possibly refer others to watch.

I hope my request will meet your consideration and approval.

Thank you Jannie-semenyo (talk) 17:49, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: This talk page is for improvements to Template:Infobox film. Any page may use this template by transcluding it through placing {{Infobox film}} in the page's source. Any film article must meet the notability guideline for movies. For further assistance, please visit the Teahouse. SWinxy (talk) 20:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]