Talk:Berlin Victory Column

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Untitled[edit]

I assume that the statue atop the column is a goddess, but what goddess? -- Jmabel 00:51, Aug 17, 2004 (UTC)

It is "Germania". It was to Germany more or less that what was "uncle sam" to the U.S. (unsigned, User:Morgenstern Mar 19, 2005)

Meanwhile, someone has written in the article that it is Victoria, which seems equally reasonable. Morgenstern, are you saying that the article is wrong? -- Jmabel | Talk 03:16, Mar 20, 2005 (UTC)

Link may belong somewhere, but...[edit]

I cut this link

from the article. It may well belong in Wikipedia somewhere, may even merit a disambiguation page for Siegessäule and an article or its own, but it does not belong here: no one calls the magazine "Berlin victory column". -- Jmabel | Talk 05:48, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Title => Siegessäule ?[edit]

I know that Wikipedia policy is to use English names for things wherever possible, but I have never heard anyone talk about the "Berlin victory column", and it is not the place of Wikipedia to invent new translations for things without English names. The original text of this article seems to have come from an automated translation, which would of course have translated Siegessäule as "victory column", because automated translators are, generally, stupid. Can we please change this article to Siegessäule? --Stemonitis 15:24, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't have a strong opinion, but, yes, I have heard it called this by English speakers at least as often as I've heard them use the German Siegessäule. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:39, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I would say that names of town, cities, formal or informal areas are translated if 1. the place is known in the UK (or US/Australia etc) and 2. the local name is difficult to pronounce. This goes for monuments and buildnings too, I think. And this is indeed the same in all languages. Examples:
  • Vienna - famous enough, but "Wien" doesn't work equally well. Rome & "Roma", Prague & "Praha", Copenhagen & "København" - Spain & "España", Poland & "Polska", Brittany & "Bretagne" , Eiffel Tower & "Tour Eiffel". It's really about a kind of honor, but limited to how well known it is (in another language) and if the local name is difficult to pronounce. In the case of Siegessäule, at least the pronouncing part is met, so this ultimately comes down to how well known this monument is, in English (and through its history). It wouldn't surprise me if it's well known in the UK. During 19th century the British-German ties were very strong. Boeing720 (talk) 07:58, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Math on height of column[edit]

This doesn't quite add up:

height of merely 50.66 meters opposite the Reichstag building.
At the same time, the pillar was augmented by another 7.5 meters, giving it its present height of 66.89 meters.

50.66+7.5 is 58.16, not 66.89. Which of the three numbers is wrong? --Saforrest 19:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the height of the statue has not been included, i.e. 50.66+7.5+8.3 = 66.46. I know its not exactly right, but its close. 84.130.205.48 15:43, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

damage[edit]

The monument survived World War II without much damage

Can this be qualified in some way? I visited the monument yesterday and it appeared to me to have a lot of superficial damage. The marble is heavily pock-marked (bullet holes?!) and the bronze friezes around the base have parts missing (e.g. heads chipped away). There's also an area on the base where lettering appears to have been removed, although I wasn't able to work out what it originally said. 217.76.102.162 16:56, 6 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I visited the monument in 2014 and noticed some of the same types of damage. But the fact you have to look for it to really notice I think qualifies as not much damage.Rja13ww33 (talk) 22:28, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Really, Really Needs Clean-up[edit]

Since when do cannon have "pipes"? This article is clearly written by a non-native English speaker. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.111.71.197 (talk • contribs) 16:35, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removed for POV and One Spelling Error[edit]

It is an interesting note that the Obama rally on July 24th 2008 was designed to be a political rally and was attended well (200,000), the enthusiasm exhibited by the German people was not as overwhelming as would have been expected. The effort was more of a "rock star" like appearance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.163.65.9 (talk • contribs) 22:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

...but then edited without signature by RakosKW — Preceding unsigned comment added by RakosKW (talk • contribs) 01:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

^^^ I would have to agree. Is this even encyclopedic? --99.149.122.219 (talk) 00:54, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Is the inclusion of the fact that Obama held a rally there even remotely encyclopedic???

— Preceding unsigned comment added by RakosKW (talk • contribs) 01:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • If it is, we should mention that McCain's detractors referred to the column incorrectly as the Washington Monument or the Leaning Tower of Pisa and said it should not have been in his ad, that they were phallic symbols.

If it isn't then the results of that rally should be included in it's edited form for the world to see! And the fact that the rally was meant (at least in Americans eyes)to evoke the memory of the two American leaders Kennedy and Reagan then why would it not be an appropriate addition to this wiki? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ratherthanlater (talk • contribs) 13:38, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It seems pretty notable that a US Presidential candidate held a 200k person rally there. I'm assuming opposition to this note is political: Large gatherings of people, record crowds, notable political occurences, etc. are generally included in the location's article. -- CelestialRender. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.189.20.216 (talk • contribs) 12:59, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that it is perfectly appropriate to make mention of Obama's speech. It is certainly notable when an American presidential candidate of any party gives the biggest speech (in terms of attendance) of his campaign on foreign soil. Plus, it's mentioned in the German Wikipedia article, so why not in the English one? --Tsk070 (talk) 19:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Possible Error in Translation[edit]

However, several sections remain in France.

I didn't see this in any of the other language versions, as far as I am able to read those; nor is there a source for it. Could it be that it comes from a misunderstanding of the German section

Erst zur 750-Jahrfeier Berlins im Jahr 1987 kamen die Reliefs aus Paris wieder zurück und wurden in bewusst fragmentarischem Zustand, zusammen mit dem in Berlin verbliebenen Relief, wieder am Sockel angebracht., notably the "fragmentary" part?

I could imagine someone interpreted this as sections having remained in France; however what it actually says is "[...] the reliefs purposefully were not restored before re-mounting [...]", which makes sense, as neither the GDR nor France had an interest in "restoring fromer glory" of these plates even physically - rather, leaving them like that would pronounce a certain "museum character".

So if nobody disagrees, I'll change the article in this sense. 82.119.23.222 (talk) 23:41, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]


GDR? The Siegessäule has never been on GDR territory. It was one of the major landmarks of West Berlin. 77.25.48.90 (talk) 08:45, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what this means[edit]

"Without a British-American veto, the French would have dynamited the monument after the war it having been located at exactly 1500 meters, length of the Roman mile, from the proposed new north-south triumphal way of the Nazis in line with the Imperial Victory Avenue in the Tiergarten destroyed by American air raids in 1945." Arthurian Legend (talk) 01:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Berlin had four sectors after the war, the French sector was not where the Siegessäule is. The idea to dynamite it was obviously born from hate and perhaps German troops had dynamited something in Paris when they occupied it. I haven't heard that story when I grew up in West Berlin but we were governed by the Allies. This sounds like the French suggested to dynamite the column in a meeting but the British and American allied voted against that. Open is the question if that meeting also had a Soviet delegate who'd voted for the proposal?
I originally came here to see if they mentioned that relocation of the column meant they numbered every brick/stone when dismantling it so it could be rebuilt properly again. We learned that in school. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:58CF:75D2:8C24:AFD2 (talk) 05:52, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Headline photo.[edit]

The headline photo is out of date. The column was cleaned thoroughly under scaffolding several years after that shot. The shot pre-cleaning shows an almost black stonework. Post-cleaaning the stonewoork is honey golden (see detail photo underneath). The headline photo is also crooked (there is a tilt of as much as 3 degrees) , poory composed and badly exposed. the monumennt and the article deserve better than this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grzillion (talk • contribs) 14:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Flag day in Poland[edit]

  • Under Communists flags were removed on May the 2nd, to prevent May the 3rd commemoration.
  • May the 2nd is a day between two feasts, so a small feast has been invented.Xx236 (talk) 07:52, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Golden Lizzy" ?[edit]

Goldelse is put together of Gold + Else ,and "Else" is a female name. Perhaps a shortening of Elisabet. I would say "Golden Elsie" would be better. Else - Lizzy ??? Boeing720 (talk) 07:35, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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