Talk:UIC classification of locomotive axle arrangements

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December 2004[edit]

When is a 0 (zero) used instead of lower-case 'o'? I never see that. —Morven 17:03, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

I've seen it in rail road mags and model catalogues. Plus some web sites: [1]

Or Google for "wheel arrangement" B0. You get a pretty big list.

Spearhead 19:55, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

primes[edit]

Is the final prime in B'B' needed? What about Bo'(A1A), the prime in the middle looks superfluous... Finally shouldn't 1′D1′ be 1'D'1 if the final axle is in a bogie of its own? Railwayfan2005 (talk) 20:43, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See the clarified description of primes and brackets. In your examples both primes are needed, otherwise the second B and the Bo respectively would be mounted directly on the locomotive body. — Aldaron • T/C 22:38, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

UIC Kodex 650 page 4 writes "an apostrophe" for wheels in separate frames. So why call this a prime? --Sveins (talk) 22:07, 4 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rename article[edit]

The UIC also has classification systems for locomotives, passenger coaches and goods wagons. See the articles on UIC identification marking for tractive stock, UIC classification of railway coaches and UIC classification of goods wagons. Shouldn't this therefore be retitled something like UIC classification of locomotive axle arrangements (or shorter still UIC locomotive axle classification) to distinguish it from the others? --Bermicourt (talk) 22:11, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Southern Railway[edit]

The Southern Railway once used a different system, but did not other class remain as they were before? Tabletop (talk) 08:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Examples[edit]

Perhaps it's good idea to link to an articles about a real locomotives for each example given?--ospalh (talk) 10:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mallet vs Articulated[edit]

The example for brackets mentions Mallet, but cites the Big Boy, which (if I understand correctly) isn't a Mallet, only an articulated (the distinction being the compound expansion.) Wouldn't the text more correctly read " Mallet and other articulated locomotives can be indicated..." (emphasis mine.) -- 65.215.221.182 (talk) 21:12, 18 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

This reference is inaccesible "Standard designation of axle arrangement on locomotives and multiple-unit sets" (PDF).

Sf5xeplus (talk) 00:16, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Use of lower-case o[edit]

The article states that a lower case 'o' means each axle has its own electric traction motor. While that is definitely the most common situation, the DRB Class 19.10 had a separate steam motor for each axle and got classified as a 1'Do1' in all the literature I could find about it. So shouldn't it simply read that each axle has its own driving motor, instead of saying that it has to be electric? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.198.53.171 (talk) 20:37, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are right (having checked with de.wiki), so I have deleted "electric" before "traction motors". --Bermicourt (talk) 16:49, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

German?[edit]

@Andy Dingley, Voidxor, Tabletop, and KnightMove: do you know why the lead says this is "also known as German classification"? German classification redirects here because...? The cited source The Railway Data File. Published by Silverdale Books 2000. p. 52. ISBN 1-85605-499-3 seems to lack things like a named author. Who is Silverdale Books? Do any other sources say this is known as German classification?--Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:08, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's not German classification. It's used in Germany (also France and Poland), it's often called German classification, but the "I" in UIC is "International" (even "Internationale", because the name is in French, not German). This is an international standards body, originally founded in Italy, Switzerland and France (everything takes at least three meetings and ends up in Paris). To really spend money, have a head office in the 15th arrondisement. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:29, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Why is it often called German? Was it originally a German system that was adopted internationally, like the metric system began in France? Should German classification redirect here? --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:41, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It is based on a system originally developed in 1908 by the Union of German Railway Administrations. --Bermicourt (talk) 22:17, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nonetheless, I fail to find a valid source for that expression being used in English. This is almost the only example not being a Wikipedia clone:

"Welcome to the Sweden's electric locomotives page! ... Most of the locomotives in the list have either Swedish or German classification. I agree with the doubts of Dennis Bratland. Unless a reliable source is provided, the term should be removed & the redirect be deleted. --KnightMove (talk) 22:44, 18 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

How about the 1982 New Zealand Railway Observer Vols 39-40, p. 160, which says "Within this comprehensive German classification came the small "o" to denote uncoupled driving axles, such as Co Co...." or the 1914 General Electric Review Vol 17 which says "The German classification distinguishes between driven and non-driven axles..." There are other sources, but I haven't got time to add them all. Bermicourt (talk) 08:16, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's also known as the "German system", so in Steam Locomotives (Kalla-Bishop and Greggio, 1985) it states that "The International Union of Railways (UIC) has standardised the German system internationally and it is now used for electric and diesel locomotives. Thus an electric locomotive with two four-wheel bogies and all axles driven is a B-B or BB..." HTH. Bermicourt (talk) 08:43, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thanks. While this IMHO still leaves some doubt whether "German classification/system" is used as a proper name here or just as a statement "a classification/system from Germany", I regard this as sufficient.

Anyway, the redirect should be replaced by a disambiguation page with German wine classification and maybe others. --KnightMove (talk) 09:57, 20 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

D'D h4vt[edit]

Why is it marked as a hypothetical example? There was actually such a locomotive class, the Bavarian Gt 2×4/4, which had this axle arrangement and was even classified as a Freight Traffic Locomotive by the Reichsbahn in 1923. Universal-Interessierter^de (talk (de)) 23:14, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]