Talk:Northern Sotho

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On 8 October 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Pedi language. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Untitled[edit]

Sepedi is the only language that was standardised and written in our books. But to refer to Northern Sotho as the language is wrong because that language was used by apartheid regime to differentiate Bapedi from Batswana (as Western Sotho) and Basotho (as Southern Sotho). The Batswana denied to use Western Sotho as official because they were not Basotho while Bapedi and Basotho changed their languages to epedi and Sesotho, respectively, after 1994.

To refer to Balobedu, Bapulana, Barwa, Bakone and others as Basotho is totally wrong because they are neither Basotho nor from Lesotho. With some of our people with Tswana, Swati, Ndebele,etc background it would be unfair to refer to them as Basotho while they have never met Moshoeshoe.

If there are people who think they are not Bapedi that doesn't make them Basotho ba Lebowa. Sesotho sa Lebowa is the language which only focused on the people in the former Lebowa Bantustan while some Sepedi-speaking are in Mpumalang and Gauteng.

Sepedi is actually a language in its own right - infact it is the "only" offically provided northern sotho language (there are other northern languages like setsonga). There are lots of dialects for the language: I was rather fortunate (perhaps?) to have lived in many parts of South Africa.

In the North of South Africa people speak:

* Phalaborwa: Sepedi(formal, sepulana, sepelle), zulu, tsonga etc
* Tzaneen: Sepedi(formal, senkhere, selobedu, sagamodjadji) etc
* Moletsi: Sepedi(formal, semmotwana[very close to formal - south sotho'ish])
* Masemola: Sepedi( formal, serwa)
* Botlokwa: Sepedi(Formal,setlokwa)
* Sekhukhune: Sepedi(formal, se ntwane also known as segakopa), isindebele

This is by no means exhaustive. The fact is Sepedi is the formal language North sotho language. Many of the Northern sotho dialects are a result of influences from the Ndebele, Tsonga, Venda and perhaps other languages such Karanga from the great Zimbabwe.

But then again ... The learned people say Sepedi is just a dialect in Nothern Sotho Languages http://winscp.vse.cz/download2.php?file=winscp220source.zip

The Person who wrote the previous article is obviously a Sepedi speaking person. Sepedi gained popularity because it was one of the first N.Sotho groups to be met by the missionaries. If the missionaries came in from the North who knows, maybe Northern Sotho would be called Setlokwa, and languages like Pedi given a lowly status of a dialect.

I am from Potgietersrus, I speak Northern Sotho, my Northern Sotho is more close to Setswana than it is to Sepedi. Go figure...

Falacy[edit]

Northern Sesotho is not a language, but a group of languages, which are so-called because they are not Sesotho or Setswana. That, as far as I can tell, is the only common feature among the languages. As such, the various Northern Sesotho languages are not dialects of anything. -Zyxoas (not logged in) 198.54.202.210

Problems with Sesotho sa Leboa setup[edit]

Because the language is made up of many other languages, the written formal language doesn't have formal month names( too many to pick from).
The are some languages which are closer to Setwana than they are to Sepedi, due to regional proximity to batswana, then you wonder?

Sesotho sa Leboa[edit]

Would that name be preferable guys? I've just checked the Constitution Website(see http://www.constitutionalcourt.org.za/site/constitution/english-web/interim/ch1.html) and it refers to the official languages of South Africa as (all the others, obviously) and Sesotho sa Leboa. I'm not quite sure what that means - is it simply 'Northern Sotho' in Northern Sotho? :) Or is it the real name? Joziboy

Sesotho sa Leboa is "Northern Sotho" in Northern Sotho (literally "Sotho of the north"). There is a fashion amongst some not to use the English names for the African languages when speaking English (notably the government and some people doing their best to be politically correct). Since this is the English Wikipedia, we can really just use the English name (Northern Sotho), just as we do for other languages (French, German, etc.) --09:39, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree; let's just stick to 'Northern Sotho'. — mark ✎ 11:35, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The official spelling is "Sesotho sa Leboa", not "Sesotho sa Lebowa". The former is used by the Pan South African Language Board and the National Lexicography Unit for Northern Sotho and just about everyone else in the country. User:David Joffe 10 November 2006

Northern Sotho er language template[edit]

If you are a native speaker of Northern Sotho then you can help translate this template into your own language:

nso

This user is a native speaker of Sepedi.

Edit

--Amazonien (talk) 03:13, 22 January 2009 (UTC) please write and talk about what you know. it appears to me that you do not have facts on the Basothotribe — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.18.6.54 (talk) 14:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sepedi Test Wiki[edit]

If you can contribute on Wiki articles in Sepedi, please help get the project going at Sepedi Test-Wikipedia. Any contribution will be appreciated.

Mohau (talk) 10:28, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bongumusa Bongumusa Mthalane (talk) 15:28, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Moved discussion from the article[edit]

I've removed this from the article:

Lets debate: =Sepedi or Northern Sotho= What is in the name. (M.K.Makgakga) I found it very strange and intriguing to insinuate that Sepedi is not the same as Northern Sotho. To say the two are totally different is a misnomer. To put record straight, there is nothing called "Non-Pedi" Northern Sotho dialects. The word Sepedi originates from the word "Bopedi". Geographically, "Bopedi" is the northern part of the old South Africa, starting from Pretoria. This area has historically been the kingdom of the Great King Sekhukhuni, the ruler of Bapedi. To that effect, it should be understood that Sepedi as a languege has different dialects. These dialects include amongst others Setlokwa, Sepulana, Selobedu, Sebirwa, Sehananwa and others. You don't have to conduct any research to understand and know about this. Balobedu, the people who speaks Sepedi with Selobedu dialect were originally not from within the boundaries of colonial South Africa. They came from far north and settled in Bopedi. That is why they have developed what other people regard as "funny" Sepedi dialect. To substantiate my argument, I refer to the written language which is axactly the same. When the Batlokwa, Mapulana, Balobedu and others write when they communicate, they write exactly what is known as Sepedi. It should be understood and remembered that All Sotho languages have dialects.

It was posted by 196.36.203.161 (talk · contribs); I've put it here since discussion of this type is not appropriate in article-space. - htonl (talk) 12:07, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Language Phonology[edit]

Hello Wikipedians, I am fascinated to know what the phonology of the Sepedi language is. What reliable sources are there to obtain the phonological information? Any information would be grateful. Thank you. Fdomanico51997 (talk) 17:17, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sepedi vs Northern Sotho[edit]

Hi,

I'm just curious about languages and South Africa, but I am by no means an expert. I've been trying to understand the confusion around the Sepedi vs. Northern Sotho naming.

I've made a few changes. I don't have an opinion on the matter. I'm just trying to clean up the referencing and self-contradictions:

I removed the word "incorrectly", referring to the "Sepedi" name. It is a point of view, it is unreferenced, and it was added by an anonymous user.
I removed the word "erroneously" from the "Confusion" paragraph. It is a point of view, it is unreferenced, and it was added by an anonymous user.
I added a few "citation needed" tags. This is not an expression of my doubt about the truth of the statements. They sound sensible, but need a citation.
I added a short paragraph about the name in the constitution.

This is only a basic cleanup, and it still doesn't clarify everything. Somebody who is an expert should add better-referenced information about this. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 13:27, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Amir, I am glad that you too are interested in the NORTHERN Sotho language, I too I am not an expect but try to clean up the page a bit. Its a bit of a mess. Nothern sotho is a container language houses a lot of the dialects related to Sepedi and other Sotho Tswana languages that are not Sotho or Tswana. Northern Sotho heavily uses Sepedi as its standard dialect - so technically you can say that the language is Sepedi, but a lot of the other clans are don't want to be called by another clans name. Interestingly enough, in the SA English constitution Sepedi is listed as an official langauge. EuKoketsolion (talk) 12:30, 19 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Sotho Needs to Change to Pedi Language[edit]

Hi all, please not that there ia no such thing as Northern Sotho, Pedi is governed by https://www.pansalb.org/ and is the only language recognised by the South African constitution, languages such as Lobedu are unwritten and arent administrated by a languages board. Therefor Pedi is the right term to use. EuKoketsolion (talk) 14:09, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 October 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 09:41, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Sotho language → Pedi language – Given that the South African constitution and the Pan South African Language Board officially recognize Pedi as a language, there are even stronger reasons to change the language labeling from "Northern Sotho" to "Pedi language." The South African constitution and the Pan South African Language Board's official recognition of Pedi as a language underscore its importance and distinctiveness. Using "Pedi language" aligns with this legal recognition. https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/201703/40733gen244.pdf EuKoketsolion (talk) 10:25, 8 October 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 10:43, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To add weight to this arguments, the 2022 South African census lists sepedi has a the main language and not Northern Sotho EuKoketsolion (talk) 07:19, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Does it mean anything that the Northern Sotho Wikipedia (which lables itself "la Ensaeklopedia ka Sepedi") titles the article Sesotho sa Leboa (i.e., Northern Sotho)? It might not; just wondering. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 10:47, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. The South African form should predominate here. However, it definitely isn't Pedi, and a quick Google seems to show Northern Sotho often listed before "Sepedi". I'd say to keep it at Northern Sotho out of inertia, but if it was moved, it'd be to Sepedi language. See [1] for a 2021 example which uses both, but Northern Sotho first. That said, sources are clearly sparse here. SnowFire (talk) 22:42, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.