Talk:Malaclypse the Younger

Untitled

Isn't the Malaclypse of Illuminatus!, the ancient philosopher dude, supposed to be Malaclypse the Elder? It's been a while since I read the book...

I believe both Malaclypsi appeared in the book, the elder and the younger.

Pope?

I'm removing this bit about the polyfather being equivalent to Pope because I think it's entirely untrue. Unless you mean =Pope=, and that's only true because all Discordians are =Pope='s. If someone can offer some argument for it, please put it back in. bmearns, KSC_(talk) 16:53, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Elder the Father?

I don't recall the Mal the Elder being the father of Mal-2, but I'll double check. If anyone has any information one way or the other, please note it here and update the article if neccessary. bmearns, KSC_(talk) 16:56, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The Principia only states that he is "patron and namesake" of Mal-2--Das-g (talk) 02:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

References

Identity

I do not think there remains any serious dispute over the identity of Malaclypse the Younger as Greg Hill. The theories regarding Timothy Leary and Richard Nixon were mentioned in Robert Anton Wilson's foreword to Principia Discordia ed.4, and can not be found in any primary source other than that; and at least the latter is obviously a joke. Greg Hill is never named in the newer editions of Principia Discordia (except in the afterword), but in the recently-uncovered First Edition, he and Kerry Thornley identify themselves by name. I think the section about his identity should be reworded to express it as a purely historical debate; it's all but certain by now. --Adam Atlas 16:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Dates

Why are there no dates in this article? Mention of Nixon makes me think this might be 1970's but otherwise it could also be 15th century Italy for all I know... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.174.22 (talk) 14:03, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Rewrite needed with factual basis

Malaclypse the younger is a FICTIONAL character invented by a REAL person, Robert Anton Wilson. This article contains numerous, HUMEROUS statements of nonsense, such as “In 2006 a copy of the first edition of the Principia Discordia was discovered in the John F. Kennedy Assassination Archive, proving Malaclypse the Younger to be Gregory Hill,” which are neither factual, verifiable, nor encyclopedic. Yeah, I get it, it’s a funny funny joke but it also undermines the credibility of Wikipedia as a whole to have this kind of gibberish in here. A rewrite which explains this is an article about a FICTIONAL character would be appropriate Rich.lewis (talk) 16:49, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't tell if you're joking or not. Malaclypse was a real person, a copy of the Principia was really found in the JFK archive, and the object known as "Xena" was really given the official name "Eris". I think the burden is on you to show that these things didn't happen. DenisMoskowitz (talk) 22:17, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The burden to show that facts ARE verifiable is on whoever put the facts in Wikipedia in the first place. It is logically impossible to show anything did NOT happen or does NOT exist, that is you can't prove a negative. I don't wish to prove any of these things did not happen, but if they DID happen I'd like a reference to a verifiable source included in the article, either that or the statements that they ARE fact be removed. And, lets please not get the IAU involved in this either, they've got nothing to do with it. 131.107.0.73 (talk) 17:24, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Based on the Village Pump discussion it seems like Malaclypse's existence has been accepted. I'm removing the hoax tag. DenisMoskowitz (talk) 19:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone still dispute the factual accuracy of the article, or can we go ahead and remove the disputed tag, too? Peregrinoerick (talk) 18:12, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm OK with the removal. I skimmed the article a bit, and fantasy and reality seem to be clearly separated now --Enric Naval (talk) 20:16, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

merge of greg hill

I proposed to merge Gregory_Hill_(writer) inside this article, since his claim to notability is having this fictional character living inside of him. See the Talk:Kerry_Wendell_Thornley and the link there to village pump discussion --Enric Naval (talk) 10:34, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Well I agree too. the only statement on the Greg hill page is a reference here. If that's not a true statement the "other" Greg Hill article is not noteworthy anyway. 131.107.0.73 (talk) 17:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the Greg Hill article really ought to be just a redirect to Malaclypse the Younger, since that's the name under which he's actually a notable figure. Peregrinoerick (talk) 00:58, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

By now, it is. --Thnidu (talk) 00:11, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

No sources, not funny

I (sometimes) get Discordian joke(s), I hope. However, this article is not even funny or profound. The non-RSes, if any, are obsolete by now so the article has turned into yet another hoax page. Let us fix it so that it describes a Wikipedia-worthy person or concept. Zezen (talk) 17:06, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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JFK "First edition"

Article states:

In 2006, a copy of the first edition of the Principia Discordia was claimed to have been discovered in the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection in the National Archives, proving Malaclypse the Younger to be Gregory Hill.[5]

This is, however, false. These documents are not the whole first edition (which is reproduced in Adam Gorightly's Historia Discordia), but are some pages of early editions and other assorted material. I know I wrote about this is my book Chasing Eris, but don't want to violate rules on self-promotion, however I'm sure there's other sources that will support this change. 213.205.242.7 (talk) 10:10, 15 February 2020 (UTC) (Clutterbuck)

I'm adding a reference and sources as requested. Alden Loveshade (talk) 00:29, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Clarification on Award

An editor removed reference to the Order of the Pineapple, making the statement "Removed reference to Order of the Pineapple. This was created after Kerry Thornley's death." The editor may be mistaking Kerry Thornley with his associate Gregory Hill, who reportedly wrote as Malacylpse the Younger.

As their Wikipedia articles state, Kerry Wendell Thornley passed away in 1998; Greg Hill died in 2000. An Order of the Pineapple certificate dated 1994 is featured on the kerrythornley.com website at http://www.kerrythornley.com/misc/pineapple.html. The Order of the Pineapple website (with which I am admittedly somewhat associated) at op.loveshade.org says the award was first presented in 1982. While not an "official" source, the Order of the Pineapple Wiki at pineapple.fandom.com includes photos and statements from people named to the order who were involved before 1998.

Therefore I have restored the reference to the Order. Alden Loveshade (talk) 23:19, 18 March 2021 (UTC)