Talk:Gold Glove Award

Merge

Oops. Missed "Gold Glove" entirely. Thanks for merging the articles.

RadicalBender 04:23, 27 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Disagree with mention of Silver Bat award

I think this should be removed:

At the time, there was an award called the "Silver Bat," which was awarded by Hillerich & Bradsby, the Major League Baseball bat provider of the time, to the league's leading hitters, but there was no award for fielding.

because the Silver Bat is given to the player in the league with the highest batting average, and I don't think its one per position. This doesn't seem anything like the Gold Glove award, which is subjective and is one per position.

Any thoughts please?

Mattingly23 15:24, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

No need to omit, it simply shows that the award for batting average came first.

Controversial Gold Gloves

I think the main entry would benefit from some discussion of the often controversial and/or arbitrary nature of the Gold Glove awards. For example, Rafael Palmeiro winning the 1999 American League Gold Glove at first base even though he only played 28 games at the position during that season (he played 135 as the Designated Hitter). Some degree of research would be required to determine if this was the fewest number of starts for a past winner in the award's history, but it's certainly absurd considering a 162-game regular season. This is given a line in the main entry but is a big deal in baseball circles! http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/palmera01.shtml

In this year's American League awards Derek Jeter wins again as "best fielder" at shortstop despite committing twice as many errors (15) as Boston shortstop Alex Gonzalez (7) and despite sporting a lower fielding percentage (.975 to .985). Last year Torii Hunter won one in the American League outfield despite playing little over half a season (98 games). Oakland second baseman Mark Ellis this year had one of (if not the) the best fielding percentages in the history of baseball for a second baseman this year (.997) and was somehow overlooked.

Sound reasonable?Jimsurge74 21:12, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

It would be helpful to identify the criteria used to choose a Gold Glove recipient. You mention that coaches and fans can vote but you do not mention what that vote is based upon. What percentages are reviewed, errors, games played, etc? T.A. S. 66.82.9.75 11:59, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Better than Palmeiro in 1999, also Cabrera made over 20 errors in 2001 when he won his so we'll never really know what the votes are really based on Iamhungey (talk) 14:05, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Gold Glove Award winners' lists

There is an error in the lists I believe. Griffey Jr. and Suzuki both have 10 gold gloves, yet Willie Mays with 8 is highlighted to have the most. I don't know how to change this so someone should

Killervogel5 left me a message regarding some edits I'd made to the sublists by position (e.g. List of Gold Glove Award winners at shortstop, etc.).

Hi. I just wanted to note to you that I'm reverting your edits to the leads of these lists. The first paragraphs of these lists are what is known as "boilerplate text". These lists are going to eventually be part of a featured topic, and it's common for lists with a common theme or thread to start in the same way. For an example, see the Silver Slugger Award winners lists. If you have any questions, you can ask me at my talk page. Thanks.

Here's my response (on this page for discussion).

While you're correct that similar lists often start with similar sections, I think you're overlooking the details of why that text would (or would not) be useful in an article. Fundamentally, you don't need to go into detail about things like the fact that the award is a gold lamé glove, because that sort of thing is covered in detail in the main article, and because it has nothing to do with (for example) third base. When people look up the lists of winners, they probably want to read about the winners, and the nature of the Gold Glove for that position. The details of voting (managers & coaches, etc.), and the years in which the award was awarded in exceptional ways aren't really necessary here, because they're also covered in the main article. Instead, when one of those anomalies in awarding the Gold Glove deals with a particular position, then discuss it in that position's article. Otherwise, you're just leaving unexplained and out-of-context facts.

Compare the boilerplate text in featured lists like List of number-one Billboard Top Latin Albums of 2001 (or any other recent year), with what you're suggesting in this article. There's only a small bit of explanatory text, and then it immediately begins to discuss the particulars of that year—note that in the linked main article, it fills in the details, but that in the individual lists, it's only a very short summary. The way you've done it, the text in the main article is copied verbatim, and repeated unnecessarily. Essentially, the way you've done it with the Gold Gloves, it would be as if on each sub-list, you had this:

Top Latin Albums is a record chart published by Billboard magazine and is labeled as the most important music chart for Spanish language, full-length albums in the American music market. Like all Billboard album charts, the chart is based on sales. Nielsen SoundScan compiles the sales data from merchants representing more than 90 percent of the U.S. music retail market. The sample includes sales at music stores, the music departments of electronics and department stores, direct-to-consumer transactions, and Internet sales of physical albums or digital downloads. A limited array of verifiable sales from concert venues is also tabulated. Before this chart, all Latin music information was featured on the Latin Pop Albums chart, which began in June 29, 1985, and is still running along with the Regional Mexican Albums chart. The Latin Pop Albums chart features music only from the pop genre, while the Regional Mexican Albums chart includes information from different genres like duranguense, norteño, banda and mariachi.

instead of this:

The Billboard Top Latin albums chart, published in Billboard magazine, is a chart that features Latin music sales information. This data are complied by Nielsen SoundScan from a sample that includes music stores, music departments at electronics and department stores, internet sales (both physical and via digital downloads) and verifiable sales from concert venues in United States.

As an alternative, look also at (the featured) List of Florida hurricanes, and its sublists, like List of Florida hurricanes (1950–1974). There, they jump straight into the details of the individual time periods, without a boilerplate section. This is accomplished by linking from subsections in the main article. If you did it this way for Gold Gloves, the main article would include brief highlights of the positions, and link to the lists (which then wouldn't even need the boilerplate opening). You might consider adding direct links to the column titles (1B, 2B, etc.) in the chart of all Gold Glove winners (in the main article), so that users can view the lists by position (with the more detailed statistics found there).

So, if you still think it's a bad idea to use something similar to my changes, let's discuss it here. TheFeds 15:55, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I see and accept your rationale, but choose not to use it based on the Silver Slugger lists. The lists of winners are coming; I have not added them because they are not all complete. This is a somewhat unique situation, due to the fact that these are new articles that are born of mergers. The current articles that I haven't touched yet are split by league, so these new ones are replacing those. Because of that, the winners' lists by position for the entire league don't exist yet; the same thing happened with the Silver Slugger lists, and a navbox is forthcoming for this on completion, as it did for the others.

As to linking from sections in the article, that's not practical here because the other positions aren't mentioned throughout the individual articles. I find having award history information available in all of the articles valuable, because who knows if a reader is going to click on "Rawlings Gold Glove Award" and get that information? Some readers may come here from that article and have already read the history, but many come from baseball players' biographies and would therefore lose that valuable info. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 16:13, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

References

Other notable combos

To go with the DP combo table it might be interesting to know (if it's occured) if any batteries (Pitcher/Catcher) or complete outfields have ever won Gold Gloves in a year. Perhaps not notable enough for it's own table, but worth a sentence if it's ever happened. Staxringold _talk^contribs 16:08, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

It would definitely be worth an add-on table if it's happened more than once or twice. I'll research it and check in here in a couple of days. The double-play combos were merged in here from another article, so they were already completed. KV5 (Talk • Phils) 17:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Updating main article

was gong to update main article with info that as of this year, 2011, the outfield nominations have been separated into left, center and right field positions but there's no [edit] link?

justdave49 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Justdave49 (talk • contribs) 20:08, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing.oknazevad (talk) 05:25, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

I've updated the text. How should this be noted in the table? A new table starting in 2011, a footnote for header of each OF column, a footnote for each OF starting in 2011, other?—Bagumba (talk) 07:23, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't think a new table is the right way; maybe that would be okay after a couple of years but I think that it should be a single table for now. Perhaps footnotes on the players indicating their position. — KV5 • Talk • 10:54, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

I've added the footnotes for the players, indicating if they won in LF/CF/RF.—Bagumba (talk) 18:48, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia says from 1957–1960, Gold Gloves were also handed out for specific outfield positions. Given that 2011 (and beyond) did the same thing, how should this be presented in the table aside from current footnotes in 2011? Should we make the columns LF, CF, RF, with a footnote that generic OFs were selected from 1961–2010?—Bagumba (talk) 09:32, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

No, it's more correct to say that they were all outfielders (because all outfielder positions are) and to denote which were selected specifically by position. — KV5 • Talk • 12:43, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

External copyvio

Please note that this article by MLB.com's Bill Ladson violated the copyright of the first sentence of this article (see permalink from prior to the publication of the MLB article). I have notified that author to attribute Wikipedia for taking this text (no word on whether it will actually be done), but copyvio hunters are notified that our version was here first. — KV5 • Talk • 20:41, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

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Comment and question

I think the National League box should appear before the American League box because NL is older than AL.

Pitchers can earn Gold Gloves and Cy Young Awards. I would assume that the second is more prestigious than the first one. Does anybody have any comment in merit, in particular on what it takes to win one or the other?

ICE77 (talk) 06:41, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

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Softball awards

The softball awards were removed as purportedly being WP:COATRACK. I don't agree and thought the talk page was a good place to resolve. My thoughts are as follows:

1. The rationale given was "this page is about the MLB award", but the title does not say this. The article is 'about' whatever the community says it is. Its also noteworthy in the history section the softball is discussed (as well as reference to high school and college awards), so I don't think the simple position that its is only about the MLB award is correct.
2. WP:COATRACK flat out says "Material that is supported by a reliable, published source whose topic is directly related to the topic of the article, is not using the article as a coatrack." The softball awards are given by the same company (Rawlings) and have the same visual appearance as the baseball award so they are directly related. Also, baseball and softball are often approached hand-in-hand, such as how the Olympics decides if baseball and softball are included together. If this were an article about a Wicket-keeper award in cricket I would see the WP:COATRACK point, but not for baseball and softball.
3. WP:COATRACK is an essay. Deletion of this content would violate WP:BIAS, another essay. We need to balance these before just deleting.

In short, I think this is the proper place for the softball gold gloves. If someone thinks that a separate article is appropriate for baseball and softball, then that would be the better approach than wholesale deletion. However, including the female awards for the female version of the male sport, to me, does not run against WP:COATRACK. RonSigPi (talk) 20:03, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

• If the softball topic is notable, create a new page using parenthetical disambiguation. As a current FL, plopping softball into the lead renders most of the prose in the rest of the page ambiguous as to whether it is referring to its history in baseball or softball.—Bagumba (talk) 09:31, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
• Including the "Softball Gold Glove Award" (as described at Rawling's Gold Glove Award page) in this article is as reasonable as including the Platinum Glove award, I think. Given the distinct nature and history of the award, though, it may be better for it to have its own section (also like the Platinum Glove award). isaacl (talk) 14:28, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

I think having its own section is a perfectly reasonable way to go. Avoids the ambiguity that Bagumba mentioned by grouping together, but also gives room for more explanation. RonSigPi (talk) 21:17, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

@Isaacl: I'm not tied to the Platinum award remaining here, but at least it is an award for the same sport.—Bagumba (talk) 07:28, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Gold glove award eric chavez.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:38, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Players in multiple positions in a season

Could someone please add some clarification about players that plays in multiple positions within a season? Which position would he be nominated (most appearances at a position in a season vs. most effective position by least errors or most runs/bases saved)? Nbagigafreak (talk) 22:11, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

Palmeiro won at 1B in 1999 even though he was primarily a DH that year. I'm not aware if any safeguards have since been put in place. If there were, it should be mentioned, esp. since this is an FL.—Bagumba (talk) 01:28, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 27 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Nnadigoodluck███ 08:28, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

---

Rawlings Gold Glove Award → Gold Glove Award – Move per the WP:CONCISE policy. It is more often referred to without the sponsor name. There are 891 indirect links (redirects) to this page, versus 630 directly using "Rawlings".[1] Of those direct links, a lot are piped to "Gold Glove Award", inflating direct links when editors are compelled to go against MOS:NOPIPE. For an independent example, The Dickson Baseball Dictionary has its entry under plain "Gold Glove Award".[2] There are no ambiguity concerns, as no other distinct topics on WP have "Gold Glove" in their title.[3]

This page was moved in 2007 to include "Rawlings" with the rationale The Rawlings Gold Glove Award is a service mark registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark office and is owned by Rawlings Sporting Goods. Rawlings is the sole sponsor.[4] However, WP:COMMONNAME policy as written today says Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title. —Bagumba (talk) 05:08, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

• Support move. This is an obvious COMMONNAME case. O.N.R. ^(talk) 08:58, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Billcasey905 (talk) 09:30, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support One corollary that came to mind is that we almost always name college football bowl games without their corporate sponsorship per COMMON NAME. This seems like a straightforward change to make here, too. Go Phightins! 10:44, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support. It is the COMMONNAME. Egsan Bacon (talk) 15:22, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support Agree with others, it is COMMONNAME. The old name also smacks of COI, even if that was not intended. DoctorJoeE ^{review transgressions}/_{talk to me!} 17:32, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support. The template is simply at "Gold Glove", so this would be WP:CONSISTENT, and "Rawlings" is scarcely included (despite being written on the award). Nohomersryan (talk) 17:37, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support, as it is the common name. I did a couple quick searches on newspapers.com—"Rawlings Gold Glove Award" gets 1,908 hits while "Gold Globe Award" gets 43,200 hits. Dmoore5556 (talk) 00:39, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
• Support per COMMONNAME; it's routinely referred to as just the "Gold Glove Award". Even MLB.com omits in "Rawlings" in pages. Hog Farm _Talk 23:27, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.