Talk:Matthew Flinders

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In one sentence it says 'Australia holds a large collection of statues erected in Flinders' honour, second only in number to statues of Queen Victoria', but that's obviously wrong. Flinders is someone who made great and valuable contributions, but there are obviously many more statues of Jesus and Mary. If the author meant public statues, then this could be clarified. Even then, I'd have my doubts. It needs to be referenced.

I agree with what you are saying and I can't find a reference so I'll delete the bit about second to Queen Victoria. Kerry (talk) 15:06, 8 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]


In this listing Flinders is listed as "Captain RN". Both Matthew Flinders and James Cook never reached the rank of Captain in the Navey - they only reached the rank of Post Captain.By placeing RN after their names you should list there rank as a Navil Officer. --Asitwas (talk) 08:41, 19 February 2012 (UTC) wasn't flinders cat eaten by humans cause they were staving to death and wanted food. Trim went missing, he could have been eaten!--Asitwas (talk) 08:41, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dagedude 01:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)I don't know, but HOLY CHEESECAKES, he is my ancestor, I am Nathan Flinders, living in TX[reply]

Trim is the cat in question and is possibly more famous in Australia than his owner.petedavo 11:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One vote for no. Was taught about Flinders in school, never heard of his cat. -Graham, Sydney, Australia. GraL (talk) 16:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am in sympathy for Dagedude and the loss of his ancestor, Trim. Petedavo must read only children's books if they think a cat more famous than Flinders.

Flinders' occupation, as in the Biography, is more properly; 'Royal Navy Ships Officer'. 'Naval Explorer of Australia' is ludicrous, and description of part of his career only. So i have changed it. He was employed by the Royal Navy to explore New Holland, as the RN described Australia at that time. Flinders was Commissioned command HMS Investigator on 19 January 1801, the name of the vessel being changed by this commission. 15 February 1801, Promoted to rank of Commander. (A Voyage to Terra Australis, Chapter 1.) A Voyage to Terra Australis is not, 'probably the first work on early Australian exploration'. Flinders describes how he collected 'most of the books of voyages to the South Seas' for Investigator's library. 7Mar5ha11 (talk) 18:36, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. I don't believe Graham lives in Sydney. Even I saw the Trim Statue at the Mitchel Library when I visited there in the 70's and was told about Trim when learning about Matthew Flinders as part of grade 7 history in Primary School in Western Australia. Petedavo talk contributions 03:02, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"A bronze statue of Trim by sculptor John Cornwell stands on a window ledge of the Mitchell Library in Macquarie Street, Sydney, Australia; it's directly behind the statue of his master that was erected in 1925 when his grandson donated Flinders' papers to the library. The cat statue, commissioned by the North Shore Historical Society and unveiled in March 1996 by Rear-Admiral David Campbell, is very popular, and the library café is named after Trim."

Anyway Trim has his own wikipedia entry. Petedavo talk contributions 03:02, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The explorer's remains where identified in an excavation underway at Euston Station London — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.171.28.50 (talk) 22:08, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Naming Australia[edit]

This section contains great information. Only one problem - almost all of it doesn't belong here, only the bit that's relevant to Flinders. Very few people would think to look under "Matthew Flinders" to find such an extensive background to the name of the country. So, whatever its quality, the info is probably going to waste here. They might look under Australia, and some of this info is there, but not all of it. That is its spiritual home, not here. JackofOz 12:50, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Matthew Flinders[edit]

Did he die? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.180.205.106 (talk) 08:08, 25 October 2007 (UTC) MF was nearly killed by the governor of Mauritius, when he was caught banging the governor's 15yo daughter. It is now known that this is why he was thrown out of the colony. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.213.63.82 (talk) 08:39, 31 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No mention of wife or family in the Decaen article. Flinders coached the two sons. Perhaps we could have reference. Valetude (talk) 22:58, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Brother Samuel[edit]

Flinders had a brother named Samuel, who served with him as a navigator. If you believe Miriamm Estensen's book, Samuel was was something of a zipperhead. There's probably enough information about brother Samuel to justify an article.Dugong.is.good.tucker (talk) 01:15, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's probably enough information for an article on Trim too. ;-) Hesperian 01:59, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. I'm not stalking you; we must have a lot of shared interests, as the articles you're editing are all on my watchlist. Hesperian 01:59, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Trim[edit]

Trim had 16 references in Miriam Estensen's biography of Flinders. Is there a picture or drawing? If there was a league ladder for well-known, named domestic animals prior to 1805, Trim would be high on the list. Dugong.is.good.tucker (talk) 13:22, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Mitchell Library has posted a lot of info about Trim here http://www.pinterest.com/statelibrarynsw/trim-the-cat/ Petedavo talk contributions 03:00, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

General thoughts[edit]

The more I read this article the more I realise it needs a lot more in-line references added. This is especially true when it comes to the recent deletion of a paragraph regarding Flinders' first usage of the word "Australia". The paragraph is deleted with no explanation when the best result would have been to leave it in place and to add a

tag to the whole article. And that is what I am about to do. --Perry Middlemiss (talk) 22:28, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it because I didn't think it fitted in there, as there is another whole section which covers that below. - 3mta3 (talk) 09:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Date of death[edit]

The lead says 19 July, but the infobox says 18 July. Which is correct? -- JackofOz (talk) 13:03, 12 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

19th July. billinghurst sDrewth 15:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Biography[edit]

'A Voyage to to Terra Australis' is not nearly the first book about exploration in Australia. Flinders describes many works is his text on this subject, the earliest of which seems to be an account of Dirk Hartog's voyage of the Dutch vessel, Endragt, from 1616, which is described in 'Tasman's Instructions'. See 'A Voyage to Terra Australis, Section II'. 7Mar5ha11 (talk) 22:46, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you are after some of these, then we have started hosting them over at Wikisource ... s:Category:Exploration of Australia billinghurst sDrewth 15:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

s:The Life of Captain Matthew Flinders, R.N. available at Wikisource[edit]

Hi all, We are in the very final stages of reproducing The Life of Captain Matthew Flinders with its images in the right places, linked index, and anchors through the work. We invite you to utilise it for your works, and do direct links to the places that you want to be. :-) billinghurst sDrewth 15:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

added Pending-changes protection[edit]

Added light pending changes protection to this page. billinghurst sDrewth 07:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hobby's[edit]

anyone know what he liked —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.95.18.30 (talk) 23:32, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request from Melbamacca, 18 September 2011[edit]

{{edit semi-protected}} Please change "In Victoria, eponymous places include Flinders Street in Melbourne, the suburb of Flinders, the federal electorate of Flinders, and the Matthew Flinders Girls Secondary College in Geelong." to "In Victoria, eponymous places include Flinders Street in Melbourne, the suburb of Flinders, the federal electorate of Flinders, Flinders Christian Community College and the Matthew Flinders Girls Secondary College in Geelong

Source for Flinders Christian Community College: www.flinders.vic.edu.au Melbamacca (talk) 23:54, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see how that specific example adds to encyclopaedic understanding of the topic (ie M Flinders) - if you disagree, please elaborate. For now, this request is not done. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  04:17, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Ushant[edit]

How could he fight in the Battle ofUshant in 1781 if he was born in 1774? IS this verified? Visitor — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.16.220.16 (talk) 13:38, 2 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Indigenous contribution[edit]

I undid a revision from an anonymous IP address regarding indigenous contribution - refer to history. I did this on the basis that Flinders may have indeed been the first human to circumnavigate Australia, is there any evidence of any indigenous circumnavigation? Also, mentioning a native guide is probably not relevant in the header, because you would need to mention his crew who were also of great value. I would think that could be included elsewhere in the discussion. Including in the lead as it was seems to move the article away from the neutral perspective.

As I see it, everyone on board was "first " (unless someone has any evidence of any earlier circumnavigation) and that includes Bungaree who is notable and who ADB says was the first Indigenous person to circumnavigate [1], so I see no reason to mention Bass in the lede for the Tasmanian circumnavigation but not mention Bungaree for the Australian circumnavigation. Yes, there were other crew, but do any of them have Wikipedia articles apart from Flinders and Bungaree? I have changed the article to be clear that Flinders was the leader of the first circumnavigation rather than the "first" person and added Bunagaree in a similar way to Bass. Kerry (talk) 10:05, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia articles about other crew members include John Allen (miner), Robert Brown (Scottish botanist from Montrose), Ferdinand Bauer, Peter Good, Robert Merrick Fowler, John Franklin and William Westall. Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 10:59, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Then we probably should mention them too? And also in HMS Investigator (1801)? and I note that in their individual articles, the word circumnavigation is only mentioned in one of them (Ferdinand Bauer) and that is in reference to accompanying Flinders's circumnavigation (which seems to imply, as written, that Bauer himself did not although everything suggests he did circumnavigate? Am I missing something here? Sure, Flinders was the leader but why aren't the others getting mention in the article body (and probably in the lede) for being on the first circumnavigation? Kerry (talk) 21:47, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Given the article is about Flinders, are the others relevant to the article? I would suggest that perhaps we are crossing two things, ie Matt Flinders and the Circumnavigation, and perhaps all those other people belong in the Circumnavigation article and that it is mentioned here that Flinders was its leader?Jamesbushell.au (talk) 23:45, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are right. The problem is that we don't have an article on the Circumnavigation of Australia. The topic gets discussed here in the Flinders article and in the HMS Investigator (1801) article and forms (part of) the notability claim of both articles (without mentioning any of the other folks). Maybe a new article is warranted. There are many Wikipedia articles that discuss circumnavigation of Australia by all modes of transports (and doubtless with male/female, oldest/youngest and other variations). Kerry (talk) 05:09, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The other thing that vaguely troubles me is "where exactly did the circumnavigation begin and end". When I look at this map, it shows the circumnavigation as the pink line Sydney-to-Sydney, but in terms of Flinders (and perhaps some of his crew), it looks to me like Flinders and the ship had completed a circumnavigation where the pink and blue lines intersect. If so, Bungaree (who joined in Sydney) was not on the first circumnavigation but completed one on arrival at Sydney. Kerry (talk) 05:09, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, I had added some extra names to the list of articles about HMS Investigator that I added several days ago - this bring the tally of articles about members of the expedition whose original compliment was numbered at 88 to seven. Secondly, a quick look at a kindle version of A Voyage to Terra Australis (i.e. the reprint prepared by the State Library of South Australia in 1966) indicates that two indigenous men, Bongaree (sic) and Nanbaree, came aboard the Investigator in July 1802 at Port Jackson. While Nanbaree is not mentioned again, there are several references to Bongaree. It would appear that he continued with the part of the expedition's compliment who decided to return to the UK in the HMS Porpoise (1799), Cato (1800 ship) and Bridgewater in order to obtain a new ship (one of the options suggested by Governor King) after the declaration of the unseaworthiness of the Investigator at Port Jackson during June 1803. A number of people stay in the colony of New South Wales including Robert Brown who return to the UK in about 1805. Thirdly, I support the notion of an article about the circum-navigation as this would assist in tidying up other articles associated with the expedition, i.e. Matthew Flinders and HMS Investigator (1801). Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 05:42, 18 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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School he attended?[edit]

There isn't much agreement in the sources:

  • Boston Grammar School [2]
  • Donington Free School and Horbling Grammar School [3] (named author)
  • Horbling Grammar School [4]
  • Donington Grammar School [5] (named author)
  • Donington Free School (now Thomas Cowley High School) do claim him as one of their students [6]

And there is no way of telling where these sources got their information or which (if any) we might deem reliable. Only two of the sources have a named author, although that may or may not indicate anything. The Australian Dictionary of Biography (the 4th URL) is somewhat fussy about its authors (see [7]) and generally they are reliable but I have found errors in them so not 100% reliable. The level of detail in the 2nd makes me incline towards it and the 3rd and 4th and 5th are somewhat consistent to it ("half the story"). The Boston Grammar claim seems an outlier. Kerry (talk) 22:51, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It seems George Bass, Flinder's partner in exploration, attended Boston Grammar School. Maybe some confusion has crept in because of that? Kerry (talk) 23:06, 5 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Praise for his Atlas[edit]

I believe the Admiralty was overwhelmingly impressed with the Atlas. It might be fitting to record some of the reactions. Valetude (talk) 17:49, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

???[edit]

How long did he serve the British Navy 120.18.11.65 (talk) 05:06, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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