Talk:Walla Walla, Washington

Demographics

The changes to the Demographics section back in November (here) don't seem to be authoritative. I beleive that the edit, and the attemtps tofix it, should be rolled back to the generic section. -Willmcw 23:49, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

As a person living in this town I can assure you that they are factual. The local population is mostly farm workers and illegal workers, and due to there illegal status they can not be counted in any official census as they fear by making themselves known they would then be exported. Belgarath TS 22:30, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

I might be willing to believe that Walla Walla's immigrant population grows to almost 50% at times, however I do take objection to the idea of a large number of them working on mushroom farms... in the 19 years I've lived in Walla Walla, I can't think of a time I've even heard of a mushroom farm in the area. Im.thatoneguy 01:37, 21 February 2005 (PST)

Purple Octopus Scandal

Nothingofwater: I re-reverted the edits I made and attempted t edit them again to better frame them as historical. I hope this is not seen as hostile; I am trying to work within the rules you pointed to, but as these events have already happened and they are an important part of local history I wanted to be sure they are recorded. The references to news stories are just for validation that I'm not making things up, because I was told Wikipedia liked references. 71.231.80.153 (talk)

Two things: 1. The wording of the section doesnt make the events more or less historical. 2. This is not an important part of the history of the town. This is a current event or news event that bears little influence or impact on the history of Walla Walla. You should read the guidelines at the Wikipedia 'Recentism' page. Specifically the part that deals with "Articles overburdened with documenting controversy as it happens...". This content may be appropriate for the Wikinews page, though. See also: Wikipedia:Notability (events). I'm tagging the 'purple octopus' section as recentism, per the guidelines, but will wait for concensus on this page before re-deleting. AS for me - I vote DELETE. Nothingofwater (talk) 16:32, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

With all due respect , unless you live in this town I do not feel that you are qualified to say that "This is not an important part of the history of the town". A large majority of the towns people disagreed with the city council, and historical evidence suggests is not the first time the Walla Walla City Council has been caught in scandal based on the data I have; I feel removing this data would violate NPOV as the current article is not even written in NPOV, its like an advertisement and is not balanced or neutral, and this addition provides more balance. 71.231.80.153 (talk)

Trying not to bite here, but by your very words you have proven my point. An event that only has relevence to the people who live in Walla Walla is by definition *not* what is supposed to be included in Wikipedia. One of the very items cited as non-relevent are such things as city council minutes, etc. Your statements above indicate that you clearly have a personal investment in this issue (either simply as a resident of Walla Walla, or as someone involved inthe contraversy); which only underlines the irony of citing NPOV. To be brief, this trivial 'event' will in no way appreciably alter or even affect the history or character of Walla Walla. I ask other editors here to jump in and lend some perspective to the discussion. Nothingofwater (talk) 04:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I live in Seattle and do not live in this town. No conflict of interest exists for me, but with all due respect I admit to wondering if you do live in the area and thus could be against this addition due to conflict of interest of your own. I'm interested in these historical events because they share elements with other higher profile scandals that ARE documented very well on Wikipedia. Surely if they are allowed to be documented, these can be as well. 71.231.80.153 (talk)

OK then - good to hear. Let's stick to the facts. I maintain that when taken in relation to the entire history of this town, these events aren't significant enough to include in this article. I am unaware of any high-profile scandals in Walla Walla, related or otherwise. If it's the scandal only (independent of the town's history) that needs documenting, then a seperate article outlining the whole 'purple octopus' affair would be in order, with a mention and a link on the Walla Walla page. Nothingofwater (talk) 21:02, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Additionally I have copies of legal documents that were provided to the public that support some of these events as having "happened" with events from several months ago as being referenced as initial events. That's not really considered current event, so in my mind while some of the more recent items may be less historical due to recentness, the founding events that sparked this issue are historical due to the time-line and as such the more current events are historically relevant. I would love to provide a copy of the original citation to Wikipedia hat shows things happened over a month ago for historical reference, as it is publicly available to any who can do a google search, but uploads are denied. 71.231.80.153 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:42, 22 October 2010 (UTC).

Again, I advise you to please do some reading on what Wikipedia is *not*. You have stated here that you are in posession of 'legal documents' which prove your claims, but this also is explicitly rejected as a source. From Wikipedia:No original research, "Wikipedia does not publish original research. The term "original research" refers to material—such as facts, allegations, ideas, and stories—not already published by reliable sources. It also refers to any analysis or synthesis of published material to advance a position not advanced by the sources." Nothingofwater (talk) 04:44, 22 October 2010 (UTC),

For whatever reason, You have the wrong assumptions about me and these events. Lets look at the facts, please. Research is not my own. These are documents provided and published by reputable third party sources, and as you have just stated this is explicitly allowed on Wikipedia, as they are not original research by me. In this case the sources include the very same city council the events surround, third party legal councils fact finding, and reputable news outlets that are the main source of news for the area. This also includes photographic evidence from cameras covering the street and showing protest marches, among other forms of factual evidence that are all considered reputable enough to be deemed not only allowed in court, but considered indisputable evidence in such a proceeding based on my admittedly non-perfect knowledge of the law. I humbly ask that you re-consider your incorrect assumptions about my intentions, and continue to let us work together within wikipedias rules as I have attempted to do so, without letting anger or bias get in the way. Thanks. 71.231.80.153 (talk)

I must have misunderstood - when you stated you were in posession of unspecified 'legal documents' that supported your opinion (without citing them), it sounded like OR to me. My apologies. Regardless, the heart of the matter here is not 'Did these events happen or not?' - Rather it is 'Are these events noteworthy as part of Walla Walla's history?'. I still maintain that it isnt. Re-read the history section of this article, and see that there are no other city-council squabbles mentioned. If it doesnt belong in the history section, then it doesnt belong in the article - Wikipedia isnt about blogging on current events. Nothingofwater (talk) 21:02, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Geography needs expansion

Would someone who knows the area well add more information about some of the geographical features of the town, e.g., the names of the brooks and canals, the kinds of soils and rocks the town was built upon, the earthquake activity it gets exposed to, the relative humidity levels (these can be added to the excellent weather table), the pollen and pollution kinds and levels, and so forth, wherever information is available? ~PSYB~ (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:53, 21 August 2009 (UTC).

Magic:TG

As somebody who was one of these 'testers' I don't think its fair that Professor Garfield gets all the credit for the creation of the game in this article. A lot of people - including myself - where involved in the creation of this game and as unfair as it may or may not be that this guy ran off with all the money, fame, etc from the work we did to create it, I still think Wikipedia should place truth above it all. I don't feel that the article is correct, and as such I will be adding a "article disputed" tag to the article until this is fixed. Belgarath TS (talk) 20:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

I inserted a "this section is in dispute" tag at the appropriate place in the article, and removed the more general "this article is in dispute". I gather that the section regarding the trading game is all that is disputed, not the entire article. Nothingofwater (talk) 22:44, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

That is fine, I just wanted it known that this was disputed and tried my best to do it in the most respectful manner possible. Belgarath TS (talk) 21:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Looking at the specific concern, - that the game testers werent given credit when the creation of the game was mentioned in this article - i have to say i'm not sure that this is the right place for it. This article is about the town, not the game; and those interested in the game will likely look at the game's article.

Having said that, let me propose the following. Part 1: We reduce the mention of M:tG in the Walla Walla article to something like, "The trading card game Magic: The Gathering was created at Whitman College during the 1993 school year." If we want to add the name of Richard Garfield (only because his is the principle name associated with the game, and it isnt the place to name everyone), then that would be OK, too. Either way, it's left deliberately vague enough that no one can say they are being 'left out'. Part 2: Looking over the game's article, and specifically the history part of it, none of this is mentioned. I have already added the following to the beginning of the 'History' section of that article: "Dr. Richard Garfield, the creator of the game, was a professor at Whitman College in 1993. He worked in his spare time with local volunteer playtesters to help refine the game during the 1993 school year." If there are any issues with the wording of that, it really should be on the talk page for the game, where people with more background in the game can arrive at a more informed consensus.

I am hoping this satisfies all claims, but I'll wait for responses before making changes to this article, and removing the tag. Nothingofwater (talk) 00:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Havent heard anything yet. Unless I hear some kind of protest or opinions otherwise - I'll go ahead and make proposed changes tomorrow. Nothingofwater (talk) 17:09, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Done. I moved the note from the Agriculture section (I am a creative guy, but have a hard time imagining how it fits with agriculture), and put it in the trivia section. I also moved the note about the sister city at the same time. Nothingofwater (talk) 20:15, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Well handled - Williamborg (Bill) 21:46, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I would argue that claiming "The trading card game Magic: The Gathering was created at Whitman College during the 1993 school year." is a bit of an overstatement. As cited in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Garfield#Education_and_career the game had already been in development by the time Professor Garfield came to Whitman. How about changing it to: "The trading card game Magic: The Gathering was play tested at Whitman College during the 1993 school year." Or maybe even "Early versions of the trading card game..." And to further stir the hornets nest, is a town hosting play testers for a game (even Magic) really notable? Coxwal (talk) 05:40, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Little things

Uhh yeah, the winter is too cold and the summers are too hot and dry for anyone to want to farm mushrooms here.

Also, I removed the word "volcanic" from the description of the valley's soil, as it is not volcanic. The soil is very fertile but is not volcanic, or actually "native," so to speak, to the area: some was blown into the area by the wind, and some was carried in by massive floods.

The soil is volcanic because of the Flood basalts — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.85.26.65 (talk) 00:41, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Noteworthy Residents

Added Eric O'flaherty to the list of noteworthy residents he was added to the Mariners roster tuesday 8/16/06 [1]

lame

This article reads like a tourist guide. Everett3 18:15, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

This article is a tourist guide. It was probably created by some city official or business owner.

Please improve it then. Pfly 08:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Mention in popular culture

According to the Manual of Style, "Mention in popular culture" sections should not be included in WP articles. Unless I hear otherwise, I'm going to remove the "Mention in popular culture" section from the main article and add it to the talk page in 1 week. Jacobko 15:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

After hearing no objections, I've removed the "Mention in popular culture" section from the main page. If you have any questions or comments, please list them here before moving the section back! --Jacobko 16:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

• The Offspring have a song called "Walla Walla" about going to the State Penitentiary located in Walla Walla. One of the lines reads "I'll see you in...Walla Walla". It can be found on their album Americana.
• The film "Stakeout," with Emilio Estevez, includes a lengthy conversation about criminals who did time in Walla Walla's state penetentiary.
• The film "Dancer in the Dark," with Björk, ends with the main character on death row at the Walla Walla penetentiary.
• In A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court[2] (1949) Bing Crosby's character says "Walla Walla, Washington" along with other funny place names like "Saskatoon, Saskatchewan" to "make" the sun disappear.
• The "Looney Tunes" series has also mentioned this town in a couple of its episodes; "Wishie-Washie-White-Washing Machine Salesman from Walla Walla Washington", or "The Little Giant Vacuum Clear Company, Walla Walla, Washington". In one episode, Bugs Bunny uses it as a magic word to transform a vampire.
• Comedian George Carlin uses the city's name in his Wonderful Wino skit; "Wonderful WINO, in western Walla Walla".
• In the Pogo comic, a spoof of "Deck the Halls" contains the lyric: "Walla Walla, Wash., and Kalamazoo."
• In Captain Underpants and the Wrath of the Wicked Wedgie Woman, reporters are stationed in Walla Walla. The city is also a base for the company that manufactures the 3-D Hypno-Ring.
• In the Three Stooges episode Cash and Carry, the trio uses a map of Walla Walla to dig for treasure, inadvertently breaching the fictional Walla Walla Federal Depository.
• The book "Headlock" by Edgar Award winning author Burl Barer takes place primarily in Walla Walla, Washington. Barer was a resident of Walla Walla when he wrote this novel. It was the best selling book in Walla Walla during the first year of its publication, according to Amazon.com, outselling Harry Potter.
• Mentioned in an episode of the Disney Channel series Hannah Montana entitled "Oops! I Meddled Again". Hannah Montana receives a fan e-mail from a fan who lives in Walla Walla Washington.
• In an episode of the PBS cartoon Arthur, Dora Winnifred (DW) asks, "Walla Walla? Where's Walla Walla? What's Walla Walla Walla Walla?"
• In The Simpsons episode entitled "Homie the Clown," Walla Walla is one of the so-called ridiculous city names listed by Krusty the Clown during a class at clown college. Seattle is also listed.
• In the comic strip Zits, Jeremy exults that his favorite band's new CD, "Gingivitis Live in Walla Walla," has just reached number seventeen on the charts.

I think you need to reread the MOS section you cited, as it says in the first sentence under "Guidance:"

Do not simply remove such sections; instead, find ways to improve the article so that this form of organization is no longer necessary. It may be possible to integrate some items into the article text.

Especially for a relatively small town with relatively modest article content, I think notable popular culture references are perfectly good content, as they illustrate what influence the place has had on culture (for whatever reason). This wouldn't make sense for Seattle or Los Angeles etc., but I think it does for smaller locations. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 18:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

In case anybody cares: The town is mentioned in the lyrics of "It's a Beautiful Day for a Ballgame." See: Baseball's Greatest Hits WHPratt (talk) 17:02, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

References

Agriculture involves M:tG?

I think that the Agriculture part should either be renamed or the non-Agriculture parts be moved. This includes the bit about M:tG and the twinning cities thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sawbladex (talk • contribs) 17:06, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Terms coined in Walla Walla?

The article claims that Wallans... Walla Wallians... whatever... residents of Walla Walla coined the term, "Place so nice they named it twice.". The author has obvious never been to New York, New York, where the term actually seems to have been coined. Eitherway, there is no proof of claim. I say we pitch it.

supersoulty (talk) 02:05, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

You beat me to it, friendo. I'd say "New York, New York" has the Walla Walla beat by about 200-300 years. Some people need to get out more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.49.30.128 (talk) 16:05, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

The same person said it about both places! CodeHitchhiker (talk) 06:43, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Yea some people do, because the term Walla Walla comes from the Native American tribe in the area, so I'd say they beat New York since they were the Walla Walla since before New York was even New Amsterdam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.85.69.194 (talk) 05:28, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Request: Soaring Stones

Unresolved

I am hoping someone near Walla Walla may be able to take a photograph of the sculpture Soaring Stones outside Cordiner Hall on the Whitman College campus. Thanks for your consideration. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 19:01, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

History section

Eight paragraphs dedicated to the first contact and affairs of pre-foundation Walla Walla is excessive and does not bode well for the development of the article. CodeHitchhiker, I would highly suggest writing in Summary style instead of trying to be overly detailed; that can be saved for a spinoff article like History of Walla Walla, Washington. SounderBruce 06:40, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

I've started History of Walla Walla, Washington and am working on summarizing and moving content. CodeHitchhiker (talk) 17:46, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

It is hard to read "Walla Walla history began in 1806 …." Surely things of note happened centuries before Lewis & Clark showed up. Easier to say/read "Walla Walla written history began in 1806" or " In 1806, the Lewis & Clark expedition made its first contact with the indigenous communities of the area that became Walla Walla."

Even Stonehenge is getting more "history" in the 21st century as we mortals become more knowledgeable.

Dconn25 73.158.108.140 (talk) 20:13, 23 September 2023 (UTC)