Talk:Cotton Club

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This article was the subject of an educational assignment in 2013 Q1. Further details were available on the "Education Program:St. John's University/Discover New York 570 (Spring 2013)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2021 and 14 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bella.kennebrae.

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Terrible Stylistic Problems[edit]

Whoever composed this article marshaled his/her facts, but his grammar and style is semi-literate. The overall tone of the piece screams "My essay on The Cotton Club," by little Johnny, 12 years old. Examples:

"What Ellington contributed to the Cotton Club is priceless and is summed up perfectly in this 1937 New York Times excerpt" -- presented without comment.
After a sentence about the high incomes of the performers at the club, this sentence: "Nonetheless, the club also helped launch the careers of Fletcher Henderson..." Nonetheless? Where is the apposition?
This run on masterpiece: "The club not only gave Ellington national exposure through radio broadcasts originating there (first through WHN, then over WEAF and after September 1929 through the NBC Red Network - WEAF was the flagship station for that network - on Fridays)..." There are MANY more like this.
Non sequitur: "The club was closed temporarily in 1936 after the race riot in Harlem the previous year. Photographer Carl Van Vechten vowed to boycott the club for having such racist policies in place." The Cotton Club was racist, but the first sentence does not support the inference of the second, and there's no other supporting evidence nearby to justify the conclusion.

I could continue, but it's hardly worth it. The whole thing is a disaster, cribbed by an illiterate from the work of somebody only an inch higher on the tree. This whole page should be deprecated for style, and probably for plagiarism. Sir Huddleston Fuddleston (talk) 06:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled[edit]

Is there lots of other nightclubs besides the one in New York City and the one mentioned in Portland, Oregon? if there is, make a disambiguation page.

There was also Cotton Club soda, interestingly. I bought it solely on the basis of price, which was a miserly 50 cents for a 20 oz. bottle about five years ago. I think that's the last time I heard of it. -Litefantastic 23:26, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

well you see the cotton club is a badd thing

Citations[edit]

The sources for this article, the bulk of which was added on December 14, 2004, appear to be primarily the first three pages that come up when you do a Google search for "cotton club" AND Harlem. The first one that comes up is the entry on the Cotton Club that I wrote for The Encyclopedia of the the Harlem Renaissance (Routledge, 2004), which the publisher made available online as a promotional sample entry; the Wikipedia article borrows heavily from this source for both its basic information and for its sentence structure, and it crosses over into plagiarism/copyright violation in several places (see the sentences on "celebrity night," the "tall, tan, and terrific" chorus girls, and the development of Duke Ellington's orchestral style).

The second source is a piece on the Cotton Club from the website for the Ken Burns film, Jazz, itself reprinted from and credited to the New Grove Dictionary of Jazz. The third source is a set of reminiscences on the Harlem club scene by Murray Pfeffer. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theviper (talk • contribs) 03:11, 1 June 2006

Citation problems[edit]

The first reference [(The Cotton Club, 1)] has been removed. (1) It is unclear which "Cotton Club" item it refers to. There are two "Cotton Club" items in the references at the bottom of the page. Which item is the reference? (2) It gives a presumed page number, 1. Would this be the traditional text reference among the two Cotton Club articles? The other reference cites an ezine. Would this be it? (3) If it is from an ezine, the ezine is defunct, as the quote turns up in a web search no ezine using this quote. (4) The text in reference itself has a serious typo in "Club,": "The COTTON ClUB". The source line contributes nothing but unresolved confusion, so I have removed it.Dogru144 (talk) 09:51, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Factual error in 'cotton club'[edit]

This Cotton Club bio mentions that the club was originally opened by Jack Johnson in 1920 who then sold it to gangster Owney Madden in 1923, who renamed it the Cotton Club.

Jack Johnson was a fugitive from the US from 1913 until his return on July 20, 1920. Upon his return Jack was taken into custody and thereupon sentenced in September 1920 to a year and a day at Leavenworth. All this is in Wikis Jack Johnson bio and elsewhere. He was released in mid 1921.

I can't see how Jack could have purchased the club in 1920. I don't think he was ever a free man in the US that year.

I don't know whether this colorful story came from Madden's bio or not but it sounds a bit wobbly and it's definitely wrong in the detail of Jack purchasing the club in 1920.

Regards,

Mark Stapleton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.101.18.40 (talk) 08:30, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Robinson?[edit]

The second paragraph says, "Stark also agreed to pay Robinson $3,500 a week..." but it is not clear who "Robinson" is. Maybe Paul Robeson is meant? Maybe Bill "Bojangles" Robinson? Can someone clarify this? Marvin W. Hile (talk) 17:23, 27 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Herman Stark obituary[edit]

One possible secondary source for this article is Herman Stark's obituary in the New York Times. --GentlemanGhost (talk) 17:36, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

in Harlem?[edit]

Per the article the club was located at...

"...Broadway and Forty-eight Street, where Broadway and Seventh Avenue meet – an important midtown crossroads, and in the heart of the Great White Way, the Broadway Theater District."

How does that locate it in Harlem? The Wikipedia article on Harlem itself does not have Harlem nearly that far south. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.149.64.65 (talk) 15:17, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Colorism, Segregation, and the Prohibition[edit]

Why are segregation and colorism discussed more deeply in this article? The performers weren't allowed through the front entrance, and the club was a whites-only establishment are details glossed over. Also, the context of the club existing in the heart of the prohibition movement is another important detail to the existence of The Cotton Club.

SophieBelatrix (talk) 19:21, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Are you missing a "not" in your question? If you have encyclopedic sources that you can cite for the above claims, then Wikipedia:Be bold and Wikipedia:Do it yourself. If you need help, either with sourcing or formatting, then the talk page is an appropriate place to ask for specific help. But the above note is particularly helpful, perhaps try a "X should be changed to Y" format? JesseRafe (talk) 18:01, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Article says, "Eventually, responding to Ellington's request, the club slightly relaxed its policy of segregation." I submit that "eventually" and "slightly relaxed" are so vague as to be almost useless. There is a linkless citation to this sentence, to wit: "New York Times, 1974." I can't think of any explanation for such a citation other than that it was made up out of whole cloth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BC65:5479:FD7D:C8D7:CEE4:7B0E (talk) 12:50, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]