Talk:Great Seal of the United States

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Who came up with E Pluribus Unum?[edit]

I am confused of the actual provenance of E Pluribus Unum. From Walter Isaacson's biography of Benjamin Franklin, page 315, right before the section "Meeting Lord Howe Again", 'Franklin's proposal was to have the motto E Pluribus Unum on the front and an ornate scene on the reverse of Pharoah being engulfed by the Red Sea with the phrase "Rebellion to Tyrants is obedience to God."'

In the second paragraph of "First committee" in this article, it describes the Exodus scene as being Franklin's creation, but not E Pluribus Unum.

The E pluribus unum article says that the motto was suggested by Pierre Eugene du Simitiere. So we have two conflicting accounts. Does anyone have concrete evidence as to who is right? The page greatseal.com was used as a reference for that article, and indeed an excerpt from the Book The Eagle and the Shield included in https://www.greatseal.com/committees/firstcomm/index.html indicates that it was Pierre who came up with the motto. I read the passage from the actual book , and it seems that this conviction is made by the author, Richard Patterson, but until I see a primary source saying it was Pierre who came up with it, I'm not convinced.

Everyone agrees that the motto first appeared on the title page of the annual volume for 1731 of the London magazine the Gentleman's Magazine. I agree with this page, which notes that Franklin’s life as a publisher would have made him very familiar to the magazine. It seems less likely to me that Pierre, who was born in 1737, raised in Geneva and spent time in the West Indies and New York, would have seen a motto published 6 years before he was born in a country he did not spend significant time in. Wackomode41 (talk) 12:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay I think I was wrong about the motto only appearing on the 1731 volume. It seems to have been published during the 1770s as well, which makes it more likely that Pierre could have read it. Still, I think sans concrete evidence that Pierre came up with it, I think it more likely that Franklin did, considering how well-read he was and his familiarity with publishing and London. https://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/unumflowers.html Wackomode41 (talk) 13:01, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]