Talk:Silver Line (MBTA)

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Map overlaps ToC

On my desktop browser (Safari, OS-X up to date), The route map partially overlaps the table of contents. Any suggestions?--agr (talk) 15:23, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk) 20:32, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the Silver Line travels through the Ted Williams Tunnel, but wasn't a hit with Boston riders? Source: see the Criticism section, particularly this source cited in the article.

• Reviewed: WEBY
• Comment: It's a stupid joke - Ted Williams was known for his hitting ability.

Improved to Good Article status by Pi.1415926535 (talk). Self-nominated at 06:16, 16 May 2020 (UTC).

• Lean more into the controversy. The hook as-is doesn't spark too much interest. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 11:28, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that a state representative called Boston's Silver Line buses racial discrimination, owing to their poor service compared to the light rail line they replaced?

ALT2 ... that although Boston's Silver Line was designed to quickly replace the Washington Street Elevated line, it took fifteen years for service to the area to resume?

ALT3 ... that the Silver Line's South Boston Piers Transitway was one of the most expensive bus rapid transit projects in the world?

@Pi.1415926535 and Vami IV: Any of these work? The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 00:33, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I like Alt1 and Alt3. –♠Vami_IV†♠ 01:33, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm okay with ALT1 or ALT3. ALT2 isn't really accurate - there was still bus service on route 49 from 1987 to 2002. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:38, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

• Full review needed. (Original hook and ALT2 struck.) BlueMoonset (talk) 23:40, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• Full review: GA received within 7 days of nomination. New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. Images are freely licensed. I find ALT3 difficult to read because of all the capitalized words. Regarding ALT1, I changed the racial discrimination phrase in the article to the way it's written in the source: "discrimination against people of color", so I suggest writing it that way in the hook too:
• ALT1a: ... that a state representative called Boston's Silver Line buses "discrimination against people of color", owing to their poor service compared to the light rail line they replaced?
• ALT1a hook ref verified and cited inline. QPQ done. ALT1a good to go. Yoninah (talk) 23:39, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Disputed value in infobox

Our lead says the Silver Line is branded as bus rapid transit, a term that is well defined at its own Wikipedia page. On our Silver Line page, we use an infobox whose service_type parameter contains the value Bus rapid transit (disputed). After I removed "(disputed)" from that parameter, Pi.1415926535 restored it with the edit summary, not a joke at all - there's an entire cited section about the dispute.

This apparently alludes to subsection 3.2.3 Indirect routing, about a now-resolved controversy involving Silver Line's access to a single ramp operated by the Massachusetts Department of Transportation. That historical controversy does not dispute the Silver Line's overall service type as rapid transit.

The template we use, Template:Infobox Bus transit, redirects to Template:Infobox bus company, which in turn prescribes values for the service_type parameter. Under the Description column, we find Bus or coach or express; the Example column cites Bus. There is no reason to infer from this that we should amend the service_type parameter to include "(disputed)" when the dispute in question pertains not to Silver Line's designation as a bus rapid transit system, but to a single ramp along its route.

Accordingly, I request consensus to remove "(disputed)" from the service_type parameter. NedFausa (talk) 20:01, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

No, that refers to the subsection "BRT quality", which contains five paragraphs discussing the lack of BRT features across the entire system, cited to sources that explicitly argue that the Silver Line is not BRT. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:12, 13 July 2020 (UTC)

Ongoing Edit Dispute: The Silver Line isn't a subway

For the past couple days I've been attempting to remove the Silver Line from the MBTA subway article and List of MBTA subway stations, but people keep reverting it. I shall respectfully ask for consensus because the Silver Line is definitely not a subway service, and these articles misleadingly call it bus rapid transit when it isn't even that: it's never been anything more than a bus with fancy branding. Though it's painted the same thickness as the four rapid transit lines on the subway map, the T's website has only and always put the Silver Line's schedules with the bus schedules. Additionally, our own Template:MBTA puts the Silver Line in the bus section, and Template:MBTA Subway Stations excludes the Silver Line. I am doing this because the Silver Line's continued inclusion in the subway club here has literally confused the Guinness World Records: when defining the terms for an acquaintance of mine's upcoming T subway speedrun, they included the surface bus stops despite that making no sense under the record rules. In conclusion, the Silver Line does not deserve to be inconsistently called rapid transit here. Thank you for your consideration.

World Metro (talk) 06:32, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

There is definitely a lot of disagreement over this in real life and it does stretch back many years. Your viewpoint is also already presented in the criticism section. The problem is that you are making these changes based on your opinion without presenting any sources whatsoever. If you can add reliable sources as part of this discussion that back-up your viewpoint then I think we'd have a good starting point. Bottom line is we have to present the information as it's listed in reliable sources. If the Guinness Book folks are confused, then that's quite embarrassing for them not Wikipedia. Grk1011 (talk) 14:13, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Wikipedia is not for righting great wrongs. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia is a summary of information from reliable sources. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:19, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

OK. For what it's worth, here's my research on the history of the T's official position on the matter. The Beginner's Guide to the Subway says "There are four main subway lines—the Green, Blue, Orange, and Red lines—with 125 stops throughout the region." and "The Silver Line is listed alongside train routes sometimes, but it's actually a bus! Some Silver Line stops are underground and use fare gates, just like subway stations."[1] This implies the Silver Line is separate from the subway system. The Beginner's Guide to the Bus similarly says "You might be confused to find the Silver Line listed with train routes sometimes, but it's actually a bus! Technically, it's a bus rapid transit system, which means part of its route is on its own dedicated lane or road."[2]

I also mentioned the schedules sections of the T's website: currently the Silver Line is exclusively in the bus section, with no mention of it in the subway section.[3][4] As far back as 2002, the Silver Line has consistently been listed with bus schedules.[5] As a counterexample, the 2007 version of the website had it in both bus and subway, only linking to the subway schedule pdf.[6][7][8] By 2017, the Silver Line's subway page linked to a bus schedule pdf.[9][10] Finally, in the 2018 version of the website, the Silver Line was removed entirely from the subway section, as it remains to this day.[11][12]

With the rest of the T's website now agreeing with my viewpoint, there is only one remaining official counterexample: that the Silver Line is painted as if it were a line on the subway map itself.[13] The MassDOT Rapid Transit GIS layer begrudgingly includes the Silver Line with this disclaimer: "It should be noted that the Silver Line actually consists of buses, not trains, but the line is included in this layer because the MBTA includes it as one of the color-coded lines on its subway system map."[14]

On final notes, the revered Changes to Transit Service in the MBTA District covers the Silver Line as a subsection of the bus.[15] I hope you will take these all into consideration. World Metro (talk) 04:53, 9 February 2024 (UTC)