Talk:John Maron

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Untitled[edit]

Regarding this excerpt:

Noted teacher and preacher, he explained Catholic dogma to the Council of Chalcedon,

I don't think someone born in the seventh century could have explained anything to a council that took place in the fifth century. Did you have another council in mind? Wesley 02:52 May 2, 2003 (UTC)

Actually, considering the schism of the time and place, it is very likely that he was explaining the council mentioned.

Template[edit]

He wasn't all that important overall as a saint. He is high importance to Syria in my opinion, at least that part of the countries history. And defenitly TOP important to Syriac Christanity as the founder of the Maronite chuch, a branch of Syriac Christanity. I've edited accordingly. FinalWish 03:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Date[edit]

Are we sure that he was made Patriarch in 685 and not two years later in 687? The later date seemsthe more accurate one as far a church legalities go and considering the other people involved. The Pope that approved him did not become Pope until 687 and the Patriarch of Antioch did not die until 687 for there to be a vacancy.

"Prince Eugene of France"[edit]

This passage, which is just taken verbatim from the stjohnmaron.org site, makes no sense:

"Prince Eugene of France, with his French colony in Antioch urged the Apostolic Delegate to consecrate John Maron..."

There wasn't really any such place as "France" in the 680s AD, and "Eugene" doesn't look anything like the name of Merovingian royalty? Was there a community of Franks living in Antioch at the time? Who exactly is this person? --Jfruh (talk) 16:32, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It does seem likely that whomever wrote that text made some kind of transcription error. Anyway, using it verbatim is a copyright violation. Definitely need some real citations here. --Esprqii (talk) 20:09, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
While this material has been removed, we now have this:
His paternal grandfather, Prince Alidipas, was the nephew of Carloman, a Frankish Prince, and governed Antioch.
Carolman is at least vaguely plausible as a name for a 7th cenutry Frank, though probably not a Merovingian. No idea who Alidipas might be -- the only Wikipedia hit for him is this page -- or why a Frank would be governing Antioch. --Jfruh (talk) 02:20, 7 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious Information[edit]

This entire article cites dubious sources and laughable information for a supposed history entry. It requires substantial rewriting and fact checking.

recent edits response to Jim's request of my justifications[edit]

Yes, Jim I removed that material for the following reasons: 1) it was irrelevant to the topic section in which it was posted, which was on St. John Maron's elevation to Patriarch, 2) was controversial speculative and contentious, as well as being impossible to defend on historical grounds, for the reasons why see the wiki page on the Mardaites (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mardaites) and 3) confused a couple of facts making what was being asserted not only irrelevant, contentious and speculative but also simply unclear. I hope to return in the future to clean up all the sections and bring more fullness to the whole article. However, I thought, at least, for the time being that I would remove the most problematic content.

I also made changes to the section above it (St. John Maron's early life), deleting the last couple of sentences. I did this because 1) it was inaccurate (until St. John Maron became its first Patriarch there was no Maronite church and 2) outside of any factual errors the general content of the information was actually the subject of the next section on St. John Maron's elevation to the status of Patriarch, so the errors of fact aside it was also just redundant.

Basically my changes amounted to simplifying the sections while removing irrelevant, contentious, unsupported, redundant or ambiguous information. This whole page could use some work which as I suggested I hope to return to accomplish in the upcoming weeks... It also seemed clear that the information I removed were later additions to the article which were added, ostensibly, for polemical reasons. So I would further suggest that if future authors would like to introduce any controversies then another section be added that deals specifically with the various positions that have been taken on questions of Orthodoxy of the early Maronite community.

Finally, if the material I removed were restored than the two sections would blatantly contradict each other since section on St. John Maron's early life defended his Orthodoxy while the extraneous information in the section on his Patriarchy asserted he held heterodox beliefs. Consequently, new material would have to be added that would then attempt to reconcile the information in the two sections. At the very least this information would essentially constitute the new section on various controversies concerning the early Maronite community I suggested above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:ED47:AF00:B8A6:46B4:30CE:D595 (talk) 22:17, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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